Heating problems! New boiler quote.
Discussion
A long post I know but I am in genuine need of some advice.
Winter is on the way so we have decided to sort out the heating in out. We currently have a very old gravity fed system that has been changed and adapted by previous owners, with header tank in loft with a small cylinder and oil fired boiler about 7 years old but well looked after (there is no immersion). This set up has a few problems, the main one being that when we put the hot water on the upstairs radiators come on also. They have to be turned off on the stats but is is far from ideal to be heating water that is not needed. I'm not sure if the upstairs rads were just taken off the hot water feed for ease and a friend suggested it could be that a non return valve has been left out nearer the boiler? Either way these problems need to be sorted.
The end goal is to have a new family bathroom with mixer shower that will enable us to ditch the electric one we currently have. The new system will need to service a small downstairs wc, kitchen, upstairs bathroom and possibly a master en suite in the future.
I have had two quotes so far, first suggested I keep my boiler but replace my cylinder for a pressurized vented cylinder and remedy the problems with the pipework. Strip out redundant pipework tank and cylinder and take a hot and cold feed over to the new bathroom ready for when we can afford to do it. £2000 for parts a labour.
Second person suggested I replace my boiler for a Grant Vortex 26 oil-fed external combi allowing me to get rid of the old tanks in the loft and cylinder. They would install this and connect into my existing system and remedy the pipework problems. Strip out my old tanks cylinder and associated pipework. Lay a new oil line to my tank about 15meters(the boiler will be sited on other side of the house nearer to my bathroom), install remote safety shut off valve, condensate pipe and electrics including new programmer and room stat. Fill, test, vent commission. £4000 parts and labour
Both prices also allow for a new radiator in the dining that currently has no heating. The job is not straightforward as the house is very old and has a few quirks.
My question is what is the best option? Do I really need a new boiler or is this the most economical long term option? We run off oil so does it make sense to keep heating a large cylinder for hot water? Will the quoted combi boiler be man enough to service the needs of our house? We hope to have two children here but its just my wife and I for a couple of years yet, its a detached three bed stone cottage and we have no plan to move house.
Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated.
Winter is on the way so we have decided to sort out the heating in out. We currently have a very old gravity fed system that has been changed and adapted by previous owners, with header tank in loft with a small cylinder and oil fired boiler about 7 years old but well looked after (there is no immersion). This set up has a few problems, the main one being that when we put the hot water on the upstairs radiators come on also. They have to be turned off on the stats but is is far from ideal to be heating water that is not needed. I'm not sure if the upstairs rads were just taken off the hot water feed for ease and a friend suggested it could be that a non return valve has been left out nearer the boiler? Either way these problems need to be sorted.
The end goal is to have a new family bathroom with mixer shower that will enable us to ditch the electric one we currently have. The new system will need to service a small downstairs wc, kitchen, upstairs bathroom and possibly a master en suite in the future.
I have had two quotes so far, first suggested I keep my boiler but replace my cylinder for a pressurized vented cylinder and remedy the problems with the pipework. Strip out redundant pipework tank and cylinder and take a hot and cold feed over to the new bathroom ready for when we can afford to do it. £2000 for parts a labour.
Second person suggested I replace my boiler for a Grant Vortex 26 oil-fed external combi allowing me to get rid of the old tanks in the loft and cylinder. They would install this and connect into my existing system and remedy the pipework problems. Strip out my old tanks cylinder and associated pipework. Lay a new oil line to my tank about 15meters(the boiler will be sited on other side of the house nearer to my bathroom), install remote safety shut off valve, condensate pipe and electrics including new programmer and room stat. Fill, test, vent commission. £4000 parts and labour
Both prices also allow for a new radiator in the dining that currently has no heating. The job is not straightforward as the house is very old and has a few quirks.
My question is what is the best option? Do I really need a new boiler or is this the most economical long term option? We run off oil so does it make sense to keep heating a large cylinder for hot water? Will the quoted combi boiler be man enough to service the needs of our house? We hope to have two children here but its just my wife and I for a couple of years yet, its a detached three bed stone cottage and we have no plan to move house.
Any feedback or thoughts would be appreciated.
Yup, Combi in rental properties (they're very easy to fit, which is probably why the heating engineer has suggested it), but always, always, always a 'proper' system boiler with a hot water tank for your own home.
It's more of a bugger to fit as there's more pipework, but a much, much better system to live with.
Sounds like your three way valve is stuck or not working (hence radiators coming on with hot water), a decent engineer should be able to sort that with minimum of fuss, they only cost about £50.
Have a look at some heating diagrams and try to get an idea on how they both work, otherwise, I think you risk getting your pants pulled down by somebody over this, and ending up with a cheap/nasty combi system that's nowhere near suitable for the property.
It's more of a bugger to fit as there's more pipework, but a much, much better system to live with.
Sounds like your three way valve is stuck or not working (hence radiators coming on with hot water), a decent engineer should be able to sort that with minimum of fuss, they only cost about £50.
Have a look at some heating diagrams and try to get an idea on how they both work, otherwise, I think you risk getting your pants pulled down by somebody over this, and ending up with a cheap/nasty combi system that's nowhere near suitable for the property.
I wouldn't go for a combi, they can fur up, have slow response times and are not efficient.
An unvented cylinder needs building regs notification and yearly inspection (aparently, best check on that though). A thermal store doesn't and can be DIY fit if you can make a compression joint. Neither necassarily needs a new boiler, infact there is some argument against fitting a new boiler as it will be condensing and operates at higher temps then thermal stores and non vented systems like to be most efficiant.
Your rads getting hot is probably just convection currents in your system while the hot water is on. I don't think a one way valve would fix it. The best sure fire way to fix it is a fully pumped zoned system (uses an electric valve to regulate demand between upstairs and downstairs). Temporary fix while you're deciding on a new system has to be to shut the rads down individually. You'll find you shut one down and another will heat up.
An unvented cylinder needs building regs notification and yearly inspection (aparently, best check on that though). A thermal store doesn't and can be DIY fit if you can make a compression joint. Neither necassarily needs a new boiler, infact there is some argument against fitting a new boiler as it will be condensing and operates at higher temps then thermal stores and non vented systems like to be most efficiant.
Your rads getting hot is probably just convection currents in your system while the hot water is on. I don't think a one way valve would fix it. The best sure fire way to fix it is a fully pumped zoned system (uses an electric valve to regulate demand between upstairs and downstairs). Temporary fix while you're deciding on a new system has to be to shut the rads down individually. You'll find you shut one down and another will heat up.
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