Remote location house - heating oil or LPG?
Discussion
Morning all; I had a search, but most of the posts regarding costs are a bit old now.
We have to decide on whether to use LPG (bulk tank) or oil to provide heating & hot water for our renovation.
Does anyone have any up-to-date running costs for either system?
Our neighbours reckon they get through about £2000 worth of oil p.a. - like us there's just the two of them and she works from home the same as my other half.
I rang Calor for some guideline figures and at the current 39ppl, the guy reckons on a refill every 5 or 6 weeks at some £425 - that's around £3650 p.a!
It's a 3 bed house that was part of a Georgian rectory (high ceilings etc.) I'll be putting in wet UFH downstairs at least, adding decent insulation in the loft, and replacing the windows with modern wooden sash double-glazed ones.
The only mains utility anywhere near us is electric, and I know that's a heck of a cost for heating etc. as it's what was there when we moved in (old storage heaters).
Any advice gratefully received,
Steve
We have to decide on whether to use LPG (bulk tank) or oil to provide heating & hot water for our renovation.
Does anyone have any up-to-date running costs for either system?
Our neighbours reckon they get through about £2000 worth of oil p.a. - like us there's just the two of them and she works from home the same as my other half.
I rang Calor for some guideline figures and at the current 39ppl, the guy reckons on a refill every 5 or 6 weeks at some £425 - that's around £3650 p.a!
It's a 3 bed house that was part of a Georgian rectory (high ceilings etc.) I'll be putting in wet UFH downstairs at least, adding decent insulation in the loft, and replacing the windows with modern wooden sash double-glazed ones.
The only mains utility anywhere near us is electric, and I know that's a heck of a cost for heating etc. as it's what was there when we moved in (old storage heaters).
Any advice gratefully received,
Steve
Personally I've never used LPG but anecdotal evidence from friends/colleagues/neighbours who have had LPG it is significantly more expensive than oil.
I've just bought 1200l of oil for 34p/litre which will keep me going to around June next year in a 300sq m new build property with underfloor heating. I consider this amazing performance compared to my last house which was slightly smaller but used twice the oil. The key is the insulation.
Of course some folk run Aga's on oil and really consume vast quantities but my guess is an Aga on LPG would be even worse.
My vote would be oil and focus on improving the thermal efficiency of the property whilst keeping an eye on diminishing returns.
I've just bought 1200l of oil for 34p/litre which will keep me going to around June next year in a 300sq m new build property with underfloor heating. I consider this amazing performance compared to my last house which was slightly smaller but used twice the oil. The key is the insulation.
Of course some folk run Aga's on oil and really consume vast quantities but my guess is an Aga on LPG would be even worse.
My vote would be oil and focus on improving the thermal efficiency of the property whilst keeping an eye on diminishing returns.
oil IS cheaper and if more of your enighbours have oil, you can bulk buy and save a bob or two too! !
Also, modern oil control systems even if fitted to an older oil boiler are far mroe efficient. Your enighbours may have an old boiler and simple thermostat arrangment, firing "two cycles" a day. A modern programmable thermostat and running the boiler "constant" brought our oil use down by a solid third litterally by just adding the programmer. All to do with the cycles that the burner is then asked to do.
Anyway, I reckon a modern oil boiler will see additonal savings.
Also, modern oil control systems even if fitted to an older oil boiler are far mroe efficient. Your enighbours may have an old boiler and simple thermostat arrangment, firing "two cycles" a day. A modern programmable thermostat and running the boiler "constant" brought our oil use down by a solid third litterally by just adding the programmer. All to do with the cycles that the burner is then asked to do.
Anyway, I reckon a modern oil boiler will see additonal savings.
We spend about 900 pa on LPG, 3 bed Victorian property.. Loft is well insulated, but nothing else is, although we do have secondary double glazing (a right pita but it does keep the heat in and noise out).
I think you also need to cost out the cost of the boiler, but saying that I think Oil is cheaper in the long run.. Although I'm not sure how long that has to be, as I think Oil boilers are more expensive.. iirc..
I think you also need to cost out the cost of the boiler, but saying that I think Oil is cheaper in the long run.. Although I'm not sure how long that has to be, as I think Oil boilers are more expensive.. iirc..
Recently looked into this on renovating our Norfolk cottage.
LPG has higher running costs but, oil is more expensive to install.
You need to buy the oil tank for a start, as opposed to renting a calor one. That can be anywhere between £500 and £1,200 depending on whether it has to be bunded (double skin)or not. You will need to check with the council on that. Also. oil tanks need to be 5m away from the building and about 0.75m from any boundary.
and, as mentioned already, oil boilers cost a bit more.
I'm going for oil, btw
LPG has higher running costs but, oil is more expensive to install.
You need to buy the oil tank for a start, as opposed to renting a calor one. That can be anywhere between £500 and £1,200 depending on whether it has to be bunded (double skin)or not. You will need to check with the council on that. Also. oil tanks need to be 5m away from the building and about 0.75m from any boundary.
and, as mentioned already, oil boilers cost a bit more.
I'm going for oil, btw
Hmm - didn't know about the oil tank distance from the house, that could be a pain. We would definitely need a double skin/bunded oil tank since we have a stream at the bottom of the garden & are in a conservation area - hate to think of the bill if we had a leak!
Having had a look around most of our neighbours are on oil, but a lot of those are older installs.
The neighbour who spends £2000 p.a. has an Aga-like range (Rangemaster?) that also produces the hot water for both washing & heating.
OH has said that she'd prefer a gas hob - so if we went for oil for main hot water/heating (as seems to be the PH favourite), I can see us having a set up with the 47kg LPG bottles out back with a dedicated feed to the hob! Great!
Having had a look around most of our neighbours are on oil, but a lot of those are older installs.
The neighbour who spends £2000 p.a. has an Aga-like range (Rangemaster?) that also produces the hot water for both washing & heating.
OH has said that she'd prefer a gas hob - so if we went for oil for main hot water/heating (as seems to be the PH favourite), I can see us having a set up with the 47kg LPG bottles out back with a dedicated feed to the hob! Great!
Steve_W said:
OH has said that she'd prefer a gas hob - so if we went for oil for main hot water/heating (as seems to be the PH favourite), I can see us having a set up with the 47kg LPG bottles out back with a dedicated feed to the hob! Great!
No, a couple of 19kg bottles is all you'll need. We do a lot of hob cooking and each bottle lasts at least 9 months (I've used 4 in 3 years)We have oil fired heating and had to replace the original boiler (very ancient with internal baffles to stop heat going out of the flue - probably about 40 year old design) not long after we moved in as it was giving loads of problems and drinking fuel like the proverbial. The old boiler (when it was working) went through 1500 ltrs of fuel between Dec 2007 and Apr 2008 and it wasn't on for more than 4 hours per day and always let us down when we really needed it, with it being out of action for at least 10 weeks over that period.
The new condensing boiler is considerably more efficient, smaller and quieter - heating went on last year around Oct and didn't go off until Apr (was on constantly during Feb, but ticking over on min heat setting as any higher and the house temp was getting on for 25C). Had the tank refilled in Apr as the price of fuel had crashed to 27ppl ! and we'd only used 1300ltrs for heating and hot water. We use an immersion heater during the summer for hot water. I'd say that the new boiler is at least twice as efficient as the last boiler and more likely getting on for three times as efficient.
Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
The new condensing boiler is considerably more efficient, smaller and quieter - heating went on last year around Oct and didn't go off until Apr (was on constantly during Feb, but ticking over on min heat setting as any higher and the house temp was getting on for 25C). Had the tank refilled in Apr as the price of fuel had crashed to 27ppl ! and we'd only used 1300ltrs for heating and hot water. We use an immersion heater during the summer for hot water. I'd say that the new boiler is at least twice as efficient as the last boiler and more likely getting on for three times as efficient.
Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
We have a very large, middle of nowhere 4 bedroom (three with OS) 5 reception 70's house and have the heating on during the winter as much as need be to keep the house nice and cosy with a log fire when I get home most nights.
Our annual usage is about 2000 ltr's at whatever the current cost is - very volatile recently of course! We cook/light/computer/PH using electricity which costs about whatever a month (I don't know how much, but £50 ish sounds about right?)
During the summer months we use bugger all oil as it only heats the water, during winter you can practically see the level dropping by the day!
Bearing in mind we live in the country and we would be last to have us 'lectric fixed in the event of a problem I have also just had a switch installed to the outside, so in the event of a power cut I can plug in a petrol 6kw generator and have some sort of life, hot water, hot food, PH etc
I'd stay with oil in the current climate....
But then I always bet on the wrong colour on a roulette wheel
Our annual usage is about 2000 ltr's at whatever the current cost is - very volatile recently of course! We cook/light/computer/PH using electricity which costs about whatever a month (I don't know how much, but £50 ish sounds about right?)
During the summer months we use bugger all oil as it only heats the water, during winter you can practically see the level dropping by the day!
Bearing in mind we live in the country and we would be last to have us 'lectric fixed in the event of a problem I have also just had a switch installed to the outside, so in the event of a power cut I can plug in a petrol 6kw generator and have some sort of life, hot water, hot food, PH etc
I'd stay with oil in the current climate....
But then I always bet on the wrong colour on a roulette wheel
sybaseian said:
I'd say that the new boiler is at least twice as efficient as the last boiler and more likely getting on for three times as efficient.
Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
I need to be searching out a replacement for our 10 year old boiler. This winter we used well over 220 litrs a week .Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
Large old vicarage with both of us working from home and heating on from 6am to 11pm
Busamav said:
sybaseian said:
I'd say that the new boiler is at least twice as efficient as the last boiler and more likely getting on for three times as efficient.
Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
I need to be searching out a replacement for our 10 year old boiler. This winter we used well over 220 litrs a week .Not bad for a very large 5 bed hall.
Cost was around 2800 fitted.
Large old vicarage with both of us working from home and heating on from 6am to 11pm
M-J-B said:
During the summer months we use bugger all oil as it only heats the water, during winter you can practically see the level dropping by the day!
Same here. Biggish 5 bed / 4 public room country house out in the sticks with high ceilings and all that. Oil tank holds 2500 litres and we probably go through two and a half tanks / year, of which about 90% will be from late October - mid April. The oil fired Aga is now just for show since after realising how much oil it actually went through a few years ago.It would be interesting to do a comparison between oil and a hot water heat pump in the UK.
I've converted a number of houses from oil to a hot water heat pump here in NZ with much reduced running costs. However oil is a world price and electricity (to drive the heat pump) is country specific. Give or take it's 8p a kW/hr in NZ, as the heat pump is something like 5:1 efficient we can heat reasonable sized houses for £60-£70 a month. (note daytime temperatures in NZ in winter are higher than the UK)
But - a hot water heat pump is only suitable for underfloor heating (a 12kW unit draws about 2 1/2 kW when running). They are easy to install (run from 2.5mm wiring) and only cost £1500. With a £600 conversion kit they can also provide all the hot water all year round as well - my hot water for a family of four costs £100 a year.
You wouldn't need an oil or gas tank, no deliveries - and it would happily run from a generator.
I've converted a number of houses from oil to a hot water heat pump here in NZ with much reduced running costs. However oil is a world price and electricity (to drive the heat pump) is country specific. Give or take it's 8p a kW/hr in NZ, as the heat pump is something like 5:1 efficient we can heat reasonable sized houses for £60-£70 a month. (note daytime temperatures in NZ in winter are higher than the UK)
But - a hot water heat pump is only suitable for underfloor heating (a 12kW unit draws about 2 1/2 kW when running). They are easy to install (run from 2.5mm wiring) and only cost £1500. With a £600 conversion kit they can also provide all the hot water all year round as well - my hot water for a family of four costs £100 a year.
You wouldn't need an oil or gas tank, no deliveries - and it would happily run from a generator.
satans worm said:
gtr-gaz said:
oil tanks need to be 5m away from the building and about 0.75m from any boundary.
I dont' think that is correct, you can have it as close as you want, you will just need to put in a simple fire barrier to pass sign off by offtecJust a quick word of warning: Underfloor heating will work very poorly if your house has poor insulation and/or is drafty in the slightest. I presume that the house has very thick stone walls. If so then you will get away with it if you control use high performance windows (consider triple glazing). Also I would recommend you go all out on the loft insulation. It costs little but will save you much. Kingspan is very good.
Since it is a full on refurb and you are upgrading your insulation and installing underfloor heating(and no doubt draft proofing with wet plaster and silicone etc) may I suggest that you consider a ground source heat pump augmented with a heat recovery system which removes stale warm air takes the heat off it and transfers it to incoming cold air. If you manage to make the house sufficiently airtight then this should make a significant decrease in your costs.
You may also consider using some solar panels to augment hot water (this works better than you'd think).
And before anyone says it, no I'm not an eco geek, I personally only look on such systems from a cost/benefit perspective...
Good luck
Since it is a full on refurb and you are upgrading your insulation and installing underfloor heating(and no doubt draft proofing with wet plaster and silicone etc) may I suggest that you consider a ground source heat pump augmented with a heat recovery system which removes stale warm air takes the heat off it and transfers it to incoming cold air. If you manage to make the house sufficiently airtight then this should make a significant decrease in your costs.
You may also consider using some solar panels to augment hot water (this works better than you'd think).
And before anyone says it, no I'm not an eco geek, I personally only look on such systems from a cost/benefit perspective...
Good luck
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