Newbie question about how to (re) fit a bathroom
Discussion
Our house sale plans have fallen a little flat as noone has bought it, so we're going to change the kitchen and bathroom. We're going to get someone in to do the kitchen as it'll probably be a big job, but I'm debating whether to have a go at doing the bathroom and rope my neighbour in to help (he fitted his own and another neighbours).
The units will (probably) be replaced like for like and the taps, pipe, waste, etc will likely be left where they are.
Tasks that need to be done (in no particular order) will be:
PS, any PHers in North Lincs willing to lend a hand?
The units will (probably) be replaced like for like and the taps, pipe, waste, etc will likely be left where they are.
Tasks that need to be done (in no particular order) will be:
- Remove carpet and replace with lino/laminate
- Remove carpet from pipe boxing (don't ask) and possibly redo the pipe boxing (it's currently made out of wood chip and is, frankly, horrendous)
- Remove loo, sink and corner bath
- Replace the above with the same - The corner bath may, however, be replaced with a compact bath, the end result being that the bath taps may move
- Remove suspicious wood cladding and replace with tiles (I suspect that the wall may be in a s
tty state though...) - Replace fixtures and fittings for something a bit nicer
- Replace radiator with slightly narrower ladder style
PS, any PHers in North Lincs willing to lend a hand?
Edited by james_tigerwoods on Friday 20th August 08:42
I tried to do this for my own bathroom. I'm a competent DIYer but had never tackled anything that complex before.
I came to the conclusion that it was iopossible to nail down an exact running order in adavnce - there seemed to be areas where A depended on B but B depended on A... and in some areas you don't know what has to be done until you start.
In the end I took a different approach, starting from one side of the door and working round the room wall by wall. Wall 1: bath and shower, Wall 2: WC, Wall 3: washbasin and vanitory units. This kept the scale of work manageable, I could problem-solve as I went, and still have 2/3rds of bathroom working.
I came to the conclusion that it was iopossible to nail down an exact running order in adavnce - there seemed to be areas where A depended on B but B depended on A... and in some areas you don't know what has to be done until you start.
In the end I took a different approach, starting from one side of the door and working round the room wall by wall. Wall 1: bath and shower, Wall 2: WC, Wall 3: washbasin and vanitory units. This kept the scale of work manageable, I could problem-solve as I went, and still have 2/3rds of bathroom working.
There are but two important questions
1 - Do you have another bathroom
2 - How long can you live without a bath/toilet?
If you have the luxury, rip it all out. Prep the walls and floor, offer everything up and make adjustments in the pipe work, put in suite, do loor, tile walls, FILL THE BATH WITH WATER BEFORE SEALING, fiishing touches, take well deserved rest.
I am no expert btw and have flooded the house many times.
1 - Do you have another bathroom
2 - How long can you live without a bath/toilet?
If you have the luxury, rip it all out. Prep the walls and floor, offer everything up and make adjustments in the pipe work, put in suite, do loor, tile walls, FILL THE BATH WITH WATER BEFORE SEALING, fiishing touches, take well deserved rest.
I am no expert btw and have flooded the house many times.
I did the same (and really quite enjoyed it).
Couple of questions?
Do you have tiling you are going to remove? If so don't be daunted by the plastering especially if its dry-lined.
The things you'll need are:
Tile cutter
Powered tile cutter
Don't forget - Safety glasses and ear plugs.
Tile drills (http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=11)
Spirit level
SDS drill - https://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/Power-Tools/S...
Tap spanner
If you're do a bit of plumbing then:
wire wool
flux
solder
solder/heat mat
pipe cutter round 15mm and 22mm
solder ring fittings as required.
Practice on spare pipe - and remember clean joints!
Recommend using flexible connections if this is you first time connecting to taps - these also come with valves which are part of the regs (and lake life a bit easier).
I'd also recommend using a water barrier around the shower areas, especially if you using mosaics or small tiles - https://www.screwfix.com/prods/79333/Sealants-Adhe...
My best tip is when finishing up and applying mastic - mask the joints/corners with masking tape. apply the sealant, then push down and smooth with your finger. Remove the tape, then with a wet finger gently smooth the edges. - Will give a perfect parallel finish. Also use sealant in the tiled corners near the shower.
Recommend the order of work as:
Rip-out and make good.
Paint
Floor (if tiling)
Sanitary ware
Walls
Am sure some others will be a long to give a few more tips.
Oh and make sure you test everything for leaks before fitting panels.....
Couple of questions?
Do you have tiling you are going to remove? If so don't be daunted by the plastering especially if its dry-lined.
The things you'll need are:
Tile cutter
Powered tile cutter
Don't forget - Safety glasses and ear plugs.
Tile drills (http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=11)
Spirit level
SDS drill - https://www.screwfix.com/prods/58494/Power-Tools/S...
Tap spanner
If you're do a bit of plumbing then:
wire wool
flux
solder
solder/heat mat
pipe cutter round 15mm and 22mm
solder ring fittings as required.
Practice on spare pipe - and remember clean joints!
Recommend using flexible connections if this is you first time connecting to taps - these also come with valves which are part of the regs (and lake life a bit easier).
I'd also recommend using a water barrier around the shower areas, especially if you using mosaics or small tiles - https://www.screwfix.com/prods/79333/Sealants-Adhe...
My best tip is when finishing up and applying mastic - mask the joints/corners with masking tape. apply the sealant, then push down and smooth with your finger. Remove the tape, then with a wet finger gently smooth the edges. - Will give a perfect parallel finish. Also use sealant in the tiled corners near the shower.
Recommend the order of work as:
Rip-out and make good.
Paint
Floor (if tiling)
Sanitary ware
Walls
Am sure some others will be a long to give a few more tips.
Oh and make sure you test everything for leaks before fitting panels.....
Edited by Brother D on Friday 20th August 09:28
MuffDaddy said:
There are but two important questions
1 - Do you have another bathroom
2 - How long can you live without a bath/toilet?
If you have the luxury, rip it all out. Prep the walls and floor, offer everything up and make adjustments in the pipe work, put in suite, do loor, tile walls, FILL THE BATH WITH WATER BEFORE SEALING, fiishing touches, take well deserved rest.
I am no expert btw and have flooded the house many times.
1. No.1 - Do you have another bathroom
2 - How long can you live without a bath/toilet?
If you have the luxury, rip it all out. Prep the walls and floor, offer everything up and make adjustments in the pipe work, put in suite, do loor, tile walls, FILL THE BATH WITH WATER BEFORE SEALING, fiishing touches, take well deserved rest.
I am no expert btw and have flooded the house many times.
2. Given my personal bladder control - about 25 minutes. Tops.
But I had forgotten about filling the bath before sealing - I've been caught out by that before. The only flooding problem I experienced was a bathroom fitter not fitting the bath trap properly and consequently causing about £2000 worth of damage.
If you want I have a fully documented wetroom build, I cant think it would be much different other than not having the wetzone and having a bath there instead and putting the panel in, if you want I will dig it all out and you can see how it progressed...
Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
Dupont666 said:
If you want I have a fully documented wetroom build, I cant think it would be much different other than not having the wetzone and having a bath there instead and putting the panel in, if you want I will dig it all out and you can see how it progressed...
Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
That'd be great - If you've got it...Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
james_tigerwoods said:
Dupont666 said:
If you want I have a fully documented wetroom build, I cant think it would be much different other than not having the wetzone and having a bath there instead and putting the panel in, if you want I will dig it all out and you can see how it progressed...
Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
That'd be great - If you've got it...Except for the stripping of it, it was all done by the experts...
more here:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=385132&i...
and
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=11480190&...
Original thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Simpo Two said:
james_tigerwoods said:
What you can't see is that the bath is, for reasons that I can't yet work out (without taking off the bath panel (which would be entertaining at best) is raised off the floor by about 8 inches.
Possibly the previous owner found it hard to climb in and out?I suspect it's to do with the bath outlet, but I can't tell without taking the panel off - something that I think would commit us to starting the work sooner than we plan to as it looks very much like removing the panel would require some delicate crowbar/hammer work.
Unless someone has a spare endoscope to hand
Firstly, use plastic pipe and push to fit joints- as easy as.
You say it's the only bathroom, so take out what you can- ie, not the loo!
Refit everything you can, having removed the wood panelling round the bath/sink.
If you are tiling the floor- have a pee, remove toilet, after you have set out the floor.
For setting out, shuffle around the tiles so you have a good cut to the perimeters- if too narrow and the wall runs out, you risk ending up with small cuts, or worse, a grout line- which will look bloody awful.
When you are happy, remove the loo, tile the floor- make sure you use flexible adhesive if it's a timber floor. When the floor has cured, refit the toilet.
Open a beer. Drink beer. Reflect on work so far!
Grout floor- don't be tempted to use flexible fix+ grout, go see a specialist, get a flexible grout.
Wall tiling- spend some time measuring it out. Work out the size of the tiles- a 2 meter long wall should be 10 20cm wide tiles.
But it's not!!
You need to allow for 2mm spacers as well. Start from the centre line, strike a vertical line. Work (dry) to the edge of the wall- if it leaves a decent sized cut, all is well. If not, remove a tile, by using the centre of a tile on the centre line, so each end is in effect, half a tile larger.
Also work out the height- ideally, about 1cm less than half tile from the bath, but be sure to check size of cut to the floor and the ceiling, and around any windows, top of door etc- the only reason for using half a tile off the bath is to eliminate wastage- you get 2 cuts from 1 tile.
When you are happy, nail battens in line with the horizontal start line. Work up the walks, 3 or 4 tikes at a time, or even 1 or 2 if they are large, or you are nervous!
Off you go.
Work around the whole room, keep an eye on the levels!
When everything is dry- ideally overnight, but realistically a few hours, remove the battens, and insert the cuts down to the bath, and down from the lower battens.
Make sure you ALWAYS spread adhesive on the wall or floor- not the backs of the tiles.
Apply with a notched trowel- and ALWAYS ensure the ridges in the adhesive always go in one direction- this ensures that when the tile is applied, the air can escape from underneath- no lips or uneveness as a result.
If you are going to use plasterboard, buy Wedi backerboard for the wet areas.
Unibond the walls prior to starting.
Go to a specialist tile shop- they should be able to hire you a decent cutter- look for a cutter called a Rubi, they are the best by far.
If it's a ceramic tile, score and snap. For L shaped sections, score the cut, then use a diamond wheel cutter to cut the short length, then snap the other in the Rubi cutter.
If it's a natural stone tile you will have to use the diamond wheel throughout, but still score the surface first- it will create a weakness that the diamond wheel will follow.
If it's stone, impregnate the tiles prior to fitting with HG impregnator first. Tile, grout, then seal with HG Golvpolish.
For spacers, use a bag of 3mm crosses on the floor.
On the walls, use 2mm pegs- not crosses- they are hollow, so if there is any discrepency on tile size (or, heaven forbid, your battens!) you can put a level on the top course and pull them down to a level. If one us slightly smaller, put a piece of the card from the tile box in- grout will hide a multitude of sins!!
Re the grouting- use a powder grout that you mix with water. Buy a good grout float, apply with the float flat against the wall/floor. Leave 5 minutes, pull the float back accross at 45 degrees to the surface - so just the lip is in contact- to remove excess. Leave a further 15 mins or so, then with warm water and a sponge, work with a little pressure -akin to polishing a car- to finish the joints flush and smooth. Wear gloves- unless your other half likes her tits being touched by reptilian skin- the lime dries your skin a treat!!! Leave an hour, put on a mask- or a hankie if that's all you have- and, with an old tea towel, polish the grouted surface. WEAR a mask. The dust is f'ing awful!!!
Fill the bath with water, apply sealant.
That's all I can think of right now.
If it's not urgent, I have a Rubi you can borrow (nr MK).
If you get stuck re the tiling, PM me a rough drawing with dims. and the tile size, I will work it out for you.
Don't be afraid to PM me for anything regarding the tiles- same goes for anyone reading this.
Make sure you have beer in the house for afterwards!!!
You say it's the only bathroom, so take out what you can- ie, not the loo!
Refit everything you can, having removed the wood panelling round the bath/sink.
If you are tiling the floor- have a pee, remove toilet, after you have set out the floor.
For setting out, shuffle around the tiles so you have a good cut to the perimeters- if too narrow and the wall runs out, you risk ending up with small cuts, or worse, a grout line- which will look bloody awful.
When you are happy, remove the loo, tile the floor- make sure you use flexible adhesive if it's a timber floor. When the floor has cured, refit the toilet.
Open a beer. Drink beer. Reflect on work so far!
Grout floor- don't be tempted to use flexible fix+ grout, go see a specialist, get a flexible grout.
Wall tiling- spend some time measuring it out. Work out the size of the tiles- a 2 meter long wall should be 10 20cm wide tiles.
But it's not!!
You need to allow for 2mm spacers as well. Start from the centre line, strike a vertical line. Work (dry) to the edge of the wall- if it leaves a decent sized cut, all is well. If not, remove a tile, by using the centre of a tile on the centre line, so each end is in effect, half a tile larger.
Also work out the height- ideally, about 1cm less than half tile from the bath, but be sure to check size of cut to the floor and the ceiling, and around any windows, top of door etc- the only reason for using half a tile off the bath is to eliminate wastage- you get 2 cuts from 1 tile.
When you are happy, nail battens in line with the horizontal start line. Work up the walks, 3 or 4 tikes at a time, or even 1 or 2 if they are large, or you are nervous!
Off you go.
Work around the whole room, keep an eye on the levels!
When everything is dry- ideally overnight, but realistically a few hours, remove the battens, and insert the cuts down to the bath, and down from the lower battens.
Make sure you ALWAYS spread adhesive on the wall or floor- not the backs of the tiles.
Apply with a notched trowel- and ALWAYS ensure the ridges in the adhesive always go in one direction- this ensures that when the tile is applied, the air can escape from underneath- no lips or uneveness as a result.
If you are going to use plasterboard, buy Wedi backerboard for the wet areas.
Unibond the walls prior to starting.
Go to a specialist tile shop- they should be able to hire you a decent cutter- look for a cutter called a Rubi, they are the best by far.
If it's a ceramic tile, score and snap. For L shaped sections, score the cut, then use a diamond wheel cutter to cut the short length, then snap the other in the Rubi cutter.
If it's a natural stone tile you will have to use the diamond wheel throughout, but still score the surface first- it will create a weakness that the diamond wheel will follow.
If it's stone, impregnate the tiles prior to fitting with HG impregnator first. Tile, grout, then seal with HG Golvpolish.
For spacers, use a bag of 3mm crosses on the floor.
On the walls, use 2mm pegs- not crosses- they are hollow, so if there is any discrepency on tile size (or, heaven forbid, your battens!) you can put a level on the top course and pull them down to a level. If one us slightly smaller, put a piece of the card from the tile box in- grout will hide a multitude of sins!!
Re the grouting- use a powder grout that you mix with water. Buy a good grout float, apply with the float flat against the wall/floor. Leave 5 minutes, pull the float back accross at 45 degrees to the surface - so just the lip is in contact- to remove excess. Leave a further 15 mins or so, then with warm water and a sponge, work with a little pressure -akin to polishing a car- to finish the joints flush and smooth. Wear gloves- unless your other half likes her tits being touched by reptilian skin- the lime dries your skin a treat!!! Leave an hour, put on a mask- or a hankie if that's all you have- and, with an old tea towel, polish the grouted surface. WEAR a mask. The dust is f'ing awful!!!
Fill the bath with water, apply sealant.
That's all I can think of right now.
If it's not urgent, I have a Rubi you can borrow (nr MK).
If you get stuck re the tiling, PM me a rough drawing with dims. and the tile size, I will work it out for you.
Don't be afraid to PM me for anything regarding the tiles- same goes for anyone reading this.
Make sure you have beer in the house for afterwards!!!
Emsman speaks sense but I would watch using plastic pipes as depending on your wiring the water system could be earth linked and you have now altered it, copper pipe and compression joints is as easy, if not easier as you can bend the pipe slightly to go out past any lumps or bumps on the wall.
Also....
If you have a semi circular cut or cuts around the base of the loo - if the soil pipe is directly below- lay the full tiles down, use a piece of paper to make a template of the awkward cut. Remove the wheel from the rubi cutter, score the cut by hand, then make a series of cuts with the diamond wheel to the scored line- ideally 10-15mm. With a pair of nippers or pliers, tap the end furthest from the score line and the 'fingers' should all neatly fall our and follow the scored line. Beaten up as required, but bear in mind that it generally doesn't need to be too precise as the pan will cover a larger area
If you have a semi circular cut or cuts around the base of the loo - if the soil pipe is directly below- lay the full tiles down, use a piece of paper to make a template of the awkward cut. Remove the wheel from the rubi cutter, score the cut by hand, then make a series of cuts with the diamond wheel to the scored line- ideally 10-15mm. With a pair of nippers or pliers, tap the end furthest from the score line and the 'fingers' should all neatly fall our and follow the scored line. Beaten up as required, but bear in mind that it generally doesn't need to be too precise as the pan will cover a larger area
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff