Buying and selling - whats the etiquette?
Discussion
We live in a decent area and are quite happy here but we've started to realise that we're running out of space since our son was born and relatives will soon not have a room to sleep in when they visit. It's a 2 bed former coach house with not much option to extend without a lot of expense. Given the last point I've started thinking about moving again to a bigger place but still local.
I've been keeping an eye on whats available locally for the last year or so and there's really been nothing that took my fancy but recently there's been a few nice ones come on that are going Sold STC quite quickly. I'm interested in looking at one or two recently advertised and maybe making an offer but I would have to put my place on the market too obviously.
So, last time I moved I put the flat up for sale and decided that we would rent if we hadn't found anywhere suitable. This time though I quite like the house we are in (it's just a couple of rooms too small) and wouldn't want to put it up for sale until we at least had an indication that we would have an offer accepted on the other place so that if we didn't get it we would just stay where we are for the time being.
Whats the normal procedure on this? Assuming I then had an offer on mine how do we agree dates etc along the chain? Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Whats changed in the last few years? Estate Agents fees? Is it worth offering them an extra 0.5% if they can sell within 6 weeks or something like that (offer a carrot to get their attention kind of thing).
Before I get some negative threads about sell before buying etc... I generally don't look at a place unless I am prepared to go to asking price to get it although I would start with a reasonable offer to test the water so to speak. The one I'm wanting to look at is no chain so would ultimately be at the top of the chain unless they get a FTB (unlikely given the price) or another no chain buyer coming in.
I've been keeping an eye on whats available locally for the last year or so and there's really been nothing that took my fancy but recently there's been a few nice ones come on that are going Sold STC quite quickly. I'm interested in looking at one or two recently advertised and maybe making an offer but I would have to put my place on the market too obviously.
So, last time I moved I put the flat up for sale and decided that we would rent if we hadn't found anywhere suitable. This time though I quite like the house we are in (it's just a couple of rooms too small) and wouldn't want to put it up for sale until we at least had an indication that we would have an offer accepted on the other place so that if we didn't get it we would just stay where we are for the time being.
Whats the normal procedure on this? Assuming I then had an offer on mine how do we agree dates etc along the chain? Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Whats changed in the last few years? Estate Agents fees? Is it worth offering them an extra 0.5% if they can sell within 6 weeks or something like that (offer a carrot to get their attention kind of thing).
Before I get some negative threads about sell before buying etc... I generally don't look at a place unless I am prepared to go to asking price to get it although I would start with a reasonable offer to test the water so to speak. The one I'm wanting to look at is no chain so would ultimately be at the top of the chain unless they get a FTB (unlikely given the price) or another no chain buyer coming in.
I know you don´t want any negative posts, but as a seller I would do the following:
Thankyou very much for your offer, I can´t accept it until I know you are in a position to proceed (once you have a sale agreed on your property) I will continue to market my property until I recieve an offer which enables me to move within a short timescale of agreeing a price
You might be lucky and get someone who is over the moon with an asking price offer, but if you´re not ready to go, then you´re not really in a position at all.
Good luck
T-J-K
Thankyou very much for your offer, I can´t accept it until I know you are in a position to proceed (once you have a sale agreed on your property) I will continue to market my property until I recieve an offer which enables me to move within a short timescale of agreeing a price
You might be lucky and get someone who is over the moon with an asking price offer, but if you´re not ready to go, then you´re not really in a position at all.
Good luck
T-J-K
Ok, I guess I should have expected that. Anyway, if every seller said thanks for the offer but come back when you've sold your place then we'd probably all be waiting a long time and not many people would move. Regardless, this house looks like the people have already moved out, it might be an inheritance sale or a downsize but they don't seem to come on the market very often.
Next answer, yes, I do want to sell to buy the right place but I'm not going to sell for the sake of it without having the right place to go to.
So, anyone want to answer the question about the carrot for the estate agent to try and get them to work a bit harder to make a sale?
Next answer, yes, I do want to sell to buy the right place but I'm not going to sell for the sake of it without having the right place to go to.
So, anyone want to answer the question about the carrot for the estate agent to try and get them to work a bit harder to make a sale?
Well, we viewed & had an offer accepted on our current house before we'd even had a serious viewing with our old house, so not unlike yourself I guess.
I reckon the thing is to be very honest with everyone concerned, and most importantly with the folks selling the one you want to buy. We just sat down with the guy, told him what the position with ours, what our estate agents had said about our local market, etc. Then I said I'd be prepared to lodge a nominal £5k deposit with their solicitors on the basis that if we didn't proceed with the deal, they could keep the money. If he backed out then the deposit was refunded plus interest at 5%, which was about the going rate then.
They thought about it and agreed, both our solicitors were fine with it but the selling estate agents were very offhand and wanted to continue marketing the house. They had a very frosty conversation with me, inferring that we couldn't afford the property and they certainly didn't like the deposit-deal we'd done with the vendor. The seller instructed them back off, we kept in touch with the sellers every few weeks so they knew where we were up to, ours sold and we'd all moved about 4 months later.
So it's not impossible; just talk to people and have a definite plan as you would in any business deal. For example you need to have yours ready and know how you'll market it, estate agents, where the finance is coming from, contingencies, etc.
I reckon the thing is to be very honest with everyone concerned, and most importantly with the folks selling the one you want to buy. We just sat down with the guy, told him what the position with ours, what our estate agents had said about our local market, etc. Then I said I'd be prepared to lodge a nominal £5k deposit with their solicitors on the basis that if we didn't proceed with the deal, they could keep the money. If he backed out then the deposit was refunded plus interest at 5%, which was about the going rate then.
They thought about it and agreed, both our solicitors were fine with it but the selling estate agents were very offhand and wanted to continue marketing the house. They had a very frosty conversation with me, inferring that we couldn't afford the property and they certainly didn't like the deposit-deal we'd done with the vendor. The seller instructed them back off, we kept in touch with the sellers every few weeks so they knew where we were up to, ours sold and we'd all moved about 4 months later.
So it's not impossible; just talk to people and have a definite plan as you would in any business deal. For example you need to have yours ready and know how you'll market it, estate agents, where the finance is coming from, contingencies, etc.
speed8 said:
Anyway, if every seller said thanks for the offer but come back when you've sold your place then we'd probably all be waiting a long time and not many people would move.
Since it's conventionally accepted that you have to be in a position to buy to actually proceed, you are really disadvantaging yourself if your house isn't even on the market. There will be plenty of buyers out there who are already on the market, or in rented accommodation, or whatever; why would any seller be interested in your offer over theirs?Not to mention the fact that it takes up to 2 weeks to get your HIP sorted out before you can even market your property, before you then go through the same process with potential buyers of your house not being in a position to proceed. I can imagine a transaction taking a year or more if people didn't market their own houses before offering on a purchase.
If you find a place you really want, either arrange finance so that you can buy it before you've sold your house or expect to be gazumped. Or market yours now.
Thanks for the constructive comments about the time it takes for HIPS and a real world solution, HIPS wasn't around when I bought the current place.
My place can easily be on the market in a few weeks (just been recently carpeted and redecorated) and seeing as I'm offshore for a few weeks more anyway then thats fine as I wouldn't be putting an offer in without viewing myself and HIPS can be done in that time. Assuming the other place is then still for sale I don't see the problem. They're quite within their rights to say no. If it's already gone then I've lost a few quid on the HIPS unless another place comes up. How long does HIPS last for?
I would be perfectly able to get a mortgage offer in principal without having to use the equity in my current house but it would be better to not have to rely on that as I can obviously get better deals with a better LTV.
So since we've got it out the way that I'm an ar5e for even considering looking at a place before marketing mine can we get past that fact now???
My place can easily be on the market in a few weeks (just been recently carpeted and redecorated) and seeing as I'm offshore for a few weeks more anyway then thats fine as I wouldn't be putting an offer in without viewing myself and HIPS can be done in that time. Assuming the other place is then still for sale I don't see the problem. They're quite within their rights to say no. If it's already gone then I've lost a few quid on the HIPS unless another place comes up. How long does HIPS last for?
I would be perfectly able to get a mortgage offer in principal without having to use the equity in my current house but it would be better to not have to rely on that as I can obviously get better deals with a better LTV.
So since we've got it out the way that I'm an ar5e for even considering looking at a place before marketing mine can we get past that fact now???
We're in the middle of buying a house at the moment.
To circumvent the problem of creating a chain, we decided to put up the deposit in cash and keep our current place, buy somewhere chain-free from our side, and then sell later on when the market has picked up a bit. This has the added advantage of allowing us to move in our own good time, rather than all in one hit.
All fine and dandy. Offer accepted, vendors go off to find somewhere to live.
Just our luck that the vendor of their dream home is a PITA. First of all, he wouldn't put in offers on places he liked "because he was applying for planning permission first to see if he could extend". His agents have told him this isn't a very clever way of buying a house if you're selling one as well. So now the excuse is that the house he likes has to go through probate, then it has to be remarketed, the HIPS has to be redone, etc. etc.
Of course, despite our nice, chain-free position, we're stuck now while some dimwit miles from here, whom we'll never meet, is procrastinating. And believe me, it's the most annoying thing in the world to have done all the legwork, put everything in place and to then be held up by some stranger whose favourite pastimes are watching "buy 'em cheap, sell 'em dear" house buying programmes and dreaming.
So my advice would be at least to market your house but shop around for a new one even before it sells. You can always withdraw it if you decide you want to stay. Good luck with it.
To circumvent the problem of creating a chain, we decided to put up the deposit in cash and keep our current place, buy somewhere chain-free from our side, and then sell later on when the market has picked up a bit. This has the added advantage of allowing us to move in our own good time, rather than all in one hit.
All fine and dandy. Offer accepted, vendors go off to find somewhere to live.
Just our luck that the vendor of their dream home is a PITA. First of all, he wouldn't put in offers on places he liked "because he was applying for planning permission first to see if he could extend". His agents have told him this isn't a very clever way of buying a house if you're selling one as well. So now the excuse is that the house he likes has to go through probate, then it has to be remarketed, the HIPS has to be redone, etc. etc.
Of course, despite our nice, chain-free position, we're stuck now while some dimwit miles from here, whom we'll never meet, is procrastinating. And believe me, it's the most annoying thing in the world to have done all the legwork, put everything in place and to then be held up by some stranger whose favourite pastimes are watching "buy 'em cheap, sell 'em dear" house buying programmes and dreaming.
So my advice would be at least to market your house but shop around for a new one even before it sells. You can always withdraw it if you decide you want to stay. Good luck with it.
You never know how things will work out, as you are dealing with people - and they're all different.
Four years ago in late June, we went to look at a house having decided that we wanted to move out of our flat. When we saw this particular house, we knew it was the place we really wanted. We needed to sell 2 flats to buy it. One needed some serious decorating etc, the other a wall built to create a second bedroom..
We were very honest with the sellers of the house who were buying a new retirement bungalow 150 miles away, and had lived in the house for the last 40 years.
We asked what the best price was they would accept, and offered them that price which was just below the original asking price and said we'd have the flats on the market in 2-3 weeks.
They accepted the verbal offer, and thus began the most hectic few weeks of our lives getting the flats on the market.
The day after we made the offer, a doctor went round to view the house (already had an appointment to view it via the estate agent) and offered the full asking price as a cash buyer.
They turned the offer down, and said that they'd agreed a deal with us, and their word was their word. Their estate agent was livid, and strongly advised them to sell to the doctor immediately. Also then continually tried getting other people round to view it, whilst undermining our position to the sellers. The sellers quickly took a dislike to the estate agent.
We kept the sellers updated directly (cutting out the estate agent) on our progress getting the flats to market, and indeed 3 weeks later both flats were on the market. One sold pretty quickly, the other took a couple of weeks longer, but did sell.
We moved in in early October (3 months after seeing the house), and have no plans to move again for a good many years (probably not before we retire)!
We still keep in touch with the couple and occasionally go to visit them at their new place.
The deal only was possible (in spite of the estate agent) because of the integrity of the sellers, and our complete honesty in our situation.
Lessons we learned are:
1. There are some very decent people out there.
2. It sometimes does pay to be totally honest and upfront.
3. Never, ever trust an estate agent.
Four years ago in late June, we went to look at a house having decided that we wanted to move out of our flat. When we saw this particular house, we knew it was the place we really wanted. We needed to sell 2 flats to buy it. One needed some serious decorating etc, the other a wall built to create a second bedroom..
We were very honest with the sellers of the house who were buying a new retirement bungalow 150 miles away, and had lived in the house for the last 40 years.
We asked what the best price was they would accept, and offered them that price which was just below the original asking price and said we'd have the flats on the market in 2-3 weeks.
They accepted the verbal offer, and thus began the most hectic few weeks of our lives getting the flats on the market.
The day after we made the offer, a doctor went round to view the house (already had an appointment to view it via the estate agent) and offered the full asking price as a cash buyer.
They turned the offer down, and said that they'd agreed a deal with us, and their word was their word. Their estate agent was livid, and strongly advised them to sell to the doctor immediately. Also then continually tried getting other people round to view it, whilst undermining our position to the sellers. The sellers quickly took a dislike to the estate agent.
We kept the sellers updated directly (cutting out the estate agent) on our progress getting the flats to market, and indeed 3 weeks later both flats were on the market. One sold pretty quickly, the other took a couple of weeks longer, but did sell.
We moved in in early October (3 months after seeing the house), and have no plans to move again for a good many years (probably not before we retire)!
We still keep in touch with the couple and occasionally go to visit them at their new place.
The deal only was possible (in spite of the estate agent) because of the integrity of the sellers, and our complete honesty in our situation.
Lessons we learned are:
1. There are some very decent people out there.
2. It sometimes does pay to be totally honest and upfront.
3. Never, ever trust an estate agent.
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