Is this a "Dangerous Dog" scenario?

[sumo69]

I am looking for some advice from the PH collective.

I was with my 2 5 year old twins (one of whom is nervous of small dogs) and my Saluki's on the field yesterday.When we got there a chap with his Labrador was there playing ball and my 2 just run along with him for the chase - the lab is fine and not aggressive so all good.

A few mins later, this woman turns up with her cockapoo holding its ball and its growling and fangs showing the moment my 2 get close (who were only after a sniff and bowing to play) - I told her that the dog was clearly "Ball aggressive" and perhaps she should let the dog play without it to which I got the anticipated - no he isn't, he never attacks rubbish. I told her she was wrong and if I was correct I would deal with it in any way I thought fit to protect kids/dogs from harm.

So a couple of mins go by and and then the expected happens - it drops its ball and goes all in to my 11 year old Saluki who is doing nothing other than walking close by to my daughter who wanted to stroke the Cockapoo. The woman says or does nothing and so I give a loud shout to try and distract it and this having failed it got a right foot (not full strength but not a tap) which has the desired effect.

My dog has chunks of fur missing and my daughter was hysterical - both were cowering behind me.

Lots of insults exchanged, her thinking I am an evil sob, no apology etc etc.

So is her dog "dangerously out of control in a public place" and do I have grounds to make this formal??

Thanks for reading.

David

[Jasandjules]

Generally a dog on dog incident is not a DDA issue.

I would however go to her house and inform her if that happens again you will report her.

[sumo69]

Jasandjules said:

Generally a dog on dog incident is not a DDA issue.

I would however go to her house and inform her if that happens again you will report her.

Ok - but report her for what??

It makes no difference that my 5 year old was right next to my dog when it was attacked and genuinely shocked and upset?

Thanks

[elephantstone]

Cant really add much apart from that most cockapoos i come across are badly behaved with no recall (one being my mates mums).

I blame the fact they are popular and everyone wants one without any knowledge or bothering to train the fking thing.

[bernhund]

I would say that it's the same old story of 'dogs being dogs', but in the hands of an irresponsible owner as usual. She's probably never taken a meal away from it mid feast either to teach it not to snap at people. If it were my English Bull Terrier and her dog, I'd have the police on my doorstep because it doesn't have a sweet name like Cockerpoo!

[Bonefish Blues]

Apropos of this after our d-o-d attack last year the police took me to one side to make sure that we did indeed feel under threat for our own and our daughter's safety, since that would mean it was considered as the more serious offence.

Sounds like your scenario was similar.

[bexVN]

If your dogs had been on leads and hers attacked you would have a case, you could still contact the dog warden, can't hurt to try. They may make a note of it for future reference.

I would probably have walked away from the dog once I saw how it was being esp if I had kids with me.

The only bit I find odd from your point of view is why was your 5yr old even given the chance of trying to stroke the Cockapoo. If it had shown aggression there is no way I'd have allowed my children to even try.

Edited by bexVN on Sunday 27th September 19:27

[bexVN]

sumo69 said:

Jasandjules said:

Generally a dog on dog incident is not a DDA issue.

I would however go to her house and inform her if that happens again you will report her.

Ok - but report her for what??

It makes no difference that my 5 year old was right next to my dog when it was attacked and genuinely shocked and upset?

Thanks

I don't understand your response to J&J's post.

[HarryW]

bexVN said:

If your dogs had been on leads and hers attacked you would have a case, you could still contact the dog warden, can't hurt to try. They may make a note of it for future reference.

I would probably have walked away from the dog once I saw how it was being esp if I had kids with me.

The only bit I find odd from your point of view is why was your 5yr old even given the chance of trying to stroke the Cockapoo. If it had shown aggression there is no way I'd have allowed my children to even try.

Edited by bexVN on Sunday 27th September 19:27

This, some dogs can be over protective of their ball, if I come across this I just move on. I can't for the life of me wonder why you thought this would be a good dog for your daughter to attempt to stroke though?

[Jasandjules]

sumo69 said:

Ok - but report her for what??

You can tell her that you will report her to plod.

IME they quite often just pop round and have a quick chat.

For future reference however, if a dog is ball aggressive (or stick or whatever) your dogs should be kept away from it. You want to recall them. Put them back on lead if needs be. It is not ideal but better for your dogs.

Also, do not allow your child to go near a ball aggressive dog that has a ball in its mouth. And I assume as you have dogs your daughter knows not to approach other dogs without asking permission of the owner first?

[dai1983]

elephantstone said:

Cant really add much apart from that most cockapoos i come across are badly behaved with no recall (one being my mates mums).

I blame the fact they are popular and everyone wants one without any knowledge or bothering to train the fking thing.

Ours was awesome with recall straight out of the box!

[hman]

You identified her dog was ball aggressive, knowing this you could have avoided the problem by keeping your dogs and children away from her ball aggressive dog.

Merely identifying the problem, then allowing a situation to unfold and claim the moral high ground with "told you so" is not the best way of making sure everyone has a nice day.

I get around all this by asking other owners to put their dogs on the lead as my dog doesn't play well with others (rescue GSD of unknown social ability). They usually are very happy to do so and we then don't have any incidents of dogs getting bitten. The GSD is in training with other dogs and is improving but I don't take the the chance with random dogs as its way too risky.

Prevention better than dog fight, heated exchanges and upset children.

[sumo69]

HarryW said:

This, some dogs can be over protective of their ball, if I come across this I just move on. I can't for the life of me wonder why you thought this would be a good dog for your daughter to attempt to stroke though?

For info, I didn't encourage her to go near it - in fact she was asking the owner as we have ingrained in her but at that particular moment I was collecting her twin from the playground about 50 yards away to leave as I could foresee what was going to happen.

The incident kicked-off just as I got back - otherwise I wouldn't have let her go near either aggressive dog/obstinate owner.

So to those that thought I should have just left, I had the intention but was about 30 seconds too late.

Thanks to all for comments/input.

David

[Hooli]

As said by others, sounds like a typical 'cute dog' owner not bothering to train their mutt.

Being SBT owners we are careful around such dogs as you know which breed would get the blame if anything happened.

[RB Will]

Will echo what a few others have said ( and I see you have your reasons) but you identifed the dog had issues yet did nothing to prevent any problems. Putting your dogs on leads and taking your child with you would have prevented it all.

Speaking as someone who has a dog with issues (thanks to other peoples badly behaved dogs) life is so much easier when people have a bit of give and take on both sides rather than just thinking " well my dog is fine so anything that happens is your fault".

Mine is now on a lead at all times (except when I can see a long way in every direction so I can recall her before anything gets to her) and even though people can see she is on a lead, looking nervous, I'm walking off path to give us more space, 99% of people will still let their dog come running up to say hello. Causing my dog to react knocking out the effect of the few positive experiences she gets to resocialise.

I had a similar experience to you a while back, though no children involved.
I was in a large field playing fetch with mine, I could see a guy with 2 lurcher/ whippet type dogs a bit up in front. I stop playing with mine and walk her the opposite way up the field away from the other dogs.
Once well away we start playing again.
after a couple of throws his dogs come sprinting over from far enough away that he is not even in sight anymore and go straight at my dog.
Mine drops her ball sees off the 2 dogs and runs back to me. Other 2 dogs are now running around us barking and snarling. I shout for the guy to come get his dogs, he ambles over shouting at me. Tells me that I shouldnt have mine off a lead and that its dangerous and aggressive. I throw back about his dogs being the ones miles away from owner out of control and sparking the problem. after a min we both settle down to a reasonable discussion and I explain exactly why my dog has issues (because of dogs like his and owners like him) and how I had been trying to keep mine away and avoid any fuss and a bit of co op would be nice.

We are now stood 10ft apart all dogs on leads. He still thinks I have a dangerous dog so says to me "so what will happen now if you let her go? she is going to attack mine" I say no she just wants to play with her ball and not be harassed. So he tells me to let her off while he keeps his on, so I do and mine just sits by my side not bothered by his dogs at all, throw ball, she fetches and waits to go again.
Guy now sees I don't have an outwardly aggressive dog (fear aggressive yes)

So all fine and well lessons leared all round and not had any problems with them since.

Sounds like the cockapoo much like mine was dealing with what it thought was a threat, it didnt come running straight up to your dogs/ daughter barking and snapping, they inadvertently provoked it.

I would say report it if in future the dog tries to have a go without provocation but just use this incident as a learning experience for all involved