Destructive & persistent scratching - end of the road?
Discussion
Not a clue, but I'm wishing you & Alfie every success
Eta - can you get a referral to Fitzpatrick? Sounds like the sort of case they'd like to help with!
http://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co.uk
Eta - can you get a referral to Fitzpatrick? Sounds like the sort of case they'd like to help with!
http://www.fitzpatrickreferrals.co.uk
Edited by ali_kat on Tuesday 10th February 17:04
I'm guessing you've done this, but try shaving off all the fur under his chin?
I've done this with both my cats when they've had something that has been really irritating them. In one case even though I couldn't see anything wrong it just seemed to ease the irritation right down and it didn't come back, and in the other case it was a burst infection / bad cut that just wouldn't heal until I removed the fur which let it scab over, but again it primarily reduced the irritation and stopped the scratching.
I've done this with both my cats when they've had something that has been really irritating them. In one case even though I couldn't see anything wrong it just seemed to ease the irritation right down and it didn't come back, and in the other case it was a burst infection / bad cut that just wouldn't heal until I removed the fur which let it scab over, but again it primarily reduced the irritation and stopped the scratching.
Shaving wouldn't be a bad idea even if just to help keep the area clean.
Re hypoallergenic diets that is a good one but it may be worth trying a diet of sweet potato and fish like trout for 6 weeks and absolutely nothing else at all.
Malacetic wipes on the area of irritation won't hurt to try but probably not going to be the solution unfortunately.
Fair point re the steroids I suppose, though we get good results with the desensitisation treatments and gave quite a few dogs on them.
I feel for you, skin problems esp this severe are very distressing for all concerned, still have a niggle that this could be a psychological issue even though the likes of Selgian etc hasn't worked.
This behaviour is ringing a bell with me and I think an MRI is sensible but I can't recall the case enough. If I remember more I will let you know.
Re hypoallergenic diets that is a good one but it may be worth trying a diet of sweet potato and fish like trout for 6 weeks and absolutely nothing else at all.
Malacetic wipes on the area of irritation won't hurt to try but probably not going to be the solution unfortunately.
Fair point re the steroids I suppose, though we get good results with the desensitisation treatments and gave quite a few dogs on them.
I feel for you, skin problems esp this severe are very distressing for all concerned, still have a niggle that this could be a psychological issue even though the likes of Selgian etc hasn't worked.
This behaviour is ringing a bell with me and I think an MRI is sensible but I can't recall the case enough. If I remember more I will let you know.
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 10th February 19:29
Homemade I'm afraid. Trout is not a fish you'd normally see in a dog food so what could be classed as a novel protein so would be better than salmon or white fish for him
An example of what to do:
http://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/homemade-fish-sweet-...
An example of what to do:
http://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/homemade-fish-sweet-...
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 10th February 20:03
https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behavio...
I'm sure you have scoured the net for info, the above has some good info, I'm sure most you have tried but you may want to throw everything at this, ie behaviour modifications, distraction methods, hypoallergenic diet, medication possibly and maybe even a behaviourist at the same time.
If the MRI rules out anything (and I am assuming there is no chance of a problem with teeth!) I think this is looking more to be behavioural and will not be easy to get on top of
I'm sure you have scoured the net for info, the above has some good info, I'm sure most you have tried but you may want to throw everything at this, ie behaviour modifications, distraction methods, hypoallergenic diet, medication possibly and maybe even a behaviourist at the same time.
If the MRI rules out anything (and I am assuming there is no chance of a problem with teeth!) I think this is looking more to be behavioural and will not be easy to get on top of
Poor little Alfie, I really hope you find out what's wrong with him.
We're currently going though a similar thing (but much less severe) with our 7 month old golden retriever - he constantly scratches his undercarriage. This stops when he's given steroids but they upset his stomach. He had demodex mites when he was younger (they aren't usually itchy) and a few Aludex baths cleared this up. We're off to see the specialists at the vet school in Edinburgh next week to see if they can help him.
Meantime back to Alfie, have you thought of putting him in kennels for a few days just in case it's a reaction to something in his home or garden.
We're currently going though a similar thing (but much less severe) with our 7 month old golden retriever - he constantly scratches his undercarriage. This stops when he's given steroids but they upset his stomach. He had demodex mites when he was younger (they aren't usually itchy) and a few Aludex baths cleared this up. We're off to see the specialists at the vet school in Edinburgh next week to see if they can help him.
Meantime back to Alfie, have you thought of putting him in kennels for a few days just in case it's a reaction to something in his home or garden.
I'm just suggesting this for the sake of it, I have no experience or background in dog medical care - but are any of those previous drugs anti biotics? Have you checked his teeth? Have you pushed your finger up into the soft tissue between the jaw bones behind the chin? Have you pushed down under the tongue?
Could it be a Multiple Sclerosis-type of thing? http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Symptoms-Diagnosi...
"itching may occur suddenly and intensely, but for brief periods. It may be present over any part of the body or face. It is different from the generalized itching that can accompany an allergic reaction, as there is no external skin rash or irritation at the site of itching. Corticosteroid ointments applied to the skin are not helpful in relieving this type of dysesthetic itching. There are, however, several medications that are usually successful in treating dysesthetic itching"
Could it be one of those 'things' where a sensation is felt in one part of the body but is linked to a problem in another part of it?
Good luck with it.
Could it be a Multiple Sclerosis-type of thing? http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Symptoms-Diagnosi...
"itching may occur suddenly and intensely, but for brief periods. It may be present over any part of the body or face. It is different from the generalized itching that can accompany an allergic reaction, as there is no external skin rash or irritation at the site of itching. Corticosteroid ointments applied to the skin are not helpful in relieving this type of dysesthetic itching. There are, however, several medications that are usually successful in treating dysesthetic itching"
Could it be one of those 'things' where a sensation is felt in one part of the body but is linked to a problem in another part of it?
Good luck with it.
bexVN said:
Vet nurse only I'm afraid 
And a fine vet in the making from what I've seen, should you be that way inclined...!bexVN said:
Maybe the MRI will help show for this type of thing, I'm not aware that dogs actually get MS but looking along that idea would be worth it to be thorough.
...and yes you did!
...and yes you did!
Good luck OP
Hi. I'm afraid I have nothing useful to add except I hope Alfie's problems are resolved very soon.
We (well my Mum & Dad) also have a 6 year old Tibetan Terrier, Millie. She seems to go through itchy phases (nothing as serious as Alfie) but it has never been fully resolved. It doesn't affect her face/head though, more the opposite end & the vet hasn't able to give a definitive answer. Flea allergies, glands etc have been suggested but, anyway touch wood, she's ok at the moment.
The only thing Mille does that is similar to Alfie is she can't stand having a dirty face, so as soon as she's had her food or a drink she's rubbing her face all over the carpet/sofa/your trousers!....but it's definitely nowhere near the extent to what Alfie goes to so I'm sure it's un-related.
The only other thing I can think is that Mille had to have teeth out a couple of years ago...although they weren't causing her any problems but the vet said they had 'gone bad'. She's got a mis-aligned jaw so the bottom jaw sticks out a bit which contributed to the teeth problem apparently....but I'm sure if this applied to Alfie at all then the vet would have been on to that.
Good luck.
Cheers, Ben.
We (well my Mum & Dad) also have a 6 year old Tibetan Terrier, Millie. She seems to go through itchy phases (nothing as serious as Alfie) but it has never been fully resolved. It doesn't affect her face/head though, more the opposite end & the vet hasn't able to give a definitive answer. Flea allergies, glands etc have been suggested but, anyway touch wood, she's ok at the moment.
The only thing Mille does that is similar to Alfie is she can't stand having a dirty face, so as soon as she's had her food or a drink she's rubbing her face all over the carpet/sofa/your trousers!....but it's definitely nowhere near the extent to what Alfie goes to so I'm sure it's un-related.
The only other thing I can think is that Mille had to have teeth out a couple of years ago...although they weren't causing her any problems but the vet said they had 'gone bad'. She's got a mis-aligned jaw so the bottom jaw sticks out a bit which contributed to the teeth problem apparently....but I'm sure if this applied to Alfie at all then the vet would have been on to that.
Good luck.
Cheers, Ben.
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