Fired the builders...advise needed on next step

[_DeeJay_]

I could probably break the all time post-length record with this one, but I'll try to keep it brief.

- We employed a seemingly professional building firm to complete some renovation work on our house with a relatively short timescale (we have a hard deadline due to the birth of our first child!).

- Over the course of their engagement, they delivered work that was of a very poor standard (and often totally incorrect), took 4 times as long as promised and damaged lots of our property in the process

- On Saturday we decided we'd had enough as they were seemingly damaging more than they were fixing, so asked them to leave

We've catalogued all the various events that have occurred (the floods, ceilings collapsing, plaster falling off, burgular alarms being destroyed, furniture scratched etc) and went through them before we asked him to leave (and at regular points throughout the work).

We had a tiler round at the weekend to look at some of their work in the bathroom and they confirmed our suspicions; It was an clumsy job, the tiles were cut badly, stuck to plasterboard which wouldn't take the weight in the long term, stuck with the wrong technique (not enough adhesive basically), with the wrong sort of adhesive and they'd wasted approximately 50% of the tiles through messing up the cuts.

So, we're left in the position of having to rectify the mistakes. We still owe the builder a sizeable amount of cash and were planning to deduct the cost of any remedial work they we require doing.

However, I'm not sure how to do that. Do we appoint tradesmen for each trade, and have them quote, document the state of the job, and cost to fix, and let them get on with it, or do we have to get multiple quotes, get the previous builder to approve them and then get it done?

We'd obviously prefer to do the latter, as my wife is due to give birth in under a fortnight.

Edited by _DeeJay_ on Monday 24th August 10:30

[Roop]

Sorry I can't add anything constructive to your dilemma, but just wanted to say good luck in getting this sorted. What a complete nightmare, especially with SWMBO flying into the drop-zone.

ETFT

Edited by Roop on Monday 24th August 10:22

[NiceCupOfTea]

I can thoroughly sympathise as we have builders in at the moment. Fortunately (crosses fingers) ours have been spot on so far.

Speak to pikey, he had a long running saga with ste builders on his loft conversion.

In the meantime try not to let it impinge on or affect your new arrival - congrats!

[_DeeJay_]

NiceCupOfTea said:

Speak to pikey, he had a long running saga with ste builders on his loft conversion.

In the meantime try not to let it impinge on or affect your new arrival - congrats!

Thanks for the words of support.

We stopped them on week 9 (of a 4 week job) so it's somewhat close to the bone!

It's all been a complete nightmare, and proved massively stressful for my other half who not only had to put up with their crap, but also had nowhere to sit for over a month as the living room was upside down.

Fingers crossed the stress levels haven't had any negative effect on the baby.

In my original post I didn't mention that she'd already fallen through the ceiling up to her waist due to their incompetence and is bruised black and blue from the fall and hasn't been able to sleep comfortably for weeks as a result. We also had a somewhat stressful trip to A&E and the maternity ward to get junior checked out (which thankfully was OK).

I'll PM Pikey too - thanks for the tip.

[ClaphamGT3]

Hi

PM me letting me know what form of contract you have used with them, what you have paid them to-date & on what basis, how much retention you are holding against them & a summary of the formal correspondence between you setting out your concerns and their responses.

Sorry to make it all sound complex but giving the right advice will depend on a detailed understanding of the specific facts

[Howard-]

_DeeJay_ said:

In my original post I didn't mention that she'd already fallen through the ceiling up to her waist due to their incompetence and is bruised black and blue from the fall and hasn't been able to sleep comfortably for weeks as a result. We also had a somewhat stressful trip to A&E and the maternity ward to get junior checked out (which thankfully was OK).

Bloody hell

[NiceCupOfTea]

[Dupont666]

Howard- said:

_DeeJay_ said:

In my original post I didn't mention that she'd already fallen through the ceiling up to her waist due to their incompetence and is bruised black and blue from the fall and hasn't been able to sleep comfortably for weeks as a result. We also had a somewhat stressful trip to A&E and the maternity ward to get junior checked out (which thankfully was OK).

Bloody hell

At this point the nearest builder would have been learning to fly out of the window if that had happened to my OH and they would have a fking huge compensation claim if anything had happened to her.

That sir is just not on and Im suprised you lasted so long.

[JudgeMental]

_DeeJay_ said:

In my original post I didn't mention that she'd already fallen through the ceiling up to her waist due to their incompetence and is bruised black and blue from the fall and hasn't been able to sleep comfortably for weeks as a result. We also had a somewhat stressful trip to A&E and the maternity ward to get junior checked out (which thankfully was OK).

As much as I loathe them, Claims Direct is your friend here. It sounds as if your wife had a very horrible experience there! If nothing else it will tie them up in knots whilst you get the aftermath of their cock-ups sorted. Photograph every thing they have done. I would look to do the minimum to make the house habitable and then sort it out properly after the baby has landed.

[King Herald]

_DeeJay_ said:

So, we're left in the position of having to rectify the mistakes. We still owe the builder a sizeable amount of cash and were planning to deduct the cost of any remedial work they we require doing.

I'd be inclined not to give them another penny. Tell them you'll see them in court if they even think about getting more off you. Tell them they have basically destroyed your house through their utter incompetence. Good move not to pay them all the cash up front like others have done.

But, there are always two sides to every disaster. I'm curious how a builder could make so much tragedy from a basic job, and still remain in business. Do they have some excuse for their incompetence?

[_DeeJay_]

Dupont666 said:

Howard- said:

_DeeJay_ said:

In my original post I didn't mention that she'd already fallen through the ceiling up to her waist due to their incompetence and is bruised black and blue from the fall and hasn't been able to sleep comfortably for weeks as a result. We also had a somewhat stressful trip to A&E and the maternity ward to get junior checked out (which thankfully was OK).

Bloody hell

At this point the nearest builder would have been learning to fly out of the window if that had happened to my OH and they would have a fking huge compensation claim if anything had happened to her.

That sir is just not on and Im suprised you lasted so long.

You'd have thought so... though at the time my only concern was getting her out of the room and into a more comfortable/safe position. She was obviously very shaken up, not only from the shock of falling but more by the realisation of what could have happened.

Apparently, her father mentioned compensation claims and the builder replied that he'd been working 'extra hard' since that point, and something about insurance premiums.

I'd reached the end of my tether about a month ago and would have gotten rid, but we couldn't find any decent builders who could complete the job ahead of the birth and by that point the nesting instinct had completely taken over and we were pretty much past the point of no return.

We thought we'd chosen the lesser of two evils; a clumsy builder over a dusty, dangerous, none baby friendly house but in hindsight it was definitely the wrong decision...

[_DeeJay_]

King Herald said:

But, there are always two sides to every disaster. I'm curious how a builder could make so much tragedy from a basic job, and still remain in business. Do they have some excuse for their incompetence?

We asked ourselves the same question - we were just incredibly unlucky/too picky?

Their excuses would have been amusing if they weren't so ludicrous, like the reason they flooded the house was because 'there were all kinds of other pipes under the floor' - well, erm yes, you'd have thought you'd have used a pipe detector rather than cut through them?

We've since found out that their previous ltd company (named almost identically) is insolvent and despite working for a 'group' in a particular division he's actually just a one man band. It sounds like he's working hand to mouth - literally asked for £30 to go and buy materials as he was waiting for a cheque to clear (which never seems to).

The contractors he had in walked off the job when they weren't paid and have mentioned other jobs where the clients didn't pay. Sadly, it's all beginning to add up, but too late.

Edited by _DeeJay_ on Monday 24th August 11:02

Edited by _DeeJay_ on Monday 24th August 11:03

[Slagathore]

Absolute joke!

I wouldn't be paying them a penny more.

I would also be looking at taking some sort of legal action against them. How many other homes are they gunna mess up?

Is their work fully insured and guarenteed?

I'd start ringing up as many tradesman as possible, explaining the situation. Get them to have a look around and then get written evidence of what they think of the quality of work. If it's as bad as you say, they'll have no trouble spotting it. I know most builders don't like the st builders giving them all a bad name.

If the guy is that desperate for money, I can see him arguing about not being paid the last amount, so best to start preparing for it now.

[_DeeJay_]

That's what we've done.

However, most won't document the current state of the job for legal reasons. We've got a variety of trademen coming around today to spot the issues and give us a quote for completing the work/bringing it up to scratch.

It's what we do at that point. I don't want to end up in court with no admissible evidence and bill for their legal fees lpus what we owe them from the original job. However, I also don't want to pay 400 quid to a surveyor to assess the work and get a written report if it's not necessary.

[Nicholas Blair]

If you haven't already done so, legal counsel would be recommended.

[Busamav]

You may be best served by employing a qualified and registered Surveyor to inspect and comment on the works and any remedials required .

Otherwise its the opinion of one " tradesman " against the other.

[Rude-boy]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Hi

PM me letting me know what form of contract you have used with them, what you have paid them to-date & on what basis, how much retention you are holding against them & a summary of the formal correspondence between you setting out your concerns and their responses.

Sorry to make it all sound complex but giving the right advice will depend on a detailed understanding of the specific facts

IIRC from what I have seen on these boards over the years if this chap is offering to have a look at it all for you you would be well advised to send him a pm.

[_DeeJay_]

Rude-boy said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Hi

PM me letting me know what form of contract you have used with them, what you have paid them to-date & on what basis, how much retention you are holding against them & a summary of the formal correspondence between you setting out your concerns and their responses.

Sorry to make it all sound complex but giving the right advice will depend on a detailed understanding of the specific facts

IIRC from what I have seen on these boards over the years if this chap is offering to have a look at it all for you you would be well advised to send him a pm.

I've done that. He's kindly offered to provide his assessment of my options later in the day.

It sounds like a chartered surveyors report is what we need.

My wife has had an electrician and a tiler around this morning and both have concluded that the associated jobs are very, very poor to the point of elementary inarguable mistakes (like the wrong cable being used, the wrong technique in extending circuits, wrong tire adhesive etc).

It does sounds like everything but the basic building tasks will need to be redone and that we're probably going to end up out of pocket without a visit to court

[carpmaster]

The company you employed to do the work - how did their original quotation compare to the other quotations you received?

[_DeeJay_]

carpmaster said:

The company you employed to do the work - how did their original quotation compare to the other quotations you received?

We picked the middle quote. In order of cost we had one guy who had been made redundant and would work on a very low daily rate, we had a company who were a 2 man band but appeared less than professional, we had another firm who appeared OK, we had the chosen firm and one more who was a couple of thousand higher than the rest. Ironically, we chose the firm we did because of them appearing very professional and experienced; They had software to detail the quote down to the last nail, supposedly a variety of tradesmen working for them who were specialists in their field etc.

In highsight, the expensive quote was probably the only one who had fully understood the requirements (which were actually written and drawn in painstaking levels of detail so hard to misinterpret) and were geared up to complete the job properly.