Pretty horrific costs to diagnose my dogs limp.
Discussion
My staff has been limping a bit for the last 6 weeks or so. At first i wasn't too worried as i know what these dogs are like (lunatic) and in my experience they often tend to hurt themselves.
Anyway the last few days its been worrying us more as it hasn't gone at all and i think it may be getting worse. My mum managed to take him to the vets today....
£83 for some painkillers and consultation and then the big one
£6?? for xray and anesthetic!
So to diagnose the problem its about £700.
Looking on google this seems to be very expensive compared to others costs, the highest i could see for this sort of thing was £531 for xray of both front legs and anesthetic on a labrador. I would guess his weight is near labrador at 24kgs.
I'm now worried theres going to be crazy costs involved after the diagnosis.
He is insured and i'm not too sure what exactly im posting for. Just maybe see what others experiences are perhaps?
I think i'm going to ring the vet tomorrow and question costs, i dont like doing it but i feel they are milking it a bit tbh.
The vet has used the old classic of 'hes in pain' how do we know hes in pain? we dont have a clue (vet said that) what the problem is yet.
I have had some silly bills off vets in the past and am a bit fed up with it really, i appreciate a dog costs money but i can't help feeling some (not all) vets are activly looking for reasons to incur cost.
Anyway the last few days its been worrying us more as it hasn't gone at all and i think it may be getting worse. My mum managed to take him to the vets today....
£83 for some painkillers and consultation and then the big one
£6?? for xray and anesthetic!
So to diagnose the problem its about £700.
Looking on google this seems to be very expensive compared to others costs, the highest i could see for this sort of thing was £531 for xray of both front legs and anesthetic on a labrador. I would guess his weight is near labrador at 24kgs.
I'm now worried theres going to be crazy costs involved after the diagnosis.
He is insured and i'm not too sure what exactly im posting for. Just maybe see what others experiences are perhaps?
I think i'm going to ring the vet tomorrow and question costs, i dont like doing it but i feel they are milking it a bit tbh.
The vet has used the old classic of 'hes in pain' how do we know hes in pain? we dont have a clue (vet said that) what the problem is yet.
I have had some silly bills off vets in the past and am a bit fed up with it really, i appreciate a dog costs money but i can't help feeling some (not all) vets are activly looking for reasons to incur cost.
I agree. Sounds high. Definitely phone and question it. Get it broken down. They will prob need to do a few different views and it does add up but I'd think £350 approx (and we're not cheap)
Your dog is in pain, he wouldn't be lame if if wasn't and investigating is the right thing to do esp as it's gone on for so long. Just because he's insured doesn't mean you shouldn't ck costs an ins can always refuse to pay and you could be left with the bill.
Hope your dog is ok
Your dog is in pain, he wouldn't be lame if if wasn't and investigating is the right thing to do esp as it's gone on for so long. Just because he's insured doesn't mean you shouldn't ck costs an ins can always refuse to pay and you could be left with the bill.
Hope your dog is ok
Rooster said:
is it the rear leg, if so it may be that he has a problem with his cruceate ligament. I had two dogs that had this, quite a hefty amount to repair this and in the end both rear legs had the same problem.
This was what I was thinking immediately as well. But £600 for X-Rays is a bit steep IMHO, I've had x-rays followed by ultrasound (which took us about an hour, and I mean us, I was helping the two vets), and I don't think that cost more than £300 or so. And drugs for such a small dog can't be that expensive so I can't see them getting away with that one.
Cruciate op is IME 3.5k or so. Having had two of them done on dogs in the past.......And it's worth getting it done properly as well as undertaking the proper recovery plan as well (it's f***ng hard work but still).
It's worth talking to the vet and checking exactly what was done.
Thanks for the replies, its his front leg, although i'm not sure which one. I have had a feel about and he hasn't yelped and i haven't felt anything which didn't feel right. That said he did let me look though which for him is unusual.
I think he may have an injury from jumping out of my work van. He is obsessed (i mean really obsessed) with sitting in it. I don't know why but he would very happily sit there all day, on his own too.
Thinking back to when we first noticed a limp i remember him jumping out and not quite getting it right, he landed pretty hard and i though it looked a bit harsh.
Staffs as they are though are very resiliant and not what i would call moaners. I just didn't think much of it iykwim. It really is a minor limp, sometimes not even noticible, others more so.
My mum suspected arthritis but im now convinced its something to do with jumping out the van.
I think he may have an injury from jumping out of my work van. He is obsessed (i mean really obsessed) with sitting in it. I don't know why but he would very happily sit there all day, on his own too.
Thinking back to when we first noticed a limp i remember him jumping out and not quite getting it right, he landed pretty hard and i though it looked a bit harsh.
Staffs as they are though are very resiliant and not what i would call moaners. I just didn't think much of it iykwim. It really is a minor limp, sometimes not even noticible, others more so.
My mum suspected arthritis but im now convinced its something to do with jumping out the van.
If the source of the pain isn't obvious then it's not uncommon to take radiographs of the whole leg and possibly the other leg (to compare) to ensure nothing's missed.
£600 is high but if your in an expensive part of the country and your dog had pre GA bloods and fluids under the GA then I can see how a bill could get that high. At my place of work I've seen bills of £400-500 if a lot of radiographs have been taken, I work in a fairly poor area.
You should really have been given an itemised bill from your vets to show where the costs have come from, I'd definately be raising this if it's not clear how the costs arose.
£600 is high but if your in an expensive part of the country and your dog had pre GA bloods and fluids under the GA then I can see how a bill could get that high. At my place of work I've seen bills of £400-500 if a lot of radiographs have been taken, I work in a fairly poor area.
You should really have been given an itemised bill from your vets to show where the costs have come from, I'd definately be raising this if it's not clear how the costs arose.
My whippet cross had a cruciate ligament go on one of his rear legs a couple of years ago. The local vet is a decent surgeon and repaired it. The dog is now as good as new. The total cost including all the diagnostic xrays etc was just under £550. Maybe things are cheaper up here in the backwoods of Lincolnshire!
Slightly off topic, but indicative of costs up here, the same practice saved the life of one of my lurchers around the same time. She had been 'ill' for some time. Just a bit off colour, occasional cry of pain, it looked like a bad back. Lots of xrays, ultrasound, blood tests etc. Nothing found except a slightly raised white cell count, suggesting an infection. Antibiotics did nothing so we kept watch on her until she deteriorated one day. More ultrasound and this time a faint shadow suggesting an area of infection right near her heart, close to the main atrery and nerves. We were discussing sending her to the animal hospital at Cambridge for an operation to open her up and have a look. The vet was nervous at the proximity to the nerves and the artery. Our decision was made for us the next day when she nearly collapsed and lumps appeared on her back as the infection had suddenly spread. This was at 8am. She went straight in to the vet for an emergency operation. Two vets opened her up and found a huge abcess by her heart which contained about half a pint of pus and had burst. They had all her guts out on the table, washed and flushed everywhere and put her back together. It took two of them plus support staff four hours in total. She then had two days of intensive care on drips including two doses of human albumen from the local hospital. She then came home with some drains fitted in her back and eventually made a full recovery.
The bill? £1100. Not bad I thought. I have four dogs and don't have insurance as I think it works out cheaper to take the hit if necessary. Plus I have a suspicion that if an animal is insured, the bills are higher.
Slightly off topic, but indicative of costs up here, the same practice saved the life of one of my lurchers around the same time. She had been 'ill' for some time. Just a bit off colour, occasional cry of pain, it looked like a bad back. Lots of xrays, ultrasound, blood tests etc. Nothing found except a slightly raised white cell count, suggesting an infection. Antibiotics did nothing so we kept watch on her until she deteriorated one day. More ultrasound and this time a faint shadow suggesting an area of infection right near her heart, close to the main atrery and nerves. We were discussing sending her to the animal hospital at Cambridge for an operation to open her up and have a look. The vet was nervous at the proximity to the nerves and the artery. Our decision was made for us the next day when she nearly collapsed and lumps appeared on her back as the infection had suddenly spread. This was at 8am. She went straight in to the vet for an emergency operation. Two vets opened her up and found a huge abcess by her heart which contained about half a pint of pus and had burst. They had all her guts out on the table, washed and flushed everywhere and put her back together. It took two of them plus support staff four hours in total. She then had two days of intensive care on drips including two doses of human albumen from the local hospital. She then came home with some drains fitted in her back and eventually made a full recovery.
The bill? £1100. Not bad I thought. I have four dogs and don't have insurance as I think it works out cheaper to take the hit if necessary. Plus I have a suspicion that if an animal is insured, the bills are higher.
Impressive work on your vets part and the vet nurse doing the anaesthetic as without a good one your dog would never have survived the anaesthetic let alone the op. A very good bill must indeed be cheaper up in Lincoln.
But can I just state that bills should not be higher on insured pets if priced correctly as this is fraud and vets can be struck off for doing so. The exception may be that if not insured vets may offer an all in quote to help clients this sometimes is at a cost to the vet if under quoted.
But can I just state that bills should not be higher on insured pets if priced correctly as this is fraud and vets can be struck off for doing so. The exception may be that if not insured vets may offer an all in quote to help clients this sometimes is at a cost to the vet if under quoted.
bexVN said:
But can I just state that bills should not be higher on insured pets if priced correctly as this is fraud and vets can be struck off for doing so. The exception may be that if not insured vets may offer an all in quote to help clients this sometimes is at a cost to the vet if under quoted.
No all in quote from my vet, just what it cost. It's a bit like getting a dent fixed on your car. The first thing the repair shop asks is whether it's an insurance job. If not, the dent is popped out, a skim of filler, paint and away you go for not much money. If an insurance job, a new panel is required. It's the way of the world and naive to assume it doesn't happen in veterinary care or private medicine either. I reckon it's pretty widespread but how is the punter going to know? And it's policed by the the professionals themselves, by their governing body.rovermorris999 said:
bexVN said:
But can I just state that bills should not be higher on insured pets if priced correctly as this is fraud and vets can be struck off for doing so. The exception may be that if not insured vets may offer an all in quote to help clients this sometimes is at a cost to the vet if under quoted.
No all in quote from my vet, just what it cost. It's a bit like getting a dent fixed on your car. The first thing the repair shop asks is whether it's an insurance job. If not, the dent is popped out, a skim of filler, paint and away you go for not much money. If an insurance job, a new panel is required. It's the way of the world and naive to assume it doesn't happen in veterinary care or private medicine either. I reckon it's pretty widespread but how is the punter going to know? And it's policed by the the professionals themselves, by their governing body.rovermorris999 said:
So I'm wrong? I don't think so. It real life unfortunately.
I'm not saying you're wrong just it's not as prevelant as you are making it out to be. Vets are caught out, insurance companies themselves monitor. To be honest it's more hassle than it's worth to mess prices around clients to talk to each other!Little update.
A good friend of mine has always recomended his vet, i have always meant to use them instead of the one we use.
Today was a good opputunity to do so.
Got him down there, she checked him out and her verdict (which was the same as my mums originally) was that he has mild arthritis. Shamefully on my behalf he is overweight at about 25kgs or so, he should be 21! Admitidly we dont walk him as much as we should, he goes out for a good walk perhaps 4-5 times a week.
His legs also bow out which will accentuate any problems.
The thing is we don't feed him that much food, he barely eats all his dinner (james wellbeloved) and he gets very few scraps. We do however give him a few bits of fruit though. We were told this was fine but the vet today said that it would be doing no good combined with the other food he eats and occasional scraps. Those eyes are so hard to resist when hes looking up at you
Something is obviously causing his weight to be high though so we will be taking him to their free weight clinic (i know they will punt us the food they sell but its got to be worth a go).
She charged £39 including pain killers, she said at this stage its not worth x ray. She showed my mum (who took him down) the area of discomfort and its like knotty muscles i think she said.
So he is now on pain killers and our main objective is to get this weight off, hopefully then he will repair.
Thanks for all the replies.
A good friend of mine has always recomended his vet, i have always meant to use them instead of the one we use.
Today was a good opputunity to do so.
Got him down there, she checked him out and her verdict (which was the same as my mums originally) was that he has mild arthritis. Shamefully on my behalf he is overweight at about 25kgs or so, he should be 21! Admitidly we dont walk him as much as we should, he goes out for a good walk perhaps 4-5 times a week.
His legs also bow out which will accentuate any problems.
The thing is we don't feed him that much food, he barely eats all his dinner (james wellbeloved) and he gets very few scraps. We do however give him a few bits of fruit though. We were told this was fine but the vet today said that it would be doing no good combined with the other food he eats and occasional scraps. Those eyes are so hard to resist when hes looking up at you
Something is obviously causing his weight to be high though so we will be taking him to their free weight clinic (i know they will punt us the food they sell but its got to be worth a go).
She charged £39 including pain killers, she said at this stage its not worth x ray. She showed my mum (who took him down) the area of discomfort and its like knotty muscles i think she said.
So he is now on pain killers and our main objective is to get this weight off, hopefully then he will repair.
Thanks for all the replies.
I assume this was treated as a second opinion and your previous vets have been informed. You are completely within your rights to seek opinion from different vets but there are guidelines that should be followed.
Glad it seems to be arthritis, xrays would still be useful to assess the extent of the problem but it's fair enough to delay for now.
Hopefully you'll see a good weight watcher nurse (and you don't have to buy the diet food they recommend but it can help them re: a diet plan and monitoring) This is my area of expertise as I run weight watcher clinics and have done for a long time!!
They will talk you through amount of dog food to feed and what treats he can have and what to do instead of feeding scraps.
Think of this, feeding him 1 digestive biscuit would be like you eating 10 digestive biscuits in one go. Most people are horrified when I tell them this!
Anyway see how the clinic goes, any questions feel free to PM, I'm proud to say I have a really good success rate and I manage to help people realise where they've been going wrong re: there dogs diets.
Glad it seems to be arthritis, xrays would still be useful to assess the extent of the problem but it's fair enough to delay for now.
Hopefully you'll see a good weight watcher nurse (and you don't have to buy the diet food they recommend but it can help them re: a diet plan and monitoring) This is my area of expertise as I run weight watcher clinics and have done for a long time!!
They will talk you through amount of dog food to feed and what treats he can have and what to do instead of feeding scraps.
Think of this, feeding him 1 digestive biscuit would be like you eating 10 digestive biscuits in one go. Most people are horrified when I tell them this!
Anyway see how the clinic goes, any questions feel free to PM, I'm proud to say I have a really good success rate and I manage to help people realise where they've been going wrong re: there dogs diets.
Interesting. I doubt the RCVS would be prepared to take a stand in discussions about pricing, only in competence and other things like behaviour-related [ETA - vet, not dog behaviour] issues.
There is a reasonably competitive market in some aspects of human private healthcare with a range of prices for Trusts getting bulk buys of waiting list or freedom-of-choice patients done in the private sector, for self-pay and for insured patients.
I've always felt that it would be worth giving NHS patients an itemised breakdown of costs; not an invoice, but just for information so that they knew what the cost of what they'd had / missed was. As an example we've people who are sent for PET-CT (positron emission tomography + CT) to see if they've unexpectedly widespread cancer before we send them for potentially curative surgery (e.g. pneumonectomy for lung cancer); surgery which would be pointless if there was a distant metastasis in perhaps the brain or one of the pelvic bones. As this scan requires injection of a short half-life radioactive tracer which is only good for the day on which it is sent to the scanning centre, a special scanner and sub-specialist interpretation of the images, the NHS cost is about £900. We're amazed that sometimes people don't turn up... couldn't get there, man coming to read the meter etc.....
For people who don't use private healthcare it is only when they visit the dentist or the vet that they see how much the "free" NHS stuff costs.
However, it is interesting to compare the prices quoted by the OP with self-pay human imaging prices. I include a representative sample below. Was the £600 "X-ray" just plain films or was it plain films ("X-rays") plus CT or MRI imaging - I assume that for a potential joint problem MRI might have been employed as it is particularly valuable for ligaments, menisci etc. Here are our local self-pay private imaging prices: I don't know if 'MRI single body area' would cover both legs (£200) or if it would be an additional area (+£100). Of course most people don't need to be anaesthetised for scans: small children, agitated (e.g. head injury) patients excepted.
Ultrasound
Ultrasound of single body area £70
Additional body areas £35
Abdominal aneurysm screening £50
CT scans
CT scan of single body area £150
Additional areas £ 75
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI)
MRI of single body area £200
Additional areas £100
Please note that the abdomen and pelvis are examined as separate areas
Additional charge for Intravenous contrast
CT £ 25
MRI £ 50
There is a reasonably competitive market in some aspects of human private healthcare with a range of prices for Trusts getting bulk buys of waiting list or freedom-of-choice patients done in the private sector, for self-pay and for insured patients.
I've always felt that it would be worth giving NHS patients an itemised breakdown of costs; not an invoice, but just for information so that they knew what the cost of what they'd had / missed was. As an example we've people who are sent for PET-CT (positron emission tomography + CT) to see if they've unexpectedly widespread cancer before we send them for potentially curative surgery (e.g. pneumonectomy for lung cancer); surgery which would be pointless if there was a distant metastasis in perhaps the brain or one of the pelvic bones. As this scan requires injection of a short half-life radioactive tracer which is only good for the day on which it is sent to the scanning centre, a special scanner and sub-specialist interpretation of the images, the NHS cost is about £900. We're amazed that sometimes people don't turn up... couldn't get there, man coming to read the meter etc.....
For people who don't use private healthcare it is only when they visit the dentist or the vet that they see how much the "free" NHS stuff costs.
However, it is interesting to compare the prices quoted by the OP with self-pay human imaging prices. I include a representative sample below. Was the £600 "X-ray" just plain films or was it plain films ("X-rays") plus CT or MRI imaging - I assume that for a potential joint problem MRI might have been employed as it is particularly valuable for ligaments, menisci etc. Here are our local self-pay private imaging prices: I don't know if 'MRI single body area' would cover both legs (£200) or if it would be an additional area (+£100). Of course most people don't need to be anaesthetised for scans: small children, agitated (e.g. head injury) patients excepted.
Ultrasound
Ultrasound of single body area £70
Additional body areas £35
Abdominal aneurysm screening £50
CT scans
CT scan of single body area £150
Additional areas £ 75
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI)
MRI of single body area £200
Additional areas £100
Please note that the abdomen and pelvis are examined as separate areas
Additional charge for Intravenous contrast
CT £ 25
MRI £ 50
Edited by nomisesor on Wednesday 21st September 20:49
Edited by nomisesor on Thursday 22 September 08:57
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