Diabetic Cat. Unsure What to Do?
Discussion
We spotted something amiss a few weeks ago with our cat and I put it down to him having eaten something he shouldn't. This has happened at this time of year before so we've previously assumed coolant or rock-salt poisoning and after a few weeks of being off colour he's previously gradually returned to normal. Anyway, for a cat that's always refused water he had started gulping the stuff down. Doesn't appear to have lost any weight, or appetite, but did seem a bit bonier and more lethargic. So we took him for some tests and the vet spotted sugar in his urine. We waited a couple of days though and took a urine sample at home and that still came back with glucose in. So he's had a blood test which has confirmed high fructosamine levels (c600 compared to the max normal guideline of 350). No other traces of any problems were found apparently.
As a consequence the vet has judged that he must be diabetic. The ramifications being that he'd have to go through a series of blood tests and insulin injections to determine the right balance of insulin he'd need to be injected with, and that for the first year it'd probably end up costing about £1500.
My concern though is that the fructosmine levels might still only be betraying signs of a recent illness, if that's possible. So if he has licked/eaten something he shouldn't have a couple of weeks back, that could be skewing the results. He's also an immense stress head, that's even been known to scare himself, so surely that could lead to elevated fructosamine levels?
Since the blood test was done we've noticed a change back to normal with him as well. Activity has gone up, he doesn't look depressed anymore, he seems to be eating reasonably normally and drinking a bit less, and his coat has improved. I'm in 2 minds as to what to do now, as I don't want to rush into insulin injections if this passes, but neither do I want to cause any further harm by not proceeding if there is something wrong!
ETA: His weight appears to have remained constant throughout and, after a short period of feeling a little bony, he's back to feeling normal to the touch again. He did drop from 6kg to 5.87kg when they took his bloods but then he'd been deprived of food all day so maybe nothing significant?
Anyone able to offer any input or help on this?
As a consequence the vet has judged that he must be diabetic. The ramifications being that he'd have to go through a series of blood tests and insulin injections to determine the right balance of insulin he'd need to be injected with, and that for the first year it'd probably end up costing about £1500.
My concern though is that the fructosmine levels might still only be betraying signs of a recent illness, if that's possible. So if he has licked/eaten something he shouldn't have a couple of weeks back, that could be skewing the results. He's also an immense stress head, that's even been known to scare himself, so surely that could lead to elevated fructosamine levels?
Since the blood test was done we've noticed a change back to normal with him as well. Activity has gone up, he doesn't look depressed anymore, he seems to be eating reasonably normally and drinking a bit less, and his coat has improved. I'm in 2 minds as to what to do now, as I don't want to rush into insulin injections if this passes, but neither do I want to cause any further harm by not proceeding if there is something wrong!
ETA: His weight appears to have remained constant throughout and, after a short period of feeling a little bony, he's back to feeling normal to the touch again. He did drop from 6kg to 5.87kg when they took his bloods but then he'd been deprived of food all day so maybe nothing significant?
Anyone able to offer any input or help on this?
Sorry, I don't know enough about diabetes in Cats to help
i do hope that you get this sorted out.
Your Vet (if they are good!) won't want you giving insulin to a cat that doens't need it however, it sounds to me like you need to take him back to the Vet now he is a bit better to run the tests again.
It could be that, like humans, the diabetes (if that is what it is) can be controlled by diet?
i do hope that you get this sorted out.
Your Vet (if they are good!) won't want you giving insulin to a cat that doens't need it however, it sounds to me like you need to take him back to the Vet now he is a bit better to run the tests again.
It could be that, like humans, the diabetes (if that is what it is) can be controlled by diet?
Sugar in urine is very indiciative (even in stressed cats) Fructosamine is a very reliable idicator for diabetes as it assesses levels for the previous few weeks so won't be affected by stress. I have never known it to be used for anything else) 130g wt loss is too much for one days starving but not a huge amount overall. Stressed cats can raise glucose levels but it depends on the amount the reading is. When you combine high blood glucose,glucose in urine and high fructosamine is definitely indicates diabetes. glucose levels are rarely raised by eating/ licking the right things without other levels being affected (such as kidney enzymes)
Cats can recover if caught early enough but often they're seen too late and uaually they only recover with help initially. Sometimes diet alone will work but it's a case by case situation.
Start by repeating the urine test maybe?
Cats can recover if caught early enough but often they're seen too late and uaually they only recover with help initially. Sometimes diet alone will work but it's a case by case situation.
Start by repeating the urine test maybe?
Edited by bexVN on Friday 8th February 22:41
This cat is almost certainly diabetic (only other differentials are pretty rare in cats, Cushings or maybe acromegaly). As said above, there needs to be a sustained hyperglycaemia to increase the fructo to that extent. The key here is to determine whether this is type I (absolute insulin deficiency) or type II (insulin resistance). Insulin / glucose ratio should do this. Insulin injs for the former, diet initially for the latter. I do not agree that it will cost 1500 in a year to stabilise this cat, I've done it for a fraction of this provided the cat is not too far into the disease (ketoacidotic).
Start with really low insulin doses and measure water intake (food + drink) religiously. Increase really slowly. When you get down to 45-55ml per kg you'll be on about the right dose, takes time though.
Start with really low insulin doses and measure water intake (food + drink) religiously. Increase really slowly. When you get down to 45-55ml per kg you'll be on about the right dose, takes time though.
Cheers all. We've agreed to take him in to start on insulin in a couple of weeks. In the meantime I'm going to get some urinanalysis strips to keep an eye on him. My doubts largely stem from the fact that we've seen this behaviour in the past at about this time of year and he's then recovered.
What are teh best ways to keep costs down? I take it blood tests can only really be done by the vet?
What are teh best ways to keep costs down? I take it blood tests can only really be done by the vet?
Bloods shouldn't need to be done too often, esp once stabilised. We have a few cats that do very well just having fructosamine checked every 3 months.
Main insulin used these days is Caninsulin (though there are more effective ones for cats but I think they are harder to obtain?) It is available in small vials which is better than buying a 10ml bottle (you won't use it quickly enough so will end up throwing over half of it away!!)
Cost may ensue if your cat doesn't stabilise and blood glucose curves have to be done. I find this happens to dogs more as it's often unreliable in cats due to stress.
It will help to feed a good high meat low carb diet (such as applaws) but for now keep diet the same, unless your vets advise otherwise. There are Px diets for diabetic cats that will help but are expensive, but you should discuss this with your vet.
Main insulin used these days is Caninsulin (though there are more effective ones for cats but I think they are harder to obtain?) It is available in small vials which is better than buying a 10ml bottle (you won't use it quickly enough so will end up throwing over half of it away!!)
Cost may ensue if your cat doesn't stabilise and blood glucose curves have to be done. I find this happens to dogs more as it's often unreliable in cats due to stress.
It will help to feed a good high meat low carb diet (such as applaws) but for now keep diet the same, unless your vets advise otherwise. There are Px diets for diabetic cats that will help but are expensive, but you should discuss this with your vet.
Well, this is all very odd. We held off getting him on insulin as we were going away for a few days and the vet was away for a week.
Picked him up from the cattery on Monday and they said he'd been right as rain. No excessive water consumption or urination, and nothing like what the other diabetic cats are like that they look after.
Sure enough, we've had hime home 2 days now and the water consumption is back to normal (i.e. he doesn't really bother with it) and urination is back to normal (once a day if he's kept in). His coat is looking great, his eyes are bright again, his strength appears to have returned, and he's tearing round like an idiot again.
The only thing is that he's hankering for food regularly still, but for the last 2 weeks he's been fed on a "little but often" basis and we've stuck rigidly to wet food with good protein levels.
So what on earth is going on? I have some Diastyx so when his litter tray is due for changing I'm going to test his glucose again.
Picked him up from the cattery on Monday and they said he'd been right as rain. No excessive water consumption or urination, and nothing like what the other diabetic cats are like that they look after.
Sure enough, we've had hime home 2 days now and the water consumption is back to normal (i.e. he doesn't really bother with it) and urination is back to normal (once a day if he's kept in). His coat is looking great, his eyes are bright again, his strength appears to have returned, and he's tearing round like an idiot again.
The only thing is that he's hankering for food regularly still, but for the last 2 weeks he's been fed on a "little but often" basis and we've stuck rigidly to wet food with good protein levels.
So what on earth is going on? I have some Diastyx so when his litter tray is due for changing I'm going to test his glucose again.
Very odd! It may well be worth repeating the tests he's had so results can be compared then take it from there. I would spk to your vet as soon as they're back at work.
This is not a normal scenario! Would be great if everything is back to normal but very unusual without some type of treatment
This is not a normal scenario! Would be great if everything is back to normal but very unusual without some type of treatment
Well, we're 12 months on and the old boy's still going!
Reading back I'd forgotten how hopeful we were of reversal of his condition this time last year. It hasn't reversed at all, and we'd decided that we weren't going to treat him with insulin. He was a very, very nervious cat and neither of us was convinced it would go well. So we took the decision to let him see his days out, with the view that as soon as he started to look like he was no longer enjoying life we'd take him for his last visit to the vets. When it came to having his vaccinations in March the Vet told us it wasn't worth bothering as he'd likely not even see another 3 months.
By June he was still gonig but had lost a bit of weight and had started to feel bony. Nonetheless he went in the cattery for 2 weeks when we went away and was fine. By September he still seemed relatively stable so, knowing we were going away again for a long weekend and the cattery wanted him vaccinated, we decided to see the vet. He was gobsmacked to see him it's fair to say. He was weighed at 4.25kg, so had lost 1.75kg. Had his jabs and that was that. Xmas came and went with no sign of change and he's still plodding along. We've not had hime weighed since Sept but I'm convinced he's not dropped any further. I don't know if we're doing something particularly special, or whether it helps he's such a naturally large cat but something's working.
When all this started last year we cut out the dried food, and started to feed him on a mix of Animonda Integra Protect (diabetes one from Zooplus) mixed in with regular cat food and also small helpings of fresh offal from the butcher's (heart, liver and kidney). Early on we were also adding in some very small amounts of goose fat with his food, that we had left over from Xmas 2012, but we've since stopped this. We've since been getting the Lily's Kitchen dried biscuits in order to bulk his food out and it helps keeps things solid most of the time - they're one of the few dried foods that has no cereals in and are made purely from meat IIRC. We got him a timed cat feeder and he has 4 meals a day, with a very small portion of biscuits in the early evening.
By and large he seems as happy as larry, and still has plenty of energy if there's food on the go. His character has also changed markedly. He wouldn't approach strangers before and our cat-loving neighbours never succeeded in getting him to come over to them. He'd also get scared easily and would run off if you so much as moved. He couldn't be more different now - will approach anyone, won't budge even if he's right in the way, and has taken to trying to climb in the neighbour's kitchen window or through the front door to eat their cat's food! Family are stunnedat being able to pick him up and stroke him after 10yrs of not getting near him! He can be a bit wobbly on some days and even fell down the stairs yesterday as his back legs seemed tohave gone to sleep, but he seems to just pick himself back up again and within a day or so he's right as rain and charging about. He certainly doesn't seem to have rear leg strength issues - this is his usual position when getting fed and when we're preparing food:
Reading back I'd forgotten how hopeful we were of reversal of his condition this time last year. It hasn't reversed at all, and we'd decided that we weren't going to treat him with insulin. He was a very, very nervious cat and neither of us was convinced it would go well. So we took the decision to let him see his days out, with the view that as soon as he started to look like he was no longer enjoying life we'd take him for his last visit to the vets. When it came to having his vaccinations in March the Vet told us it wasn't worth bothering as he'd likely not even see another 3 months.
By June he was still gonig but had lost a bit of weight and had started to feel bony. Nonetheless he went in the cattery for 2 weeks when we went away and was fine. By September he still seemed relatively stable so, knowing we were going away again for a long weekend and the cattery wanted him vaccinated, we decided to see the vet. He was gobsmacked to see him it's fair to say. He was weighed at 4.25kg, so had lost 1.75kg. Had his jabs and that was that. Xmas came and went with no sign of change and he's still plodding along. We've not had hime weighed since Sept but I'm convinced he's not dropped any further. I don't know if we're doing something particularly special, or whether it helps he's such a naturally large cat but something's working.
When all this started last year we cut out the dried food, and started to feed him on a mix of Animonda Integra Protect (diabetes one from Zooplus) mixed in with regular cat food and also small helpings of fresh offal from the butcher's (heart, liver and kidney). Early on we were also adding in some very small amounts of goose fat with his food, that we had left over from Xmas 2012, but we've since stopped this. We've since been getting the Lily's Kitchen dried biscuits in order to bulk his food out and it helps keeps things solid most of the time - they're one of the few dried foods that has no cereals in and are made purely from meat IIRC. We got him a timed cat feeder and he has 4 meals a day, with a very small portion of biscuits in the early evening.
By and large he seems as happy as larry, and still has plenty of energy if there's food on the go. His character has also changed markedly. He wouldn't approach strangers before and our cat-loving neighbours never succeeded in getting him to come over to them. He'd also get scared easily and would run off if you so much as moved. He couldn't be more different now - will approach anyone, won't budge even if he's right in the way, and has taken to trying to climb in the neighbour's kitchen window or through the front door to eat their cat's food! Family are stunnedat being able to pick him up and stroke him after 10yrs of not getting near him! He can be a bit wobbly on some days and even fell down the stairs yesterday as his back legs seemed tohave gone to sleep, but he seems to just pick himself back up again and within a day or so he's right as rain and charging about. He certainly doesn't seem to have rear leg strength issues - this is his usual position when getting fed and when we're preparing food:
Well, the old boy didn't quite make 2 years (next month).
Last Sunday it was clear he'd probably (yet again!) eaten something he shouldn't as he was moping about. 2 days later and he sicked up a load of onions. Someone must have left some food out - I will have a chat with neighbours about this as he's thrown up onions in the past.
Anyway, he no longer had the constitution to recover, probably not helped by him taking 2 days to vomit up the offending toxins. We tried syringe feeding but he stopped accepting it on NYE and passed away late on NY Day. Sad times but it was going to happen at some point and I felt after his last "episode" he wouldn't make it through another. A real shame though given that he seemed to be coping well with diabetes, untreated.
It's a very quiet house now we're back to zero pets after more than 11 years
Last Sunday it was clear he'd probably (yet again!) eaten something he shouldn't as he was moping about. 2 days later and he sicked up a load of onions. Someone must have left some food out - I will have a chat with neighbours about this as he's thrown up onions in the past.
Anyway, he no longer had the constitution to recover, probably not helped by him taking 2 days to vomit up the offending toxins. We tried syringe feeding but he stopped accepting it on NYE and passed away late on NY Day. Sad times but it was going to happen at some point and I felt after his last "episode" he wouldn't make it through another. A real shame though given that he seemed to be coping well with diabetes, untreated.
It's a very quiet house now we're back to zero pets after more than 11 years
If it's the neighbours I think it is then they likely genuinely won't be aware about onions being an issue - they're a lovely bunch with their own characterful old moggie, and they've done us some very big favours this year.
I'll certainly be having a chat with them, but will keep it friendly. They'll probably be gutted if they twig it may be partially their fault. End of the day though his condition meant he would eat things he shouldn't, and we caught him enough times doing so. It was a matter of time.
I'll certainly be having a chat with them, but will keep it friendly. They'll probably be gutted if they twig it may be partially their fault. End of the day though his condition meant he would eat things he shouldn't, and we caught him enough times doing so. It was a matter of time.
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