Thats Alarming! (What house alarm)
Discussion
Ok the 1st burglary in the street has happened. Couple of guys seen loading the contents of a house out of the front windows into a car. Great.
So as they have now worked out how to get in, layouts, and had a good haul of large plasma tv, playstation, new PC etc. And they picked the only house where a guy started working nights so we can assume they have had a good look at all the houses. It seems a good time to do the job of fitting an alarm to wake me up should they come in.
So what's good that I can fit myself? Not a total numpty drilling holes etc so happy to have a bash at it.
Or should I get a professional in as they do a better job setting kit up etc?
So as they have now worked out how to get in, layouts, and had a good haul of large plasma tv, playstation, new PC etc. And they picked the only house where a guy started working nights so we can assume they have had a good look at all the houses. It seems a good time to do the job of fitting an alarm to wake me up should they come in.
So what's good that I can fit myself? Not a total numpty drilling holes etc so happy to have a bash at it.
Or should I get a professional in as they do a better job setting kit up etc?
I suppose it all depends really on what your budget is and if you need it to be insurance approved. If you want it insurance approved then you will need to go the professional route.
If you look on our website ( in my profile ) you will be able to find tips on how to find a suitable installer for you. The document isn't finished yet but should give you a helpful start. I'm going to try and update it over the christmas period if I can stay off the drink
. You will need to become a member first though as it's in the members section. Don't worry we won't contact you. 
If you go to an electrical factors rather than B&Q etc, they should be able to help you if you go the DIY route. You can buy kits with everything included that you can install yourself, but they are generally the cheaper end of market and very limited in what they can do. If you have the right tools etc and a bit of an idea, then you should be ok.
As to wireless stuff, like everything else, you get what you pay for. Nothing wrong with it, if it's good quality, installed correctly and the batteries are aren't left to go flat before being changed.
All I will say is, I've seen loads of DIY jobs that are really shocking to say the least. All said and done 'Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice'.
I'd also suggest looking at security lighting and physical security such as locks on gates etc. If it looks like you have taken precautions then the chancer will hopefully go elsewhere.
If you look on our website ( in my profile ) you will be able to find tips on how to find a suitable installer for you. The document isn't finished yet but should give you a helpful start. I'm going to try and update it over the christmas period if I can stay off the drink
. You will need to become a member first though as it's in the members section. Don't worry we won't contact you. If you go to an electrical factors rather than B&Q etc, they should be able to help you if you go the DIY route. You can buy kits with everything included that you can install yourself, but they are generally the cheaper end of market and very limited in what they can do. If you have the right tools etc and a bit of an idea, then you should be ok.
As to wireless stuff, like everything else, you get what you pay for. Nothing wrong with it, if it's good quality, installed correctly and the batteries are aren't left to go flat before being changed.
All I will say is, I've seen loads of DIY jobs that are really shocking to say the least. All said and done 'Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice'.
I'd also suggest looking at security lighting and physical security such as locks on gates etc. If it looks like you have taken precautions then the chancer will hopefully go elsewhere.
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Wednesday 9th December 18:42
Dunno where you are but TLC electrical wholesalers in the south have a reasonable range of stuff aimed at electrical contractors and therefore relatively straightforward to fit. This is NOT a dig at sparkys, it's just that they are experts at their own trade and alarm fitting is different enough to give some a bit of bother in my experiene of fielding customer service calls over the years of being a manufacturer. Otherwise there's ADI-Gardiner but they won't be quite so user-friendly because they're totally for the security trade. A credible bellbox is very important in my view - deterrence being the main effect of any house alarm.
Driller said:
Avoid wireless like the plague. You'll save money too. Scantronic do good panels suitable for diy install ie they will give you support even if you're not a pro.
Sorry but IMO wireless does have it's place, i installed a Yale system at our old place and it worked just fine. I couldn't be arsed with trying to route wires for all the sensors, new house has a wired alarm which would always be my preference but only because it was put in as part of the build so no wires ANY where in sight 
I fitted Yale system for all the neighbours too(never had so much beer ) and theirs all worked fine too.Westy Pre-Lit said:
motco said:
This is NOT a dig at sparkys, it's just that they are experts at their own trade and alarm fitting is different enough to give some a bit of bother in my experiene of fielding customer service calls over the years of being a manufacturer.
................
Dave_ST220 said:
Driller said:
Avoid wireless like the plague. You'll save money too. Scantronic do good panels suitable for diy install ie they will give you support even if you're not a pro.
Sorry but IMO wireless does have it's place, i installed a Yale system at our old place and it worked just fine. I couldn't be arsed with trying to route wires for all the sensors, new house has a wired alarm which would always be my preference but only because it was put in as part of the build so no wires ANY where in sight I fitted Yale system for all the neighbours too(never had so much beer ) and theirs all worked fine too.For security you want to get as close to 10% as possible. I'm not saying they don't work but I wouldn't want to put my trust in one.
Driller said:
Dave_ST220 said:
Driller said:
Avoid wireless like the plague. You'll save money too. Scantronic do good panels suitable for diy install ie they will give you support even if you're not a pro.
Sorry but IMO wireless does have it's place, i installed a Yale system at our old place and it worked just fine. I couldn't be arsed with trying to route wires for all the sensors, new house has a wired alarm which would always be my preference but only because it was put in as part of the build so no wires ANY where in sight I fitted Yale system for all the neighbours too(never had so much beer ) and theirs all worked fine too.For security you want to get as close to 10% as possible. I'm not saying they don't work but I wouldn't want to put my trust in one.
Mind you none of the neighbours without alamrs were broken in to either!I fitted it because I was being named as a witness to break in at our local community hall, just as I sodded off to Australia for 8 weeks, and the Police said "Whilst we don't give your address it doesn't take a genius to look you up in the phone book so you might want to take some additional security precautions."
It depends what you want an alarm for, if you have masses of valuables then it becomes worth having a professional in to install an alarm, if on the other hand you want an alarm as a deterrent and to make it more likely that the opportunist goes next door than a wireless DIY will do the job.
motco said:
Westy Pre-Lit said:
motco said:
This is NOT a dig at sparkys, it's just that they are experts at their own trade and alarm fitting is different enough to give some a bit of bother in my experiene of fielding customer service calls over the years of being a manufacturer.
................A spark who cannot fit a domestic alarm better than any number of the many 'specialists' must be pretty s
t. Whilst I appreciate many people with no experience of electrics/electronics will struggle to install a normal domestic alarm system; to a half decent spark it is feckin' child's play. With regards to the voltage drop scenario, they must have been pretty crap sparks. Volt drop is a critical consideration in any cable selection (although there are some people who work in nothing bigger than a 3 bed semi where it can be taken for granted that the 2.5 mm2 cable they are using to install a ring main is going to be adequate). It is a schoolboy error to have dropped a bo11ock like that.I have fitted many alarms in my time and many of them were replacements for systems that were installed by alarm 'specialists'. I have seen plenty of:
- Connections consisting of twisted wire and a bit of tape (or better still a piece of the white sheath from a bit of 4/6 core
- "fk the tamper loop! Let's bung a staple in instead so we can use 4 core to connect this PIR!"
- ELV cables run in mini trunking with mains
- Cable run over gripper rods
- A 12V mechanical siren wired to the bell circuit
- Fused spurs wired in 1.0mm2 straight into the top of the breaker
- No fused spur whatsoever
- No CPC sleeving
- No CPC
"No offence!"
No offence taken by me, I'm only a manufacturer of the equipment, or I was 'til 2006/7. I agree that the standard of alarm fitters is ranging from lamentable to excellent, with far too many of the former. 'Ohm' is where they go at night! Of course any decent sparky can do a decent alarm system and it will possibly be neater than many alarm fitters would do. But a really complex commercial job could well be beyond them through lack of familiarity. I designed an external warning device (bell unit) for Royal Mail complying to their own very high security standard (more secure than the high security BS spec 7080 IIRC) in the late 90s secure in the knowledge that the Royal Mail installers were as well educated as the engineers (proper graduate ones) at the lab in Swindon. What I didn't know was that the mechanical and electrical engineering division of the Post Office were farming out the installations to subbies. Oh woe......
No offence taken
The reasons you point out are quite true, in fact I've seen the same myself. More the reason to get a security installer that is SSAIB or NSI registered and insurance approved.
As to fitting alarms as childs play....here lies the problem. As a registered security installer we have to fit to a certain standard, which with all due respect, most sparks don't do.
As an example, I will use the system we fitted today which was pre-wired by a sparky. The alarm is to eventually be a policed system, unfortunatly the sparky ( no fault of his own ) not knowing the standards had 2 detectors looking into one area which you can't have. This then caused me a load of hassle moving the cabling etc. Another problem was that the cable for the only keypad was then placed in a room, which held a safe. Even if the system wasn't policed, just by the way it had been wired, meant that the whole of the building would have to be on an entry route, leaving it vunerable on entry.
Another problem we find on a regular occurance is no contacts being placed on the entry door, which is again a standard which we have to abide by. I also suspect a sparky won't be able to tell you your liabities reguarding informing the local council or bodies that are set up to hold your keyholder information. Be aware that if you have an alarm installed and the council get called out due to a noise nuisance from you property and you haven't informed the correct people of your keyholders, then a nice hefty fine could be winging it's way to you in the post.
Your right though, most of the time simple alarms can be easy to fit. But there is a reason why it is an advantage of having a system fitted by a professional.
The reasons you point out are quite true, in fact I've seen the same myself. More the reason to get a security installer that is SSAIB or NSI registered and insurance approved.
As to fitting alarms as childs play....here lies the problem. As a registered security installer we have to fit to a certain standard, which with all due respect, most sparks don't do.
As an example, I will use the system we fitted today which was pre-wired by a sparky. The alarm is to eventually be a policed system, unfortunatly the sparky ( no fault of his own ) not knowing the standards had 2 detectors looking into one area which you can't have. This then caused me a load of hassle moving the cabling etc. Another problem was that the cable for the only keypad was then placed in a room, which held a safe. Even if the system wasn't policed, just by the way it had been wired, meant that the whole of the building would have to be on an entry route, leaving it vunerable on entry.
Another problem we find on a regular occurance is no contacts being placed on the entry door, which is again a standard which we have to abide by. I also suspect a sparky won't be able to tell you your liabities reguarding informing the local council or bodies that are set up to hold your keyholder information. Be aware that if you have an alarm installed and the council get called out due to a noise nuisance from you property and you haven't informed the correct people of your keyholders, then a nice hefty fine could be winging it's way to you in the post.
Your right though, most of the time simple alarms can be easy to fit. But there is a reason why it is an advantage of having a system fitted by a professional.
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Thursday 10th December 21:55
Hi guys. Thanks for getting stuck into the details. There (to a layman) appears to be quite a bit of info about who/what to pick. Plenty for me to consider!
Have to get a quote me thinks from a Pro, vs something for "show".
(Currently the house is protected by looking like it's lived in by really messy people with really cheap fittings....you know....there might be a reason for that)
Have to get a quote me thinks from a Pro, vs something for "show".
(Currently the house is protected by looking like it's lived in by really messy people with really cheap fittings....you know....there might be a reason for that)
Westy Pre-Lit said:
No offence taken
The reasons you point out are quite true, in fact I've seen the same myself. More the reason to get a security installer that is SSAIB or NSI registered and insurance approved.
As to fitting alarms as childs play....here lies the problem. As a registered security installer we have to fit to a certain standard, which with all due respect, most sparks don't do.
As an example, I will use the system we fitted today which was pre-wired by a sparky. The alarm is to eventually be a policed system, unfortunatly the sparky ( no fault of his own ) not knowing the standards had 2 detectors looking into one area which you can't have. This then caused me a load of hassle moving the cabling etc. Another problem was that the cable for the only keypad was then placed in a room, which held a safe. Even if the system wasn't policed, just by the way it had been wired, meant that the whole of the building would have to be on an entry route, leaving it vunerable on entry.
Another problem we find on a regular occurance is no contacts being placed on the entry door, which is again a standard which we have to abide by. I also suspect a sparky won't be able to tell you your liabities reguarding informing the local council or bodies that are set up to hold your keyholder information. Be aware that if you have an alarm installed and the council get called out due to a noise nuisance from you property and you haven't informed the correct people of your keyholders, then a nice hefty fine could be winging it's way to you in the post.
Your right though, most of the time simple alarms can be easy to fit. But there is a reason why it is an advantage of having a system fitted by a professional.
why not just fit 2 dual techs? then overlapping coverage is not an issue (unless they are closer than 2 meters) got to be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper than re-wiring??The reasons you point out are quite true, in fact I've seen the same myself. More the reason to get a security installer that is SSAIB or NSI registered and insurance approved.
As to fitting alarms as childs play....here lies the problem. As a registered security installer we have to fit to a certain standard, which with all due respect, most sparks don't do.
As an example, I will use the system we fitted today which was pre-wired by a sparky. The alarm is to eventually be a policed system, unfortunatly the sparky ( no fault of his own ) not knowing the standards had 2 detectors looking into one area which you can't have. This then caused me a load of hassle moving the cabling etc. Another problem was that the cable for the only keypad was then placed in a room, which held a safe. Even if the system wasn't policed, just by the way it had been wired, meant that the whole of the building would have to be on an entry route, leaving it vunerable on entry.
Another problem we find on a regular occurance is no contacts being placed on the entry door, which is again a standard which we have to abide by. I also suspect a sparky won't be able to tell you your liabities reguarding informing the local council or bodies that are set up to hold your keyholder information. Be aware that if you have an alarm installed and the council get called out due to a noise nuisance from you property and you haven't informed the correct people of your keyholders, then a nice hefty fine could be winging it's way to you in the post.
Your right though, most of the time simple alarms can be easy to fit. But there is a reason why it is an advantage of having a system fitted by a professional.
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Thursday 10th December 21:55
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