Advice needed from a builder, re re-pointing.
Discussion
The front of my house has some areas of pointing missing from the brickwork, i wanted to know what process i would have to go through to re-point it??
Is it a case of knocking out some of the existing pointing on the good areas, cleaning out the loose mortar, painting with a pva glue for adhesion then re-point the whole of the front of the house so as to have it all the same??
Is there any other way of doing it?? to make it any easier??
TIA
Glyn.
Is it a case of knocking out some of the existing pointing on the good areas, cleaning out the loose mortar, painting with a pva glue for adhesion then re-point the whole of the front of the house so as to have it all the same??
Is there any other way of doing it?? to make it any easier??
TIA
Glyn.
I'm no expert but I think you can get a refillable cartridge gun, much like the ones you use to for silicone sealant, to aplpy the mortar. I'd imagine this would be easier that trying to trowel it in for a novice.
I'd look at YouTube too, there are loads of instructional videos for all sorts of things on there.
I'd look at YouTube too, there are loads of instructional videos for all sorts of things on there.
GreenDog said:
I'm no expert but I think you can get a refillable cartridge gun, much like the ones you use to for silicone sealant, to aplpy the mortar.
Have just done a search and found one such thing, Fill it up with mortar and adjust the nozzle size and hey presto..........had a video on their site and it's very quick and easy to use. Can be used on all types of pointing, walls and patios etc.£19.95 just clean it out after use and it's then ready to be used next time.
Glyn.
http://www.pointmaster.co.uk/index.html?gclid=CJqa... Wouldn't use one myself ! But this is what was mentioned 
This may help http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Pointingbrick...
This may help http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Pointingbrick...
Edited by D14 AYS on Monday 28th September 20:12
You can get a mortar rake for the engle grinder. Should make raking out out the joints a lot easier. You do have to go a bit careful, though, as you can scuff the bricks a bit.
As has been said, clean all the loose crap and dust and then hose it down.
I'd use a finger trowel for the pointing.
Just found this, which is quite handy - http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/RE-POINTING.htm
I take it the house isn't listed or anything like that?
It'll probably have to be done over a few days, so getting the mix right will be important. Are you gunna change the colour or try and match the original?
As has been said, clean all the loose crap and dust and then hose it down.
I'd use a finger trowel for the pointing.
Just found this, which is quite handy - http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/RE-POINTING.htm
I take it the house isn't listed or anything like that?
It'll probably have to be done over a few days, so getting the mix right will be important. Are you gunna change the colour or try and match the original?
D14 AYS said:
http://www.pointmaster.co.uk/index.html?gclid=CJqa... Wouldn't use one myself ! But this is what was mentioned
This may help http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Pointingbrick...
Hi Dean.This may help http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Pointingbrick...
Edited by D14 AYS on Monday 28th September 20:12
That top link is what i was looking to get to make it quicker.
That other link is interesting too i found a pointing rake tool which will be a bit tidier than an angle grinder.
Glyn.
Dear The Hood,
Glyn.Which would you prefer to be damaged as the walls flex, the mortar or the bricks?
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
The Hood said:
Arthur Jackson said:
Only bit of advice I can give is that a pointing expert once told me that you must NEVER point with anything stronger than the bricks themselves. Pointing soft-reds with sand and cement, for example, is very wrong.
Did he say why??Glyn.
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
jet_noise said:
Dear The Hood,
Glyn.Which would you prefer to be damaged as the walls flex, the mortar or the bricks?
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
Might sound like a dumb couple of questions then.The Hood said:
Arthur Jackson said:
Only bit of advice I can give is that a pointing expert once told me that you must NEVER point with anything stronger than the bricks themselves. Pointing soft-reds with sand and cement, for example, is very wrong.
Did he say why??Glyn.
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
My bricks are RED how do i know whether they are soft red??
How can i tell if it is lime mortar or cement mortar??
Glyn.
The Hood said:
jet_noise said:
Dear The Hood,
Glyn.Which would you prefer to be damaged as the walls flex, the mortar or the bricks?
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
Might sound like a dumb couple of questions then.The Hood said:
Arthur Jackson said:
Only bit of advice I can give is that a pointing expert once told me that you must NEVER point with anything stronger than the bricks themselves. Pointing soft-reds with sand and cement, for example, is very wrong.
Did he say why??Glyn.
If the mortar is softer then it sacrificially degrades and you have to repoint. If the bricks are softer then the bricks crack and you have to replace the bricks.
There's a similar rule for rendering. My house is old and lime mortared so I can't use cement render,
regards,
Jet
My bricks are RED how do i know whether they are soft red??
How can i tell if it is lime mortar or cement mortar??
Glyn.
Seriously, most "soft" bricks are fairly uneven on the surface (but not all), and have many irregularities. If you lift a manhole cover, and see bricks, they're Class B engineers and are "hard". Do your bricks seem to be made from a similar clay?
Lime mortar is a mix of hydraulic lime and coarse sand, cement mortar is cement and building sand, which is generally finer. Hydrated lime is sometimes used to make the mortar more "buttery" to lay.
Lime mortar allows the building to move slightly without cracking, cement mortar just cracks, so if you can see any cracks in the mortar, chances are it's cement mortar. Also, the newer the house, the more likely it will have cement mortar, certainly anything built after the fifties will 99.99% be cement mortar.
mrmaggit said:
Lime mortar allows the building to move slightly without cracking, cement mortar just cracks, so if you can see any cracks in the mortar, chances are it's cement mortar. Also, the newer the house, the more likely it will have cement mortar, certainly anything built after the fifties will 99.99% be cement mortar.
Right i have just been out to check and the mortar is cracked, BUT, it looks like it has been re-pointed in the past as on some points where the pointing is missing it's just the newer mortar that has come away.My bricks are not a reddy red if you know what i mean, they are a browny red.
The house was built somewhere around the 1930's i think.
Glyn.
If your house is constructed of traditional soft red bricks (rubbers) you will need to use a slaked or Hydraulic lime mortar mix known as 'Stopping' This is a flexible mortar and will not cause the bricks to crack if structure moves it will flex.the style of pointing would almost certainly be 'tuck' or 'weatherstruck' pointing
'Stopping' A mortar of hydraulic/slaked lime + washed sand usually coloured to match the brick colour will cover any mishaps whilst raking out, and the joints should be filled in flush with the face of the bricks with the 'stopping' mix.
When the 'stopping' is firm enough to score central lines in the joints you can then add the 'ribbon' pictures would probably help here!!!
The 'Ribbon' the decorative finished joint which is a mixture of fine silver sand and lime mixed and is stored in airtight container to maintain it as putty.
The Putty is made by dissolving lime in water, run the lime through a sieve, continue adding lime until it becomes a thick creamy consistency, the joint putty which is either white, black, or red is laid on after the work is stopped.
The white putty is a mixture of chalk lime, which must be well screened/sieved, add silver sand or marble dust, a small quantity of oil or size being added to the lime whilst dry. Black and red putty are both made with grey lime and fine well-washed sand, the former being coloured with lamp or vegetable black, and the latter with Spanish brown. Vegetable black mixes the most readily with the other ingredients or modern equivilent colortone.
What you need is a frenchman and a pointing rule, start by cleaning all the loose pointing out with a joint rake, brush all the dust out and washing down with clean water, allow the brickwork to dry slightly.
Start by filling the perp Joins first and then the beds and finish off with the frenchman and rule. When the joints have dried, clean the wall face with a medium-soft banister brush.
Ah found picture sorry if your now bored!!!!!!!!
'Stopping' A mortar of hydraulic/slaked lime + washed sand usually coloured to match the brick colour will cover any mishaps whilst raking out, and the joints should be filled in flush with the face of the bricks with the 'stopping' mix.
When the 'stopping' is firm enough to score central lines in the joints you can then add the 'ribbon' pictures would probably help here!!!
The 'Ribbon' the decorative finished joint which is a mixture of fine silver sand and lime mixed and is stored in airtight container to maintain it as putty.
The Putty is made by dissolving lime in water, run the lime through a sieve, continue adding lime until it becomes a thick creamy consistency, the joint putty which is either white, black, or red is laid on after the work is stopped.
The white putty is a mixture of chalk lime, which must be well screened/sieved, add silver sand or marble dust, a small quantity of oil or size being added to the lime whilst dry. Black and red putty are both made with grey lime and fine well-washed sand, the former being coloured with lamp or vegetable black, and the latter with Spanish brown. Vegetable black mixes the most readily with the other ingredients or modern equivilent colortone.
What you need is a frenchman and a pointing rule, start by cleaning all the loose pointing out with a joint rake, brush all the dust out and washing down with clean water, allow the brickwork to dry slightly.
Start by filling the perp Joins first and then the beds and finish off with the frenchman and rule. When the joints have dried, clean the wall face with a medium-soft banister brush.
Ah found picture sorry if your now bored!!!!!!!!
Arthur Jackson said:
Only bit of advice I can give is that a pointing expert once told me that you must NEVER point with anything stronger than the bricks themselves. Pointing soft-reds with sand and cement, for example, is very wrong.
I was once told that the mortar is to hold the bricks apart, not to stick them together. Most of the mortar on our 55 year old house can be crumbled away with a finger nail, but I'm thinking I'll leave it until it falls out on its own before I do anything about it.
Quite a lot of s
t advice on here. You'll be fine with a mix of 6:1, that will be six yellow building sand and one cement, Mastercrete or similar will be better than OPC (Ordinary Portland Cement). No more than a couple of caps of Febmix. If the pointing hasn't been struck with a trowel (smooth finish) use a length of blue waterpipe, once brushed it will give a finish to suit a 30s house, ie exposed grains of sand in the joints and showing a mil or two of the brick arris.
t advice on here. You'll be fine with a mix of 6:1, that will be six yellow building sand and one cement, Mastercrete or similar will be better than OPC (Ordinary Portland Cement). No more than a couple of caps of Febmix. If the pointing hasn't been struck with a trowel (smooth finish) use a length of blue waterpipe, once brushed it will give a finish to suit a 30s house, ie exposed grains of sand in the joints and showing a mil or two of the brick arris.V12Les said:
Quite a lot of st advice on here. You'll be fine with a mix of 6:1, that will be six yellow building sand and one cement, Mastercrete or similar will be better than OPC (Ordinary Portland Cement). No more than a couple of caps of Febmix. If the pointing hasn't been struck with a trowel (smooth finish) use a length of blue waterpipe, once brushed it will give a finish to suit a 30s house, ie exposed grains of sand in the joints and showing a mil or two of the brick arris.
That was my original thoughts of how to do the job in the first place.t advice on here. You'll be fine with a mix of 6:1, that will be six yellow building sand and one cement, Mastercrete or similar will be better than OPC (Ordinary Portland Cement). No more than a couple of caps of Febmix. If the pointing hasn't been struck with a trowel (smooth finish) use a length of blue waterpipe, once brushed it will give a finish to suit a 30s house, ie exposed grains of sand in the joints and showing a mil or two of the brick arris.TBH i only need it to look nice for a year or so as we intend putting the house on the market in the new year
Glyn.
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