Recommend me a System Heating solution
Discussion
We're about to put an offer in for a house nearby that has a 15-20 year old gas fired boiler and cylinder combo. Looking at it, it can't be very efficient and if successful with the purchase we'd look to swap it out straight away.
House size is 4-bed (doubles with single glazing), 1 family bathroom, 2 en-suites, 2 living rooms, dining room, study, breakfasting kitchen and random other small room (from living rooms onwards double glazed). The en-suites are electric power showers and would probably stay like that.
The existing boiler is an Ideal but couldn't see a model (the case was a bit rusty in places), and the tank was about 5ft tall and all lagged in that hessian wrap stuff. Current owner didn't know the rating of the boiler, just that it has worked for him since he moved in 15 years ago.
The current house we're in is a similar size but we went for a Vaillant Combi (ecoTec exclusive 838, 38kW DHW - 30kW CH). This boiler does OK, but not great due to the querks of the pipework layout we're working with and I'm now thinking that we should have stuck with a cylinder but hindsight is 20-20. This size of Vaillant is their limit and does have a design flaw which I'd like to avoid again if possible.
I'd like to purely swap out the boiler and cylinder with something more efficient and have done a cursory comparison for Vaillant based on prior experience. On the other hand, I don't want to miss considering other makes.
So, who else would people recommend?
Dr Rick
House size is 4-bed (doubles with single glazing), 1 family bathroom, 2 en-suites, 2 living rooms, dining room, study, breakfasting kitchen and random other small room (from living rooms onwards double glazed). The en-suites are electric power showers and would probably stay like that.
The existing boiler is an Ideal but couldn't see a model (the case was a bit rusty in places), and the tank was about 5ft tall and all lagged in that hessian wrap stuff. Current owner didn't know the rating of the boiler, just that it has worked for him since he moved in 15 years ago.
The current house we're in is a similar size but we went for a Vaillant Combi (ecoTec exclusive 838, 38kW DHW - 30kW CH). This boiler does OK, but not great due to the querks of the pipework layout we're working with and I'm now thinking that we should have stuck with a cylinder but hindsight is 20-20. This size of Vaillant is their limit and does have a design flaw which I'd like to avoid again if possible.
I'd like to purely swap out the boiler and cylinder with something more efficient and have done a cursory comparison for Vaillant based on prior experience. On the other hand, I don't want to miss considering other makes.
So, who else would people recommend?
Dr Rick
Seeing as you have 3 bathrooms. I'd stick with the conventional boiler and cylinder route.
Go for an unvented cylinder, mains pressure hot water and no cisterns in the attic. They are pre-insulated in on tidy unit.
You may aswell go for a system boiler, that means the heating system will be pressurised, again another cistern from the attic removed.
As always, I recommend Worcester Bosch. For what sounds like a larger than average property. I'd go for a CDI model, they range from 27KW to 42 KW. They come with a variety of energy saving controls and you can get the warranty extended to 5 years if you use and Accredited Installer.
Don't rule out Vaillant, they are good boilers, I've got very limited expereince with them, except for ripping them out!
Pop into your nearest Plumb Centre branch and find out some prices, they do their own brand of unvented cylinders, which are a lot cheaper than the competitors.
You may be able to figure out the heat requirement of your house yourself, there are several website with calculators for this.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/calculator.html
Good luck!
Go for an unvented cylinder, mains pressure hot water and no cisterns in the attic. They are pre-insulated in on tidy unit.
You may aswell go for a system boiler, that means the heating system will be pressurised, again another cistern from the attic removed.
As always, I recommend Worcester Bosch. For what sounds like a larger than average property. I'd go for a CDI model, they range from 27KW to 42 KW. They come with a variety of energy saving controls and you can get the warranty extended to 5 years if you use and Accredited Installer.
Don't rule out Vaillant, they are good boilers, I've got very limited expereince with them, except for ripping them out!
Pop into your nearest Plumb Centre branch and find out some prices, they do their own brand of unvented cylinders, which are a lot cheaper than the competitors.
You may be able to figure out the heat requirement of your house yourself, there are several website with calculators for this.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/calculator.html
Good luck!
Ricky_M said:
Seeing as you have 3 bathrooms. I'd stick with the conventional boiler and cylinder route.
Go for an unvented cylinder, mains pressure hot water and no cisterns in the attic. They are pre-insulated in on tidy unit.
You may aswell go for a system boiler, that means the heating system will be pressurised, again another cistern from the attic removed.
As always, I recommend Worcester Bosch. For what sounds like a larger than average property. I'd go for a CDI model, they range from 27KW to 42 KW. They come with a variety of energy saving controls and you can get the warranty extended to 5 years if you use and Accredited Installer.
Don't rule out Vaillant, they are good boilers, I've got very limited expereince with them, except for ripping them out!
Pop into your nearest Plumb Centre branch and find out some prices, they do their own brand of unvented cylinders, which are a lot cheaper than the competitors.
You may be able to figure out the heat requirement of your house yourself, there are several website with calculators for this.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/calculator.html
Good luck!
Thanks for that, I've had a look at the Worcester Bosch website. The largest system that they do is the 30CDi which would be a 30kW CH. We've currently got a 37kW and it is OK. Is there a reason that WB have a cistern in the attic of their image of a System boiler setup, I always assumed you didn't need one?Go for an unvented cylinder, mains pressure hot water and no cisterns in the attic. They are pre-insulated in on tidy unit.
You may aswell go for a system boiler, that means the heating system will be pressurised, again another cistern from the attic removed.
As always, I recommend Worcester Bosch. For what sounds like a larger than average property. I'd go for a CDI model, they range from 27KW to 42 KW. They come with a variety of energy saving controls and you can get the warranty extended to 5 years if you use and Accredited Installer.
Don't rule out Vaillant, they are good boilers, I've got very limited expereince with them, except for ripping them out!
Pop into your nearest Plumb Centre branch and find out some prices, they do their own brand of unvented cylinders, which are a lot cheaper than the competitors.
You may be able to figure out the heat requirement of your house yourself, there are several website with calculators for this.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/calculator.html
Good luck!
Looking at that calculator site, they recommend me a 35kW sized boiler, so I reckon the Vaillant would be the one.
Plumb Centre seem to be a little high on the prices, I know you run the risks with online stuff, but www.discountedheating.co.uk come in cheaper. On the other hand I'll see what our tame plumber reckons if we get to that stage (but he is biased to Vaillant and is a recommended installer so I know what he'd 'recommend').
Why were you only ripping out Vaillant? Are you a recommended installer for WB?
Dr Rick
If your aim is to save money, you'd probably get a better return from sorting out insulation (incl. putting in double glazing), and getting rid of those electric showers - they eat electricity and break down sooner rather than later.
Our (recently new) boiler is a GlowWorm and seems to do the job very well. There's a lot to be said for mains pressure hot water, but you won't really get the benefit unless it feeds your showers.
Our (recently new) boiler is a GlowWorm and seems to do the job very well. There's a lot to be said for mains pressure hot water, but you won't really get the benefit unless it feeds your showers.
True, and those aspects you mention are on the cards, but given I didn't win the lottery last week I'm going for a compartmentalised approach. I know the boiler change will make a difference, the windows will get done once we've saved up (assuming we get the house) and an interim job would be to throw some more insulation into the roof. Unfortunately the one bit of insulation I couldn't do anything with is the walls; solid stone with conservation status and original internal features. Still, can't do everything to these old places.
My mum has a GlowWorm boiler; nothing but trouble for her. Maybe not for me
Dr Rick
Our (recently new) boiler is a GlowWorm and seems to do the job very well. There's a lot to be said for mains pressure hot water, but you won't really get the benefit unless it feeds your showers.
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My mum has a GlowWorm boiler; nothing but trouble for her. Maybe not for me
Dr Rick
Our (recently new) boiler is a GlowWorm and seems to do the job very well. There's a lot to be said for mains pressure hot water, but you won't really get the benefit unless it feeds your showers.
[/quote]
Two important points:
Don't fit an unvented cylinder unless you have enough flow to run it. (They aren't 'mains pressure', incidentally..tut, tut, Ricky)
Beware of the gas requirements on a 30kW + boiler. It may well require a new supply from the meter. I would look carefully at insulating the place properly then working out the heat losses. DON'T guess at your heat requirements.
Don't fit an unvented cylinder unless you have enough flow to run it. (They aren't 'mains pressure', incidentally..tut, tut, Ricky)
Beware of the gas requirements on a 30kW + boiler. It may well require a new supply from the meter. I would look carefully at insulating the place properly then working out the heat losses. DON'T guess at your heat requirements.
My bad, common misconception, upto 3 bar pressure I should have said! Should have mentioned flow rate, they are next to useless with poor flow!
I only give advice, please don't go attempting work under my guidance! There are many factors that affect an installation that I can't see from my computer. Just giving you a heads up before an installer tries to rip you off!
Dr Rick, when I say only ripping out Vaillant, I don't mean Vaillant is the only brand I remove. Infact I hardly ever rip out Vaillants and the ones I do are about 20-25 years old and still work! I meant the only time I deal with them is when I remove them. They are good boilers, they are a bugger to remove too!
Yes, I work for an Accredited WB company, that why I recommend them, simply as I have no experience in fitting other boilers!
I only give advice, please don't go attempting work under my guidance! There are many factors that affect an installation that I can't see from my computer. Just giving you a heads up before an installer tries to rip you off!
Dr Rick, when I say only ripping out Vaillant, I don't mean Vaillant is the only brand I remove. Infact I hardly ever rip out Vaillants and the ones I do are about 20-25 years old and still work! I meant the only time I deal with them is when I remove them. They are good boilers, they are a bugger to remove too!
Yes, I work for an Accredited WB company, that why I recommend them, simply as I have no experience in fitting other boilers!
Fair enough. I don't plan on doing anything myself, not accredited for a start, but plumbing can make a real mess that continues to damage even though the source is isolated. Unlike electricity. I'll leave it to the pros.
But given my boiler experience for this size of property is limited to Vaillant, and that options are limited and obscure I figured I'd go for 'impartial' advice from the masses.
All pointers gratefully received. And I'll get round to the insullation later.
Dr Rick
But given my boiler experience for this size of property is limited to Vaillant, and that options are limited and obscure I figured I'd go for 'impartial' advice from the masses.
All pointers gratefully received. And I'll get round to the insullation later.
Dr Rick
Putting in insulation (and windows) is a messy and disruptive job and worth doing before you move in. Don't underestimate how much of a difference it makes, nor how much it saves on heating. Just rolling out a few bales of rockwool in the loft is NOT putting in insulation.
We're about to move into our selfbuild. To give you some idea of what's possible, though it's icy outside the building is currently being kept at a comfortable temperature by a single 2kW electric heater. Admittedly you would have to work hard to approach the levels of insulation we have (especially given a house with conservation involved - I'd run a mile), but if your house is draughty and cold, putting in a larger boiler doesn't stop it being draughty and cold, it just gives you some hot spots to warm your legs against.
We're about to move into our selfbuild. To give you some idea of what's possible, though it's icy outside the building is currently being kept at a comfortable temperature by a single 2kW electric heater. Admittedly you would have to work hard to approach the levels of insulation we have (especially given a house with conservation involved - I'd run a mile), but if your house is draughty and cold, putting in a larger boiler doesn't stop it being draughty and cold, it just gives you some hot spots to warm your legs against.
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