Fire door vs smoke alarm

[x5x3]

we are in the process of having our loft converted to two rooms, we have been told that for fire regs we either need fire door fitted to all habitable rooms or a smoke alarm (interlinked) in each room.

I have a number of questions;

1) is this correct?
2) is the downside of the extra alarms (we seem to get a lot of false alarms - of course always in the middle of the night!)
3) future re-sale value?

for reference we currently have one downstairs in the hall and one on the landing, I assumed they would just put one on the new top floor but it seems to be far more complex than that?

thanks in advance!

[CatherineJ]

Not sure but I know our smoke alarms are interlinked.

[karona]

To clarify, you need either:
1) A secure route to a place of safety, which means that every room opening onto your escape route must have a fireproof door, so that fire doesn't spread into your escape route.
or
2) A means of raising the alarm early enough for you to escape from the building before the smoke gets too thick for you to get out.

A fireproof door is completely useless if it is left open, so really needs a self closer, but, considering the low cost of smoke alarms, why not go for 1) and 2)?

I'd rather be outside waiting on the Fire Service, not inside.

[x5x3]

karona said:

considering the low cost of smoke alarms, why not go for 1) and 2)?

I think this is part of my dilemma - they originally quoted for fire doors and now are trying to say smoke alarms are better - it seems to me there is quite a cost difference?

[Kermit power]

Have you checked with your local council?

We're about to embark on a loft conversion as well, and we've been told we have to have fire doors on every room and at least one interlinked smoke detector on each floor.

Regulations do seem to vary from council to council though. Our architect told me that if we were in Guildford, we'd even have to have a fire door on the under-stairs cupboard!

[x5x3]

Kermit power said:

Have you checked with your local council?

We're about to embark on a loft conversion as well, and we've been told we have to have fire doors on every room and at least one interlinked smoke detector on each floor.

Regulations do seem to vary from council to council though. Our architect told me that if we were in Guildford, we'd even have to have a fire door on the under-stairs cupboard!

that is not quite what we have been told - we can replace each door with an alarm in each room instead

[Busamav]

x5x3 said:

[
that is not quite what we have been told - we can replace each door with an alarm in each room instead

I would not trust that advice

[northwest monkey]

x5x3 said:

Kermit power said:

Have you checked with your local council?

We're about to embark on a loft conversion as well, and we've been told we have to have fire doors on every room and at least one interlinked smoke detector on each floor.

Regulations do seem to vary from council to council though. Our architect told me that if we were in Guildford, we'd even have to have a fire door on the under-stairs cupboard!

that is not quite what we have been told - we can replace each door with an alarm in each room instead

Not much good having an alarm but no fire door if your exit is blocked. Get a proper fire door & a proper smoke/heat alarm. I'd be incredibly surprised if you've been told you don't need fire doors - is this the internet telling you this or your local Building Regs dept?

[toomuchbeer]

All loft conversions will have to meet the latest building regulations and be certified by the local Building Control Officer. This is because the loft is being turned into ‘habitable space’ which must therefore have suitable levels of health and safety. With this in mind, the following areas are particularly important:

Your loft conversion will more than likely turn your home into a building with three or more stories, in which case certified fire doors, with self-closing mechanisms, will need to be fitted to staircases, escape routes and communal areas.

A fire exit must be provided from the roof. This will most often be in the form of a window, glazed with safety glass and with a minimum openable area of 0.33m2 (3½ sqft).

In addition to the above, you will require mains operated smoke detectors.

So in short, you require BOTH, fire doors and smile detectors. But get your building control officer around. He will tell you what is needed, as some authorities accept the existing doors being fitted with door closers, but all will require smoke detection.

[SaTTaN]

If you are worried about false alarms maybe consider a different/better type of smoke alarm - we have carbon monoxide based fire alarms and in 3 years of incinerating toast in the kitchen its only gone off once - which was because we had left the door open and a car running (exhaust pointing through the door... not clever!)

Was told by the salesdrone at the time that CO based detectors are better at detecting early start fires, such as smouldering wires etc. it's a different detection from burning food etc. as furnishings give off a different type of gas/particulate mix.

Hopefully I won't get the chance to try it out for real

[x5x3]

thanks all for the replies - but unfortunately everyone seems to have a different answer - as someone suggested I will speak to the local building control and try to get a definitive answer.

toomuchbeer said:

Your loft conversion will more than likely turn your home into a building with three or more stories, in which case certified fire doors, with self-closing mechanisms, will need to be fitted to staircases, escape routes and communal areas.

A fire exit must be provided from the roof. This will most often be in the form of a window, glazed with safety glass and with a minimum openable area of 0.33m2 (3½ sqft).

We have been told that the government changed the rules on self-closing fire doors and they are no longer required - which of course makes them pretty pointless. Apparently the fire brigade were not happy they were not consulted on this, but there again when does the government ask the people who may know best!

We have also been told that we do not require a roof escape as (I think) we have a proper set of stairs going up and combined with doors and/or alarms this is adequate.

[eps]

x5x3 said:

Kermit power said:

Have you checked with your local council?

We're about to embark on a loft conversion as well, and we've been told we have to have fire doors on every room and at least one interlinked smoke detector on each floor.

Regulations do seem to vary from council to council though. Our architect told me that if we were in Guildford, we'd even have to have a fire door on the under-stairs cupboard!

that is not quite what we have been told - we can replace each door with an alarm in each room instead

Who told you this? Ask your local Building Control Officer. Fire Doors only. (min FD30s)

This is a domestic dwelling and not a HMO or similar..

[x5x3]

eps said:

x5x3 said:

Kermit power said:

Have you checked with your local council?

We're about to embark on a loft conversion as well, and we've been told we have to have fire doors on every room and at least one interlinked smoke detector on each floor.

Regulations do seem to vary from council to council though. Our architect told me that if we were in Guildford, we'd even have to have a fire door on the under-stairs cupboard!

that is not quite what we have been told - we can replace each door with an alarm in each room instead

Who told you this? Ask your local Building Control Officer. Fire Doors only. (min FD30s)

This is a domestic dwelling and not a HMO or similar..

I have spoken to a very helpful chap in the local building conrtrol office this morning and he said much the same - except he quoted FD20 - without self closer and without smoke seals.

[Busamav]

Is it the loft of a house or a bungalow you are converting ?

[Busamav]

x5x3 said:

We have been told that the government changed the rules on self-closing fire doors and they are no longer required -

We have also been told that we do not require a roof escape as (I think) we have a proper set of stairs going up and combined with doors and/or alarms this is adequate.

You have been told correctly on the above.

Is it a house and not a bungalow loft we are talking about here ?



As per your earlier posts, having smoke alarms in lieu of fire doors is not allowed.

[d50cyx]

When I did my loft conversion, my building regs chap told me that if I had a sprinkler system with a completely separate water supply then I needn't have a door anywhere! Turns out that's an expensive option.

Another advantage of proper fire doors is that they're really heavy, which helps with acoustic insulation, and they feel really solid.

Can't see what real impact this would have on cost though. Doors are not expensive, and neither are smoke alarms or the cable between them.

Helpful hint - your kitchen should get a heat alarm, rather than a smoke alarm. Make sure you position this as far away from your oven as possible.

[Steve_D]

Alarms that give false warnings are worse than useless as they will get ignored or not treated seriously.

I have linked mains alarms and have never had a false alarm in 8 years. I've set them off with burnt toast but that is understandable. I also have a heat sensor in the garage as part of the system. My most valued possession lives in the garage.

Steve

[blinkythefish]

Steve_D said:

Alarms that give false warnings are worse than useless as they will get ignored or not treated seriously.

I have linked mains alarms and have never had a false alarm in 8 years. I've set them off with burnt toast but that is understandable. I also have a heat sensor in the garage as part of the system. My most valued possession lives in the garage.

Steve

I have linked mains alarms too and I have never had any false alarms. Made sure I have a heat detector in the kitchen though......

As someone said earlier, the alarms, doors, wires closers and smoke seals are not really dear so it is sensible to put in the lot - regardless of what the council say is the minimum(they told me I only needed FD30, with no alarms). If they even buy you an extra five minutes it'll be the best money you ever spend.

[PAUL. S]

unless the regs have changed again recently, if you are just converting an exisitng loft space into a habitable room, any existing doors which open into the planned means of escape route only have to have self closers fitted, they dont have to be changed to fire rated ones. You do have to have a linked smoke detector system fitted at each floor level including the attic.

If the work also includes alterations to the existing means of escape route then you have to fit fire rated doors.

[Busamav]

PAUL. S said:

unless the regs have changed again recently, if you are just converting an exisitng loft space into a habitable room, any existing doors which open into the planned means of escape route only have to have self closers fitted, they dont have to be changed to fire rated ones.
.

regs changed some time ago from that.