Horses, Grass, Hay, WTF?

[Willy Nilly]

Answer me this:

Why can a horse eat grass that is so long that it is in the bale chamber on my baler before it has finished going up the pickup reel, as long as it is dry and in a bale. But if grass is more then 6 inches long and growing I have to mow it for some reason or another.

I don't think the combined brains of Steven Hawkins, Colin Pillinger and Steven Fry could ever work out horsey people.

[viscountdallara]

Colic.
Fresh grass ferments in the gut.
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A...

[Willy Nilly]

Colic, I'm told, is just a catch all term to say the horse isn't well. At this time of the year, all the long grass is just dead seed stems. When it's topped it then becomes green and lush, so why not eat the dead stems if they like low grade food?

[Granville]

Ever been on the receiving end of colic? It's hardly just a term used to say an animal isn't well

[durbster]

I have a couple of mates with horses and the amount of work that seems to be required just to keep them alive is amazing.

What puzzles me is that in Australia I saw lots of wild horses that seemed to be dealing with life quite well.

So what's going on? A massive scam or were all those wild horses actually probably in all sorts of trouble?

[Granville]

I would think most wild animals have access to herbs & plants so can self medicate, whereas domesticated animals, horses in this case have limited access as we tend to have pasture management and take away a lot of things they would normally eat in the wild.

If given the access to it, horses will eat nettles & rosehips to self medicate -

The rosehips have high quantities of Vitamin C, iron, copper and biotin. They are an excellent blood cleanser, good for the kidneys, liver and adrenal glands as well as being an immune stimulant. Nettles are also high in iron and are very effective as an arterial tonic and in blood oxygenation. Clay is an inert substance, however, it does bind toxins enabling them to be evacuated from the body and it also protects the lining of the gut having an ant-acid effect, absorbing excess fluids and subsequently curbing diarrhoea.

[Hooli]

durbster said:

I have a couple of mates with horses and the amount of work that seems to be required just to keep them alive is amazing.

What puzzles me is that in Australia I saw lots of wild horses that seemed to be dealing with life quite well.

So what's going on? A massive scam or were all those wild horses actually probably in all sorts of trouble?

Sure seems that way doesn't it?

[stablemate]

As a horse widower myself I completely agree. It seems a marvel that wild horses are able to keep themselves alive and healthy! Definitely some kind of conspiracy

[TwistingMyMelon]

couldn't it just be evolution and breeding, ie only the strong and the adaptable survive when wild .

[durbster]

TwistingMyMelon said:

couldn't it just be evolution and breeding, ie only the strong and the adaptable survive when wild .

I though that, but if you consider the relative recency of European settlement in Australia, evolution hasn't had anywhere near enough time to have an effect.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Wild horses do get colic but it is much rarer and usually less severe but can still be fatal - it's down to a multitude of reasons, more natural feeding patterns, the nature of wild feed, less worms etc. etc.

[Willy Nilly]

Granville said:

They are an excellent blood cleanser, good for the kidneys, liver and adrenal glands as well as being an immune stimulant. Nettles are also high in iron and are very effective as an arterial tonic and in blood oxygenation. Clay is an inert substance, however, it does bind toxins enabling them to be evacuated from the body and it also protects the lining of the gut having an ant-acid effect, absorbing excess fluids and subsequently curbing diarrhoea.

Which extensively peer reviewed equine medical journal is that load of bks drawn from?

I was brought up with dairy cows and have worked with intensive pigs. The rations on enterprises like those are continually tweaked to keep the animals in good health, productive and the owners in business. With horses, the diet seems to be based around whatever BS has been spouted on an internet forum somewhere. I mean, why the hell would anyone grate swedes and carrots to feed an animal that can chew the wood off a door? It also seems that garlic makes up part of a horses diet, I can just imagine the horses rooting up garlic when any blade of grass that isn't just so makes them lame, cough, st, limp, fart etc.

[paintman]

British Equine Veterinary Association:
"All dietary changes should be made slowly - over at least two weeks The horse has a delicate balance of gut microflora and this population needs time to adapt to the new diet. Do not feed items such as lawn clippings, large amounts of rapidly fermentable feeds such as apples, or feeds designed for other types of animals. Do not rapidly reduce feed intake, especially of overweight ponies or pregnant animals."
https://www.beva.org.uk/useful-info/HorseOwner/Gui...

Bit more detail from the Australian RSPCA:
"Feeding horses on lawn mower clippings can be very dangerous for several reasons. When lawn mower clippings are fresh they are fermenting (this is why they are warm or even hot when you put your hand inside a fresh pile of clippings). If a horse is given a pile of fresh clippings to eat he/she can gorge on them. As the clippings have been chopped up small (by the mower) the horse does not need to chew them and therefore swallows the clippings without mixing them with saliva (which is what happens when a horse chews its food normally). This means that the clippings arrive in the stomach already fermenting and without the benefit of saliva to ‘dilute’ them (in the normal situation grasses that are eaten by the horse do not start to ferment to this extent until they are much further along in the gut). The gases given off by the fermenting clippings can expand to the point that they rupture the stomach (which is fatal). If the clippings do not cause rupture of the stomach, they can result in colic (abdominal pain) due to complications further down the intestinal tract."
http://kb.rspca.org.au/Can-I-feed-my-horse-on-lawn...

Apparently the horse is unable to regurgitate stuff or burp due to the construction of the stomach - see the Australian link for more info on that. I've no idea what your cattle or pigs are able to do, but as cows chew the cud I would expect that they can get rid of wind by burping.

Edited by paintman on Friday 17th July 08:48

[Granville]

Willy Nilly said:

Granville said:

They are an excellent blood cleanser, good for the kidneys, liver and adrenal glands as well as being an immune stimulant. Nettles are also high in iron and are very effective as an arterial tonic and in blood oxygenation. Clay is an inert substance, however, it does bind toxins enabling them to be evacuated from the body and it also protects the lining of the gut having an ant-acid effect, absorbing excess fluids and subsequently curbing diarrhoea.

Which extensively peer reviewed equine medical journal is that load of bks drawn from?

I was brought up with dairy cows and have worked with intensive pigs. The rations on enterprises like those are continually tweaked to keep the animals in good health, productive and the owners in business. With horses, the diet seems to be based around whatever BS has been spouted on an internet forum somewhere. I mean, why the hell would anyone grate swedes and carrots to feed an animal that can chew the wood off a door? It also seems that garlic makes up part of a horses diet, I can just imagine the horses rooting up garlic when any blade of grass that isn't just so makes them lame, cough, st, limp, fart etc.

So not much, if any, experience of horses then & their dietary needs? Same as the jungle tribes that have no involvement to the modern world and medicines. They self medicate using what is available and knowledge handed down over generations and they seem to be living quite happily using only what nature has provided

[Hooli]

paintman said:

British Equine Veterinary Association:
"All dietary changes should be made slowly - over at least two weeks The horse has a delicate balance of gut microflora and this population needs time to adapt to the new diet. Do not feed items such as lawn clippings, large amounts of rapidly fermentable feeds such as apples, or feeds designed for other types of animals. Do not rapidly reduce feed intake, especially of overweight ponies or pregnant animals."
https://www.beva.org.uk/useful-info/HorseOwner/Gui...

Bit more detail from the Australian RSPCA:
"Feeding horses on lawn mower clippings can be very dangerous for several reasons. When lawn mower clippings are fresh they are fermenting (this is why they are warm or even hot when you put your hand inside a fresh pile of clippings). If a horse is given a pile of fresh clippings to eat he/she can gorge on them. As the clippings have been chopped up small (by the mower) the horse does not need to chew them and therefore swallows the clippings without mixing them with saliva (which is what happens when a horse chews its food normally). This means that the clippings arrive in the stomach already fermenting and without the benefit of saliva to ‘dilute’ them (in the normal situation grasses that are eaten by the horse do not start to ferment to this extent until they are much further along in the gut). The gases given off by the fermenting clippings can expand to the point that they rupture the stomach (which is fatal). If the clippings do not cause rupture of the stomach, they can result in colic (abdominal pain) due to complications further down the intestinal tract."
http://kb.rspca.org.au/Can-I-feed-my-horse-on-lawn...

Apparently the horse is unable to regurgitate stuff or burp due to the construction of the stomach - see the Australian link for more info on that. I've no idea what your cattle or pigs are able to do, but as cows chew the cud I would expect that they can get rid of wind by burping.

I never knew they couldn't burp, no wonder girls like them so much

[Willy Nilly]

Granville said:

Willy Nilly said:

Granville said:

They are an excellent blood cleanser, good for the kidneys, liver and adrenal glands as well as being an immune stimulant. Nettles are also high in iron and are very effective as an arterial tonic and in blood oxygenation. Clay is an inert substance, however, it does bind toxins enabling them to be evacuated from the body and it also protects the lining of the gut having an ant-acid effect, absorbing excess fluids and subsequently curbing diarrhoea.

Which extensively peer reviewed equine medical journal is that load of bks drawn from?

I was brought up with dairy cows and have worked with intensive pigs. The rations on enterprises like those are continually tweaked to keep the animals in good health, productive and the owners in business. With horses, the diet seems to be based around whatever BS has been spouted on an internet forum somewhere. I mean, why the hell would anyone grate swedes and carrots to feed an animal that can chew the wood off a door? It also seems that garlic makes up part of a horses diet, I can just imagine the horses rooting up garlic when any blade of grass that isn't just so makes them lame, cough, st, limp, fart etc.

So not much, if any, experience of horses then & their dietary needs? Same as the jungle tribes that have no involvement to the modern world and medicines. They self medicate using what is available and knowledge handed down over generations and they seem to be living quite happily using only what nature has provided

Talking to one of the grooms at work. She picked up one of the umpteen cartons of supplements and proceeded to read what was in it and then said, and I quote "why the fk do they think horses need this? They just read it on the internet, so it must be true"

Dad used to have a guy milk his cows that was a clever bloke, he worked at university college on their plant breeding program and used to buy the same precision chopped silage that dad was feeding to his cows to feed his horses. He did select the second cut stuff that wasn't as hot, but said it wasn't a problem. I've also seen horses kept outside all winter and their feed was a round bale of silage chucked in a ring feeder in the field, there were very few dead ones in there.

A while ago I offered a spud to a horse, the owner went ape st. I also take stock feed potatoes to a farm that feeds them to cows. He happens to have a couple of horses and so I told him about it. He laughed and said feeding a few spuds to horses isn't an issue, in fact when he cleans his horses pens out (they use the same pens and his cows) with the Bobcat, he leaves the horses out in the yard and throws a shovel full of spuds on the floor to keep them occupied while he does his work. He has hardly any dead horses either.

When we did cattle rations at college we knew the maintenance requirements of the animals and then were given a production target to work from and you work out what you need to feed from there when you have the analysis from the products on offer. With cattle you work on ME (metabolisiable energy) and DCP (digestible crude protein), or we did then, with horse you add in wishy washy pseudo science ad lib, or so it seems.

[The jiffle king]

Over here in the US, they let the horses graze, get water and then feed them anything which comes to mind as a treat. Our horse (9 yr old gelding) will try just about anything although he did not like sprouts too much at Christmas. Goes crazy for extra strong mints which I have to bring back packs of every time I'm in the UK and his top lip goes mad for carrots.

They can and do eat many things and as long as they get grass/hay and water, then they are pretty robust. Here in the US, the grass grows so quickly that they cut it all the time and the horses ignore the cut grass