Lab being a weirdo
Discussion
Our Lab is the most sensitive dog in the world - if he has a bad experience with something he will NEVER forget it. He is scared of pretty much everything, including the sound of running water because once there was a loud noise while the tap was running 
We've had loads of dogs before, each with their own foibles but never anything even close to this! We don't make a fuss if something happens and we act as calm around him as possible. If he's ever naughty I correct him in the gentlest possible way, never shout or pull on the lead or anything. But that doesn't seem to help - he's still getting worse and ducks for cover at the slightest noise.
He had one really great feature - he used to absolutely love other dogs. His doggy body language was the best I've ever seen. He never bullied or harassed other dogs and he always knew whether they were being friendly or not.
But then he got bitten twice by Staffies, a few months apart
. Once of the lead at the park, he went up to another dog to say hello and it bit his side and wouldn't let go despite our dog screaming and acting submissive. Second time on the lead - this was the worst because the staffy acted really friendly and had good body language, they were sniffing each other, everything was fine - and then it snapped and bit our Lab's neck with absolutely no warning .
Now when he sees another dog he still gets excited and is desperate to go and play - but as soon as they're face-to-face you can see him stiffen up, hackles start rising and a couple of times he has actually snapped and snarled/bitten at the air (I don't know if he would actually bite the other dogs but I never gave him a chance to try).
This happens on the lead, or off the lead if he feels cornered. He goes for runs in a big open field and never has any issues there, probably because he knows he can run away.
We're pretty convinced he has some kind of hyper-sensitivity issue, whether mental or physical. Sometimes the wrong kind of noise, or touching him in the wrong place (usually around his chest/tummy) can literally make him squeal with terror and curl up on the floor. He has been checked by a few vets and nothing has ever been found - looking at him, you'd think he is the picture of health!
Looking for any advice/ideas for increasing his confidence or if anyone else has experienced something similar? We have tried a thunder-vest which made no difference.
Also how on earth do you re-socialise a dog like this? We can't just let him meet random dogs because he'll start a fight. I don't fancy 8 more years of crossing the road every time there's another dog
We've had loads of dogs before, each with their own foibles but never anything even close to this! We don't make a fuss if something happens and we act as calm around him as possible. If he's ever naughty I correct him in the gentlest possible way, never shout or pull on the lead or anything. But that doesn't seem to help - he's still getting worse and ducks for cover at the slightest noise.
He had one really great feature - he used to absolutely love other dogs. His doggy body language was the best I've ever seen. He never bullied or harassed other dogs and he always knew whether they were being friendly or not.
But then he got bitten twice by Staffies, a few months apart
. Once of the lead at the park, he went up to another dog to say hello and it bit his side and wouldn't let go despite our dog screaming and acting submissive. Second time on the lead - this was the worst because the staffy acted really friendly and had good body language, they were sniffing each other, everything was fine - and then it snapped and bit our Lab's neck with absolutely no warning .Now when he sees another dog he still gets excited and is desperate to go and play - but as soon as they're face-to-face you can see him stiffen up, hackles start rising and a couple of times he has actually snapped and snarled/bitten at the air (I don't know if he would actually bite the other dogs but I never gave him a chance to try).
This happens on the lead, or off the lead if he feels cornered. He goes for runs in a big open field and never has any issues there, probably because he knows he can run away.
We're pretty convinced he has some kind of hyper-sensitivity issue, whether mental or physical. Sometimes the wrong kind of noise, or touching him in the wrong place (usually around his chest/tummy) can literally make him squeal with terror and curl up on the floor. He has been checked by a few vets and nothing has ever been found - looking at him, you'd think he is the picture of health!
Looking for any advice/ideas for increasing his confidence or if anyone else has experienced something similar? We have tried a thunder-vest which made no difference.
Also how on earth do you re-socialise a dog like this? We can't just let him meet random dogs because he'll start a fight. I don't fancy 8 more years of crossing the road every time there's another dog
I know I am going to sound like a broken record here but this unfortunately is not a suitable case for Internet advice, even though you will get some very well meaning advice here.
Because this has obviously been getting worse for a fair old time it is going to be harder to reverse but not impossible.
It would be worth asking your vet if they have a trusted behaviourist you could be referred to. Someone who uses only reward based therapies. They should once referred send you a questionnaire to fill out thoroughly and return and go from there.
Sometimes medications are needed initially to start breaking down anxiety issues but that's a case by case situation.
Sorry I can't offer anything more but even though I have learned many little behaviour tips over the years I am not trained, certificated and don't know your dog to make suggestions (esp as some suggestions can make matters worse) good luck.
Because this has obviously been getting worse for a fair old time it is going to be harder to reverse but not impossible.
It would be worth asking your vet if they have a trusted behaviourist you could be referred to. Someone who uses only reward based therapies. They should once referred send you a questionnaire to fill out thoroughly and return and go from there.
Sometimes medications are needed initially to start breaking down anxiety issues but that's a case by case situation.
Sorry I can't offer anything more but even though I have learned many little behaviour tips over the years I am not trained, certificated and don't know your dog to make suggestions (esp as some suggestions can make matters worse) good luck.
I am in contact with a behaviourist who is very experienced. Long story short, they were stumped! Their best suggestion is that it's a very extreme version of submissive behaviour, and also there is very likely some kind of issue (don't know if mental or physical) causing hyper-sensitivity.
The hyper-sensitivity is a definite worry. For example, he'll sometimes refuse to take a treat out of your hand or pick it up off the ground (he'll paw at it for an hour and drool)... And then when he does pick it up he'll carry it around for 10 minutes, scared to bite into it - and eventually when he does bite in he'll do a "pain squeal" and his whole body recoils. But his teeth have been checked multiple times, and he lets me poke and prod all around his mouth with no pain reaction.
I do wonder if some kind of anxiety medication could help. At the moment we can't even give him a treat so it makes rewarding good behaviour very difficult. I'll speak to our vet about the options.
I worry that people will think he has been abused. His reactions can be so similar to a dog that has suffered severe abuse, but he has been very loved and has lived in doggy luxury since 8 weeks old!
The hyper-sensitivity is a definite worry. For example, he'll sometimes refuse to take a treat out of your hand or pick it up off the ground (he'll paw at it for an hour and drool)... And then when he does pick it up he'll carry it around for 10 minutes, scared to bite into it - and eventually when he does bite in he'll do a "pain squeal" and his whole body recoils. But his teeth have been checked multiple times, and he lets me poke and prod all around his mouth with no pain reaction.
I do wonder if some kind of anxiety medication could help. At the moment we can't even give him a treat so it makes rewarding good behaviour very difficult. I'll speak to our vet about the options.
I worry that people will think he has been abused. His reactions can be so similar to a dog that has suffered severe abuse, but he has been very loved and has lived in doggy luxury since 8 weeks old!
moorx said:
You say that the dog has been given health checks - what have the checks included?
The very scientific "poke and prod" test 
. Done by several vets when we explained what he's like. I don't know if there's anything else that can be done?I tested his vision/hearing myself as best I could - he recognises different hand gestures close up and can see a tennis ball in the grass about a mile away... Also he can hear the dog food bag opening from another country, so that's not a problem...
bigbob77 said:
moorx said:
You say that the dog has been given health checks - what have the checks included?
The very scientific "poke and prod" test . Done by several vets when we explained what he's like. I don't know if there's anything else that can be done?I tested his vision/hearing myself as best I could - he recognises different hand gestures close up and can see a tennis ball in the grass about a mile away... Also he can hear the dog food bag opening from another country, so that's not a problem...
I think I might be wanting blood tests, just to reassure myself that there was nothing else going on (you mentioned occasional reactions to being touched in various places; and some medical conditions can cause behavioural changes - eg thyroid conditions).
They may be clear/inconclusive, but I think I'd want them done ahead of a behavioural referral.
As above further investigations, thyroid check is a good call (a full thyroid screen aswell) different behaviourist possibly even thoughts of something as far as an MRI esp if anxiety meds are tried with no joy.
Definitely time for a good chat with a vet, it must be very upsetting to have a dog so seemingly stressed about everyday life and it isn't right, not nice for him either to live like this (or you) hopefully a good vet (ie one that is good about behaviours, neurological disorders etc) will look into it a bit more for you.
Eta, when you say contact, has the behaviourist actually been to the house to see him and done a questionnaire with you?
Definitely time for a good chat with a vet, it must be very upsetting to have a dog so seemingly stressed about everyday life and it isn't right, not nice for him either to live like this (or you) hopefully a good vet (ie one that is good about behaviours, neurological disorders etc) will look into it a bit more for you.
Eta, when you say contact, has the behaviourist actually been to the house to see him and done a questionnaire with you?
I don't know where you are in the country, but sounds like it might be worth approaching Jon Bowen http://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-referrals/about-... - super chap, helped us years ago with a loopy lurcher
Dand E Lion said:
I don't know where you are in the country, but sounds like it might be worth approaching Jon Bowen http://www.rvc.ac.uk/small-animal-referrals/about-... - super chap, helped us years ago with a loopy lurcher
Too far but thanks for the suggestion 
.Had a look at our pet insurance policy (Pet Plan covered for life). Looks like it does cover vet/behaviourist consultations for this kind of thing, but with a catch... If they suspect that the behaviour could lead to aggression, they will remove your public liability cover. Weirdo Lab definitely gets scared enough sometimes that fear biting would be an issue (hasn't happened yet, but I've met enough scared dogs to know it's possible) - so I'll need to be careful about going through insurance for this.
Bex - contact meaning we're lucky enough to have someone very experienced in the extended family who has known weirdo lab since we got him. They suspected something happened in the 8 weeks before we got him (for example, even at 8 weeks he would growl if you got too close while he was eating). That would explain some of it, but he keeps getting worse and finding new things to be scared of.
I'll get him to the vet to explore tests / anxiety medications.
By the way - our other (younger) dog is the exact opposite! We were worried that a puppy would pick up on weirdo lab's behaviour but not at all! When the lab gets scared of something the younger dog will charge straight up to it to investigate. He is absolutely fearless and tolerates all sorts of nonsense like sitting treats on his nose without letting him eat them
.The weird thing is, they play so incredibly rough sometimes - they look/sound like they're killing each other. But you can tell they both have so much fun and weirdo lab doesn't even blink at a big set of teeth flying towards his face. But walking around the corner of the sofa - that's too scary
bigbob77 said:
.
Bex - contact meaning we're lucky enough to have someone very experienced in the extended family who has known weirdo lab since we got him. They suspected something happened in the 8 weeks before we got him (for example, even at 8 weeks he would growl if you got too close while he was eating). That would explain some of it, but he keeps getting worse and finding new things to be scared of.
Has this very experienced extended family member any qualification? Bex - contact meaning we're lucky enough to have someone very experienced in the extended family who has known weirdo lab since we got him. They suspected something happened in the 8 weeks before we got him (for example, even at 8 weeks he would growl if you got too close while he was eating). That would explain some of it, but he keeps getting worse and finding new things to be scared of.
How was the litter raised? Most pups will growl at their litter mates if they think their food is going to be pinched on weaning! The key is to make sure that the pup never feels their food is going to be taken from them (it's very old school to insist on taking food from dogs to 'indicate who is top dog')
I really think you need to have him properly assessed by a qualified behaviourist in the home environment. As for insurance, well, we've always done what's best for our dogs and horses, irrespective of what the insurance will pay for. That's maintaining our part of the bargain for their companionship
So you just want to know how to socialise a very nervous (now he's been attacked a few times) dog?
You can try something like ring craft classes or dog training classes where he will be "around" loads of dogs but don't let him say hello.
After you've been there a few times you can speak to people who have clearly calm dogs. Then you can let him say hello - which for a dog is not the face end............. Then remove him so he meets several dogs that way but never gets face to face.
That is one approach to take. A lot can depend on your dog and his body language - in some dogs he will be inviting an attack, whereas in other dogs he will be inviting a sniff or surrender. If he is overly nervous some dogs will attack as well as he is not stable and they don't like it.
You can try something like ring craft classes or dog training classes where he will be "around" loads of dogs but don't let him say hello.
After you've been there a few times you can speak to people who have clearly calm dogs. Then you can let him say hello - which for a dog is not the face end............. Then remove him so he meets several dogs that way but never gets face to face.
That is one approach to take. A lot can depend on your dog and his body language - in some dogs he will be inviting an attack, whereas in other dogs he will be inviting a sniff or surrender. If he is overly nervous some dogs will attack as well as he is not stable and they don't like it.
The problem is I don't think this dog will be able to cope with ring craft etc before they can even consider socialisation classes, they need to try and establish a root cause for his behaviour all round first.However these would be excellent places to consider with an all round slow rehabilitation plan which may well need to include anti anxiety treatments such as Melatoninbut that would have to be a vet/ owner discussion.
I know it has been suggested something happened to him in the first 8 weeks but I struggle to accept that this is the only possible reason that he is so severely anxious about every aspect of his life though, they can be born fearful and this just becomes more pronounced as they struggle to accept normal day to day life.
It must be quite a tough life when every day has a challenge, I really hope the OP finds a way to help him.
I know it has been suggested something happened to him in the first 8 weeks but I struggle to accept that this is the only possible reason that he is so severely anxious about every aspect of his life though, they can be born fearful and this just becomes more pronounced as they struggle to accept normal day to day life.
It must be quite a tough life when every day has a challenge, I really hope the OP finds a way to help him.
bexVN said:
I know it has been suggested something happened to him in the first 8 weeks but I struggle to accept that this is the only possible reason that he is so severely anxious about every aspect of his life though
I agree... It was a litter of 11 so maybe there were feeding issues but all the pups looked a good size and ours was quite outgoing and brave when we first saw him at 5 weeks. Even if he was stressed around food it doesn't explain all the other issues that have developed over the years.Dand - yes, it was their career for over 30 years. Like I said we're very lucky to have them available and there were some things they really helped us with (like how to react with food aggression, how to be less threatening, etc.) - but ultimately they haven't found a root cause for it and as soon as we reduce one fear, a new one appears. We have had loads of dogs and none were like this before. Funnily enough, weirdo lab was our most socialised puppy ever. He was out and about constantly, meeting everyone and getting involved with everything. He was absolutely bombproof until around a year old when we first noticed that really random things would frighten him.
The recent issues with dog aggression - at least I can understand where that has come from (I could punch the owners of those staffies)... But it's one of the hardest things for me because we always meet other dogs on our walks and I don't want to spend the rest of his life avoiding them. I won't risk him biting another dog though.
FiF said:
I couldn't remember his name,haven't seen him.post on here for a while. Could be worth a shout 
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff