I need goldfish, tank etc by weekend - which shop to use?
Discussion
Right I need the full monty by the weekend. What do I need? Do I need a pump for a goldfish? I need all the shizzle - fish, tank, pump, stones, background for tank, any other stuff, for daughter number 1.
Is petsathome or whatever that big shop is called my only option? Any advice? I don't want tropical fish and all that nonsense just normal goldfish to keep her happy
cheers
edit this one looks alright?
http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...
Is petsathome or whatever that big shop is called my only option? Any advice? I don't want tropical fish and all that nonsense just normal goldfish to keep her happy
cheers
edit this one looks alright?
http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...
Edited by CoolHands on Wednesday 12th August 20:46
Water and filtration bacteria. still require time to establish, the likes of Safestart arent reliable enough.
Regardless of whether trops or coldwater. surely the fish deserve th best water you can supply ?
It doesnt come straight from the tap - that will contain Chrloramine, chlorine and Nitrates - all very bad for fish....
Regardless of whether trops or coldwater. surely the fish deserve th best water you can supply ?
It doesnt come straight from the tap - that will contain Chrloramine, chlorine and Nitrates - all very bad for fish....
Does it definitely need to be goldfish? They need a large tank and decent filtration.
There are various lovely fish which don't need such large tanks and are suitable for temperate (i.e. room temp) tanks. I think Variatus Platyfish might be suitable, but check with the shop. They look vaguely goldfish like but also come in blue, yellow, red, black, white and mixes thereof.
Fish-in cycling is also really cruel IMHO unless done really carefully i.e. potentially 50+% water changes every day for up to 6 weeks.
The only instant-cycle product readily available in the UK which works is Tetra SafeStart. Worst case, use that.
In which case:
1 Fill tank with water,
2 add a tap-safe conditioner of some kind (removes chlorine etc) and leave it one day.
3 Add Tetra SafeStart and a SMALL AMOUNT of fish
You must then follow the instructions to the letter. And don't add water conditioner and SafeStart on the same day, it stops it working.
ETA: just seen that tank you linked, it's massively too small for a goldfish.
There are various lovely fish which don't need such large tanks and are suitable for temperate (i.e. room temp) tanks. I think Variatus Platyfish might be suitable, but check with the shop. They look vaguely goldfish like but also come in blue, yellow, red, black, white and mixes thereof.
Fish-in cycling is also really cruel IMHO unless done really carefully i.e. potentially 50+% water changes every day for up to 6 weeks.
The only instant-cycle product readily available in the UK which works is Tetra SafeStart. Worst case, use that.
In which case:
1 Fill tank with water,
2 add a tap-safe conditioner of some kind (removes chlorine etc) and leave it one day.
3 Add Tetra SafeStart and a SMALL AMOUNT of fish
You must then follow the instructions to the letter. And don't add water conditioner and SafeStart on the same day, it stops it working.
ETA: just seen that tank you linked, it's massively too small for a goldfish.
Edited by kwock on Wednesday 12th August 21:18
Edited by kwock on Wednesday 12th August 21:19
ok thanks people - I'll make her get smaller fish appropriate to the tank size. I can get tank etc for this weekend and buy fish another time if I have to cycle it all - I will read up on it but off the top of your head how long you talking? before fish can be put in tank. A week? or longer? And safestart and all that is that to make the water habitable for fish?
thanks
thanks
CoolHands said:
ok thanks people - I'll make her get smaller fish appropriate to the tank size. I can get tank etc for this weekend and buy fish another time if I have to cycle it all - I will read up on it but off the top of your head how long you talking? before fish can be put in tank. A week? or longer? And safestart and all that is that to make the water habitable for fish?
thanks
Okay. Long story short. thanks
Fish and various other waste is or turns into ammonia. You need bacteria in the filter to convert this to nitrite, then another species which converts that to nitrate.
Ammonia and nitrite are deadly in tiny amounts to the fish and even if they don't die causes a chemical burn to their gills leaving them prone to disease.
Your options for getting this bacteria are (best to worst for the fishes ) imho
1. Fishless cycle. Takes 4-6 weeks. Can fully stock the tank then. You need a test kit and bottle of Ammonia. You test for levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and will then know a colony is established. Once complete you can fully stock the tank in one go!
2. Use media (sponges/ceramic loops etc) from somebody's established tank in your new filter. It will quickly seed your new filter. Only keep a small amount of fish to start with.
3. Tetra safestart. I have personally tested this, it works as long as you follow the instructions down to the letter and don't add too many fish at once.
4. Fish in cycle. Fish waste provides the Ammonia. You do big water changes every day for six weeks to bring the levels down enough to make it safe for the fish.
One other thing, add a plant called elodea densa to the tank. It scoffs waste at a remarkable rate and adds a bit of leeway in case of problems.
Eta. Don't let them talk you into buying other products. You need the following
A water conditioner e. G. Tap safe, stress coat, prime. Removes chlorine etc from tap water
A test kit, liquid is best. If you get strips, make sure they do ammonia,nitrite and nitrate.
Optionally tetra safe start if that's what you choose (and not any other brand)
Edited by budgie smuggler on Wednesday 12th August 22:35
budgie smuggler said:
Okay. Long story short.
Fish and various other waste is or turns into ammonia. You need bacteria in the filter to convert this to nitrite, then another species which converts that to nitrate.
Ammonia and nitrite are deadly in tiny amounts to the fish and even if they don't die causes a chemical burn to their gills leaving them prone to disease.
Your options for getting this bacteria are (best to worst for the fishes ) imho
1. Fishless cycle. Takes 4-6 weeks. Can fully stock the tank then. You need a test kit and bottle of Ammonia. You test for levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and will then know a colony is established. Once complete you can fully stock the tank in one go!
2. Use media (sponges/ceramic loops etc) from somebody's established tank in your new filter. It will quickly seed your new filter. Only keep a small amount of fish to start with.
3. Tetra safestart. I have personally tested this, it works as long as you follow the instructions down to the letter and don't add too many fish at once.
4. Fish in cycle. Fish waste provides the Ammonia. You do big water changes every day for six weeks to bring the levels down enough to make it safe for the fish.
One other thing, add a plant called elodea densa to the tank. It scoffs waste at a remarkable rate and adds a bit of leeway in case of problems.
Eta. Don't let them talk you into buying other products. You need the following
A water conditioner e. G. Tap safe, stress coat, prime. Removes chlorine etc from tap water
A test kit, liquid is best. If you get strips, make sure they do ammonia,nitrite and nitrate.
Optionally tetra safe start if that's what you choose (and not any other brand)
thanks for time to post all this. I will re-read tomorrow. I will most likely have to go for Tetra Safestart since the 6 week thing is not really viable; plus the bits you mention at the bottom - water conditioner, test kit. I will read and follow all instruction correctly. IS that tank I linked to reasonable for a few tiny fish? (Thanks for the time to write all that - I didn't know anything about fish at all to be honest).Fish and various other waste is or turns into ammonia. You need bacteria in the filter to convert this to nitrite, then another species which converts that to nitrate.
Ammonia and nitrite are deadly in tiny amounts to the fish and even if they don't die causes a chemical burn to their gills leaving them prone to disease.
Your options for getting this bacteria are (best to worst for the fishes ) imho
1. Fishless cycle. Takes 4-6 weeks. Can fully stock the tank then. You need a test kit and bottle of Ammonia. You test for levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and will then know a colony is established. Once complete you can fully stock the tank in one go!
2. Use media (sponges/ceramic loops etc) from somebody's established tank in your new filter. It will quickly seed your new filter. Only keep a small amount of fish to start with.
3. Tetra safestart. I have personally tested this, it works as long as you follow the instructions down to the letter and don't add too many fish at once.
4. Fish in cycle. Fish waste provides the Ammonia. You do big water changes every day for six weeks to bring the levels down enough to make it safe for the fish.
One other thing, add a plant called elodea densa to the tank. It scoffs waste at a remarkable rate and adds a bit of leeway in case of problems.
Eta. Don't let them talk you into buying other products. You need the following
A water conditioner e. G. Tap safe, stress coat, prime. Removes chlorine etc from tap water
A test kit, liquid is best. If you get strips, make sure they do ammonia,nitrite and nitrate.
Optionally tetra safe start if that's what you choose (and not any other brand)
Edited by budgie smuggler on Wednesday 12th August 22:35
CoolHands said:
hanks for time to post all this. I will re-read tomorrow. I will most likely have to go for Tetra Safestart since the 6 week thing is not really viable; plus the bits you mention at the bottom - water conditioner, test kit. I will read and follow all instruction correctly. IS that tank I linked to reasonable for a few tiny fish? (Thanks for the time to write all that - I didn't know anything about fish at all to be honest).
It's a bit small, to be honest. 
A lot of people vastly over-complicate simple fishkeeping these days - applying high-end exotica terms/techniques to simple hardy set ups - essentially a 'goldfish bowl'!
The only thing I would bother with is a water conditioner if you are using it straight from the tap, with small tanks, it's just as easy to leave some water in a bucket for a few days prior to water changes/filling - that is more than enough to allow any chlorine etc. to disperse.
If you buy a couple of very small goldfish - certainly no bigger than 2 or 3" including tail, the tank and your proposal will work fine, goldfish tend to grow to their environment so they will stay small.
The provenance (breeding/health/treatment prior to your acquisition) will be the biggest factor as to whether they thrive or not.
The only thing I would bother with is a water conditioner if you are using it straight from the tap, with small tanks, it's just as easy to leave some water in a bucket for a few days prior to water changes/filling - that is more than enough to allow any chlorine etc. to disperse.
If you buy a couple of very small goldfish - certainly no bigger than 2 or 3" including tail, the tank and your proposal will work fine, goldfish tend to grow to their environment so they will stay small.
The provenance (breeding/health/treatment prior to your acquisition) will be the biggest factor as to whether they thrive or not.
Mr GrimNasty said:
A lot of people vastly over-complicate simple fishkeeping these days - applying high-end exotica terms/techniques to simple hardy set ups - essentially a 'goldfish bowl'!
And a lot of people do what you're suggesting and kill a lot of fish. Buy the right sized tank, cycle it using one of the methods above, add fish. Easy.Mr GrimNasty said:
it's just as easy to leave some water in a bucket for a few days prior to water changes/filling - that is more than enough to allow any chlorine etc. to disperse.
Wrong. Chloramine does not disperse this way.Mr GrimNasty said:
If you buy a couple of very small goldfish - certainly no bigger than 2 or 3" including tail, the tank and your proposal will work fine, goldfish tend to grow to their environment so they will stay small.
There is some truth to goldfish growing to the size of the tank, however this is still awful advice. A healthy goldfish in captivity should live to around 25 years of age BTW. Mr GrimNasty said:
The provenance (breeding/health/treatment prior to your acquisition) will be the biggest factor as to whether they thrive or not.
Again, I disagree. Ammonia/nitrite poisoning will kill/injure any fish, even from good stock. Ammonia gives chemical burns to the gills, nitrite disrupts the bloods ability of transport oxygen properly. This is why you often see goldfish in s
tty little bowls sitting on the bottom or gasping for air at the top.0.5ppm of ammonia (filter failure) wiped out 12 fully grown goldfish in my mum's garden pond for instance and they were from a local breeder, not poor quality inbred stock like you often see in chain stores.
Please don't take my word for it though OP. Ask on any fishkeeping forum, write to a mag, etc.
Edited by budgie smuggler on Thursday 13th August 11:05
budgie smuggler said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
A lot of people vastly over-complicate simple fishkeeping these days - applying high-end exotica terms/techniques to simple hardy set ups - essentially a 'goldfish bowl'!
And a lot of people do what you're suggesting and kill a lot of fish. Buy the right sized tank, cycle it using one of the methods above, add fish. Easy.Mr GrimNasty said:
it's just as easy to leave some water in a bucket for a few days prior to water changes/filling - that is more than enough to allow any chlorine etc. to disperse.
Wrong. Chloramine does not disperse this way.Mr GrimNasty said:
If you buy a couple of very small goldfish - certainly no bigger than 2 or 3" including tail, the tank and your proposal will work fine, goldfish tend to grow to their environment so they will stay small.
There is some truth to goldfish growing to the size of the tank, however this is still awful advice. A healthy goldfish in captivity should live to around 25 years of age BTW. Mr GrimNasty said:
The provenance (breeding/health/treatment prior to your acquisition) will be the biggest factor as to whether they thrive or not.
Again, I disagree. Ammonia/nitrite poisoning will kill/injure any fish, even from good stock. Ammonia gives chemical burns to the gills, nitrite disrupts the bloods ability of transport oxygen properly. This is why you often see goldfish in stty little bowls sitting on the bottom or gasping for air at the top.0.5ppm of ammonia (filter failure) wiped out 12 fully grown goldfish in my mum's garden pond for instance and they were from a local breeder, not poor quality inbred stock like you often see in chain stores.
Please don't take my word for it though OP. Ask on any fishkeeping forum, write to a mag, etc.
Edited by budgie smuggler on Thursday 13th August 11:05
I've kept fish for 60 years, I know all the technical/science side, and when it is and isn't important.
2 small goldfish in a tank require nothing but a little common sense to live long and prosper.
Like I said, some people like to over-complicate things, in your case - vastly.
ETA Chloramine certainly will dissipate after a few days (note I said days) - it is chemically unstable and a short boil will speed the process, like I said, if you can't wait, use a product - yes it's slower than chlorine which will probably be gone within hours.
You will also be aware that 20 year old goldfish in a small tank can still be 2" long, whilst in a pond the same fish would be 10" - this is because Goldfish are one of the few animals that produce growth inhibitory hormones, so in a small tank they get a correspondingly high exposure.
And most people never kill fish of encounter water quality problems - if you do, it's because you were greedy/stupid.
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Thursday 13th August 14:24
Mr GrimNasty said:
Utterly pointless reply merely reinforcing my point.
I've kept fish for 60 years, I know all the technical/science side, and when it is and isn't important.
2 small goldfish in a tank require nothing but a little common sense to live long and prosper.
Like I said, some people like to over-complicate things, in your case - vastly.
ETA Chloramine certainly will dissipate after a few days (note I said days) - it is chemically unstable and a short boil will speed the process, like I said, if you can't wait, use a product - yes it's slower than chlorine which will probably be gone within hours.
You will also be aware that 20 year old goldfish in a small tank can still be 2" long, whilst in a pond the same fish would be 10" - this is because Goldfish are one of the few animals that produce growth inhibitory hormones, so in a small tank they get a correspondingly high exposure.
And most people never kill fish of encounter water quality problems - if you do, it's because you were greedy/stupid.
I started writing a post to dispute your points, but let's face it, nothing I say could possibly convince somebody who is recommending that a newbie keeping 2 common goldfish in a 28L tank that they're wrong. I've kept fish for 60 years, I know all the technical/science side, and when it is and isn't important.
2 small goldfish in a tank require nothing but a little common sense to live long and prosper.
Like I said, some people like to over-complicate things, in your case - vastly.
ETA Chloramine certainly will dissipate after a few days (note I said days) - it is chemically unstable and a short boil will speed the process, like I said, if you can't wait, use a product - yes it's slower than chlorine which will probably be gone within hours.
You will also be aware that 20 year old goldfish in a small tank can still be 2" long, whilst in a pond the same fish would be 10" - this is because Goldfish are one of the few animals that produce growth inhibitory hormones, so in a small tank they get a correspondingly high exposure.
And most people never kill fish of encounter water quality problems - if you do, it's because you were greedy/stupid.
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Thursday 13th August 14:24
So let's leave it there.
Possibly everything you need to know about goldfish in tanks.
http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/index.htm
http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/index.htm
Had 1 goldfish in a 1 gallon tank for 15 years as a kid. No filter, no pump, no chemicals. Used to clean the tank & gravel with Fairy liquid when it went green - usually a few months as it wasn't in direct sunlight. Used fresh water straight from the tap, gave the fish to a mate and he kept it for a good few years after me.
I know times change and things progress but there's far too much reliance on chemicals these days. I rarely use them in my tropical set up and even more rarely lose a fish
There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say and as for the previous poster claiming you can fully stock an aquarium just because you've done a fish-less set up, I'd suggest that that was just asking for problems and even more cruel than a sensible fish-in cycle
All IMHO of course but then, I've only been keeping fish for 50 years so clearly know fekk all about it
I know times change and things progress but there's far too much reliance on chemicals these days. I rarely use them in my tropical set up and even more rarely lose a fish
There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say and as for the previous poster claiming you can fully stock an aquarium just because you've done a fish-less set up, I'd suggest that that was just asking for problems and even more cruel than a sensible fish-in cycle
All IMHO of course but then, I've only been keeping fish for 50 years so clearly know fekk all about it
Well tank bought + gravel. I've set it up with pump and put in Interpet bioactive tapsafe to get rid of chlorine etc and have it running now. When we buy the fish and put in, I will add tetra safestart which I've purchased ready. The Aqua one tank is surprisingly nicely made - and to my eyes is pretty sizeable.
thanks for all advice, I've think i've made reasonably responsible decisions!
One other question - how often should I change the water once we have the fish? Once a month, or every other month or what?
thanks for all advice, I've think i've made reasonably responsible decisions!
One other question - how often should I change the water once we have the fish? Once a month, or every other month or what?
CoolHands said:
Well tank bought + gravel. I've set it up with pump and put in Interpet bioactive tapsafe to get rid of chlorine etc and have it running now. When we buy the fish and put in, I will add tetra safestart which I've purchased ready. The Aqua one tank is surprisingly nicely made - and to my eyes is pretty sizeable.
thanks for all advice, I've think i've made reasonably responsible decisions!
One other question - how often should I change the water once we have the fish? Once a month, or every other month or what?
Good man thanks for all advice, I've think i've made reasonably responsible decisions!
One other question - how often should I change the water once we have the fish? Once a month, or every other month or what?
Get some elodea in there as well. On the water change thing, well, that's another whole barrel of worms.
I'll just refer you to this nice simple article here:
http://thegoldfishtank.com/goldfish-tank-water-cha...
Easiest way to get the old water out is using a gravel vac:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Gravel-Cleaner-...
And you can clean waste out of the gravel with it at the same time.
Timlocalad said:
and as for the previous poster claiming you can fully stock an aquarium just because you've done a fish-less set up, I'd suggest that that was just asking for problems and even more cruel than a sensible fish-in cycle
All IMHO of course but then, I've only been keeping fish for 50 years so clearly know fekk all about it
Why criticize me if quite obviously you know nothing about it? Being able to fully stock the tank is one of the principle reasons for its invention. Specifically so that Malawi cichlids can be full stocked in one go to avoid establishing territories. All IMHO of course but then, I've only been keeping fish for 50 years so clearly know fekk all about it
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