Conflicting advice from 2 vets
Discussion
I'm confused!
My dog Ferdie is 5 and has always maintained a weight, which is a tad under the average for his breed, no visable ribs, pronounced backbone and maintains the same weight, no matter how much he eats he never puts it on. If he loses it through more exercise or a bout of sickness he goes back up to what he was and stops there. He eats a good quality food (Symply) and consumes 3 times the amount as my Mum's dog who is his uncle and puts weight on easily.
Now this has never bothered me, he has his weight and maintains it (I wish I were the same!) After a bout of bad sickness and diarrhea with a lot of blood in it I rushed him to the vets last Monday. The vet was concerned about his weight and sent for the sample I had to be tested. Anyway it cleared up and the sample came back negative I took him back on the Wednesday to be checked by another vet at the same practise who read the notes and said his weight was perfect.
Today the first vet rang, still expressing concern and recommended abdominal scan, endoscopy down throat and a biopsy. I'm really confused, on the one hand my old dog had stomach cancer which wasn't diagnosed until it was too late and I want to give Ferdie the best care, on the other hand I don't want to put him through procedures that are not required.
A couple of notes, he's insured so money isn't an object and I trust my vet, so am comfortable she's not doing it for the money. Also when I have tried to change his food previously, even from different flavours within the range he has lost weight within a week.
Any recommendations or advice?
My dog Ferdie is 5 and has always maintained a weight, which is a tad under the average for his breed, no visable ribs, pronounced backbone and maintains the same weight, no matter how much he eats he never puts it on. If he loses it through more exercise or a bout of sickness he goes back up to what he was and stops there. He eats a good quality food (Symply) and consumes 3 times the amount as my Mum's dog who is his uncle and puts weight on easily.
Now this has never bothered me, he has his weight and maintains it (I wish I were the same!) After a bout of bad sickness and diarrhea with a lot of blood in it I rushed him to the vets last Monday. The vet was concerned about his weight and sent for the sample I had to be tested. Anyway it cleared up and the sample came back negative I took him back on the Wednesday to be checked by another vet at the same practise who read the notes and said his weight was perfect.
Today the first vet rang, still expressing concern and recommended abdominal scan, endoscopy down throat and a biopsy. I'm really confused, on the one hand my old dog had stomach cancer which wasn't diagnosed until it was too late and I want to give Ferdie the best care, on the other hand I don't want to put him through procedures that are not required.
A couple of notes, he's insured so money isn't an object and I trust my vet, so am comfortable she's not doing it for the money. Also when I have tried to change his food previously, even from different flavours within the range he has lost weight within a week.
Any recommendations or advice?
First of all get the two vets talking to one another, find out why one is worried the other isn't.
Secondly if he has good exercise tolerance, good muscle tone, good coat etc then being a bit slim is fine. However if he struggles to hold weight with sl illness/ change of food maybe he does have a sensitive digestion that should be checked out.
At this point all I would want is an ultrasound scans by a proper certificated ultrasonagrapher. Personally I would be holding off endoscopy and such unless he starts getting more bouts of illness, ultimately it is your decision and you need to go with what you feel comfortable with, anything you are not, you need to discuss further.
What breed is he and what is his weight? Is he neutered?
Eta Ultrasound should require sedation at most and is non invasive (save a lot of shaved hair!) Endoscopy and biopsies require a full Ga and can leave them a bit sore after.
A test I would ask them.to do is a Folate/cobalamin and b12 blood test. Easy to do and useful to ck how the guts are performing. Low b12 can be a significant find and easily treated with supplements.
Secondly if he has good exercise tolerance, good muscle tone, good coat etc then being a bit slim is fine. However if he struggles to hold weight with sl illness/ change of food maybe he does have a sensitive digestion that should be checked out.
At this point all I would want is an ultrasound scans by a proper certificated ultrasonagrapher. Personally I would be holding off endoscopy and such unless he starts getting more bouts of illness, ultimately it is your decision and you need to go with what you feel comfortable with, anything you are not, you need to discuss further.
What breed is he and what is his weight? Is he neutered?
Eta Ultrasound should require sedation at most and is non invasive (save a lot of shaved hair!) Endoscopy and biopsies require a full Ga and can leave them a bit sore after.
A test I would ask them.to do is a Folate/cobalamin and b12 blood test. Easy to do and useful to ck how the guts are performing. Low b12 can be a significant find and easily treated with supplements.
Edited by bexVN on Monday 27th April 17:36
Thanks Bex, it seems strange and unprofessional that each vet seems to be saying the other is wrong, with me stuck in the middle.
He's an entire, short but big boned border collie who weighed 22.8 kg, on the Monday, dropping to 22.35 kg on the Wednesday.
I'll have a word and request the 2 blood tests.
Thanks again Bed.
He's an entire, short but big boned border collie who weighed 22.8 kg, on the Monday, dropping to 22.35 kg on the Wednesday.
I'll have a word and request the 2 blood tests.
Thanks again Bed.
Figured you'd say he was entire. Fits in with the slimmer shape. Weight seems reasonable obviously pics would confirm it to me.
It.may seem a bit unprofessional but I suspect the vet advising treatment is being very cautious (maybe they've dealt with a case showing similar patterns patterns) and poss just not used to seeing slim dog, sadly some vets are just too used to seeing heavy dogs these days!! the other vet maybe older possibly bit more aware that some dogs are like this but would consider further work up if another but of problems. Speculation really but just trying to show why mixing vets in one case can be confusing esp if they don't talk to each other about it!
Oh that should have been TLI/Folate/Cobalamin! + B12
It.may seem a bit unprofessional but I suspect the vet advising treatment is being very cautious (maybe they've dealt with a case showing similar patterns patterns) and poss just not used to seeing slim dog, sadly some vets are just too used to seeing heavy dogs these days!! the other vet maybe older possibly bit more aware that some dogs are like this but would consider further work up if another but of problems. Speculation really but just trying to show why mixing vets in one case can be confusing esp if they don't talk to each other about it!
Oh that should have been TLI/Folate/Cobalamin! + B12
Edited by bexVN on Monday 27th April 22:04
Edited by bexVN on Monday 27th April 22:05
|http://thumbsnap.com/nKXBxc6j[/urlI know what you mean, my old collie had a thick coat!
What an absolute beaut, handsome and lovely colouring. I'd love to get my hands on him (I do weight watcher clinics at work, I can tell you very quickly the condition of a dog by touch!)
He looks superb, yes slim but not unhealthily so.
Hope you get to sort your concerns out. As I said maybe a compromise on line of ttreatment. Don't want to go against a vets advice but understand your thoughts aswell esp when receiving different opinions.
What an absolute beaut, handsome and lovely colouring. I'd love to get my hands on him (I do weight watcher clinics at work, I can tell you very quickly the condition of a dog by touch!)
He looks superb, yes slim but not unhealthily so.
Hope you get to sort your concerns out. As I said maybe a compromise on line of ttreatment. Don't want to go against a vets advice but understand your thoughts aswell esp when receiving different opinions.
My collie is very slim, looks a bit underweight, whatever we feed him he stays the same!! My JR piles it on really quick and has taken 2 years to slim him down!!
Can't really help, but my collie really pushes himself when out and exercises hard, so no real surprise he stays slim. Me and him are quite similar in build and exercise habbits!
Vets checked him over and said the same as one of yours, maybe a touch underweight but fine in appearance and about right. Plus his stools are like clockwork and always look the same!
Difficult one, I've seen with vets, some go down "worst case scenario" pathway, others say, "should be ok wait and see" when seeing them over things that aren't straightforward.
Can't really help, but my collie really pushes himself when out and exercises hard, so no real surprise he stays slim. Me and him are quite similar in build and exercise habbits!
Vets checked him over and said the same as one of yours, maybe a touch underweight but fine in appearance and about right. Plus his stools are like clockwork and always look the same!
Difficult one, I've seen with vets, some go down "worst case scenario" pathway, others say, "should be ok wait and see" when seeing them over things that aren't straightforward.
I've had a word and will do some tests, the vets are going to have a chat and then come back to me about which ones.
The real thing that is nagging at me is that I feel like I should have done more with my old boy who had an inflammatory bowel, once this was diagnosed we put weight loss and tummy upsets down to flare ups of this when he actually generated stomach cancer which was diagnosed when it was too late. My head is telling me it's fine, but unless I run tests I'm going to think the worst and become obsessed with his weight when I should be enjoying him.
The real thing that is nagging at me is that I feel like I should have done more with my old boy who had an inflammatory bowel, once this was diagnosed we put weight loss and tummy upsets down to flare ups of this when he actually generated stomach cancer which was diagnosed when it was too late. My head is telling me it's fine, but unless I run tests I'm going to think the worst and become obsessed with his weight when I should be enjoying him.
Completely understand your worry, given your history, so that's Why think it is right to start with the non invasive procedures first then go from there.
This is probably no consolation but even an earlier diagnosis of a stomach cancer would have been bad news re: ttreatment, prognosis. It is not a cancer that we see so often though.
This is probably no consolation but even an earlier diagnosis of a stomach cancer would have been bad news re: ttreatment, prognosis. It is not a cancer that we see so often though.
I don't know, just that is the combined test that the lab tends to run. They all interlink I guess but not so much my job to know the ins and outs, just to collect samples and send off.
TLI/Folate/Cobalamin and b12 are all gut related tests.
However it makes good sense to just cover a potential (though admittedly less likely issue) problem noting diarrhoea and qk wt loss if off normal diet etc
TLI/Folate/Cobalamin and b12 are all gut related tests.
However it makes good sense to just cover a potential (though admittedly less likely issue) problem noting diarrhoea and qk wt loss if off normal diet etc
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 28th April 19:07
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 28th April 19:09
bexVN said:
I don't know, just that is the combined test that the lab tends to run. They all interlink I guess but not so much my job to know the ins and outs, just to collect samples and send off.
TLI/Folate/Cobalamin and b12 are all gut related tests.
However it makes good sense to just cover a potential (though admittedly less likely issue) problem noting diarrhoea and qk wt loss if off normal diet etc
Ah I see fair enough I suppose TLI/Folate/Cobalamin and b12 are all gut related tests.
However it makes good sense to just cover a potential (though admittedly less likely issue) problem noting diarrhoea and qk wt loss if off normal diet etc
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 28th April 19:07
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 28th April 19:09
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