New front door - am I being fleeced??
Discussion
Three months ago, we moved into this large but unmodernised house in Isleworth. We've used a project manager and a variety of local tradesmen to do the modernisation work (full rewire, new central heating system, new kitchen and bathrooms, replaster and paint all rooms) and the project has gone well so far and we're now 80% complete.
One thing that we're struggling with is the front door (see picture linked below).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OYxwjWzs4WA/Sg5vjI1DU1I/...
The existing door is pretty thin and dilapidated, and we'd like to refurbish the door frame, put some stained glass in the side panels, and install a new door. The quotes we've received for this work have ranged from £4500 to £6000. This seems like a huge amount, even allowing for the usual London price uplift that seems to apply to everything. I was expecting to pay £2000-£2500.
Am I just being unrealistic, or should I just keep plugging away and try to negotiate a better price?
One thing that we're struggling with is the front door (see picture linked below).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OYxwjWzs4WA/Sg5vjI1DU1I/...
The existing door is pretty thin and dilapidated, and we'd like to refurbish the door frame, put some stained glass in the side panels, and install a new door. The quotes we've received for this work have ranged from £4500 to £6000. This seems like a huge amount, even allowing for the usual London price uplift that seems to apply to everything. I was expecting to pay £2000-£2500.
Am I just being unrealistic, or should I just keep plugging away and try to negotiate a better price?
Edited by Plymouth Prowler on Friday 18th September 15:33
You could try:
http://www.cotswood-doors.com/
in Kingston. Some years back we got an 8'x4' solid hardwood replacement door, panelled & glazed for £1k, fully kitted and fitted (took two men to lift). The frame may add a lot, but I doubt £3k more.
http://www.cotswood-doors.com/
in Kingston. Some years back we got an 8'x4' solid hardwood replacement door, panelled & glazed for £1k, fully kitted and fitted (took two men to lift). The frame may add a lot, but I doubt £3k more.
prand said:
I'm not sure about the door, As it looks ok, and you could always sort it out later. But could you not put that £5-6000 into a fund to put back the sash windows?! 
The photo flatters the door. The wood is starting to rot at the base, and it's badly warped. As for the windows, we've already replaced the old aluminium framed windows with sash double glazed units.Thanks for the other comments and suggestions - will take a look round the reclamation yards to see what is out there.
You're being right royally f
ked mate!
I'll prove my point: First the labour content. Your doorframe looks pretty sound. I'd expect to splice some new timber in at the bottom of the door jamb ( 1hr each side), maybe cut in two new cill segments,(1hr each) and maybe make good around the old door mortice lock chop-ins, again 1hr. Dress off sand whole frame, knot and prime where needed (3 hours). Apply undercoat, then gloss to finish (3 hours) Total for frame: 11 hours.
The door is a write-off. For a new door to hang, fit, chop in letterplate and locks, normally one Yale and one five lever mortice deadlock for insurance purposes and fit a weather bar: (6 hours). To stain or paint the door (4 hours). Total for door: 10 hours.
To collate all material from B&Q and hardware suppliers or timber merchants (3 hours).
Time lost, i.e. spent going away to other work while paint dries between coats, doing quote etc (because no quotes are ever free.) 4 hours.
Total hours: 28 hours.(And that's a little loaded). Standard local joiners rate around £25.00 to £30.00, say £30.
That's £840.00 exc. V.A.T labour.
Material. Door jamb section and various small sections to piece in the cills. £60.00 tops.
Door depends very much on what you spec. but for arguments sake, a good quality one's around £300.00
Door furniture, again your choice, but good fittings, including locks say £150.00
Stained glass design will be unique to you so I wont even guess at it.
Paint/stain for door and frame £65.00
Other incidentals: Delivery charges, transport, fuel and tipping the old door. £100.00
All in all you should be looking at a written quote from a local joiner for a new door, in a refurbished frame using existing glass, or clients own stained glass, painted and all waste removed from site of £1515.00 + V.A.T. I rounded up the prices, so expect to get it cheaper than this.
It's not impossible to get a breakdown of your quote from everyone you've asked to price it. A rule of thumb is 'No breakdown, No credibility.' Always get three guys to quote, the middle one's generally right.
I don't normally do this, but I get a tad annoyed by 'professional builders' who consistently try to screw over Joe Public for no legitimate reason. There are some out here, and there will be near you, who have some morals.
Hope it goes well for you.
I hate bad grammar, even if I was the culprit!
ked mate!I'll prove my point: First the labour content. Your doorframe looks pretty sound. I'd expect to splice some new timber in at the bottom of the door jamb ( 1hr each side), maybe cut in two new cill segments,(1hr each) and maybe make good around the old door mortice lock chop-ins, again 1hr. Dress off sand whole frame, knot and prime where needed (3 hours). Apply undercoat, then gloss to finish (3 hours) Total for frame: 11 hours.
The door is a write-off. For a new door to hang, fit, chop in letterplate and locks, normally one Yale and one five lever mortice deadlock for insurance purposes and fit a weather bar: (6 hours). To stain or paint the door (4 hours). Total for door: 10 hours.
To collate all material from B&Q and hardware suppliers or timber merchants (3 hours).
Time lost, i.e. spent going away to other work while paint dries between coats, doing quote etc (because no quotes are ever free.) 4 hours.
Total hours: 28 hours.(And that's a little loaded). Standard local joiners rate around £25.00 to £30.00, say £30.
That's £840.00 exc. V.A.T labour.
Material. Door jamb section and various small sections to piece in the cills. £60.00 tops.
Door depends very much on what you spec. but for arguments sake, a good quality one's around £300.00
Door furniture, again your choice, but good fittings, including locks say £150.00
Stained glass design will be unique to you so I wont even guess at it.
Paint/stain for door and frame £65.00
Other incidentals: Delivery charges, transport, fuel and tipping the old door. £100.00
All in all you should be looking at a written quote from a local joiner for a new door, in a refurbished frame using existing glass, or clients own stained glass, painted and all waste removed from site of £1515.00 + V.A.T. I rounded up the prices, so expect to get it cheaper than this.
It's not impossible to get a breakdown of your quote from everyone you've asked to price it. A rule of thumb is 'No breakdown, No credibility.' Always get three guys to quote, the middle one's generally right.
I don't normally do this, but I get a tad annoyed by 'professional builders' who consistently try to screw over Joe Public for no legitimate reason. There are some out here, and there will be near you, who have some morals.Hope it goes well for you.
Edited by DB7 pilot on Wednesday 12th August 16:00
I hate bad grammar, even if I was the culprit!
Edited by DB7 pilot on Thursday 13th August 10:20
Plymouth Prowler said:
prand said:
I'm not sure about the door, As it looks ok, and you could always sort it out later. But could you not put that £5-6000 into a fund to put back the sash windows?!
The photo flatters the door. The wood is starting to rot at the base, and it's badly warped. As for the windows, we've already replaced the old aluminium framed windows with sash double glazed units.Thanks for the other comments and suggestions - will take a look round the reclamation yards to see what is out there.
House looks great BTW
DB7 pilot said:
All in all you should be looking at a written quote from a local joiner for a new door, in a refurbished frame using existing glass, or clients own stained glass, painted and all waste removed from site of £1515.00 + V.A.T. I rounded up the prices, so expect to get it cheaper than this.
Add on four nights accomodation in a local Premier Inn (£300) plus four evening meals and beer money (£200) and persuade DB7 Pilot to come down to London and do the job for your original expectation of £2k!
Meeja said:
DB7 pilot said:
All in all you should be looking at a written quote from a local joiner for a new door, in a refurbished frame using existing glass, or clients own stained glass, painted and all waste removed from site of £1515.00 + V.A.T. I rounded up the prices, so expect to get it cheaper than this.
Add on four nights accomodation in a local Premier Inn (£300) plus four evening meals and beer money (£200) and persuade DB7 Pilot to come down to London and do the job for your original expectation of £2k!robinhood21 said:
It could be a long-shot but, might be worth phoning around reclamation yards with the dimensions. You never know!
It was definitely worth it. Willesden Salvage (www.willesdensalvage.com) sorted us out with a scruffy but correct period door which our builders can strip and paint and reglaze.Thanks to everyone for the comments. Knew I was being fleeced with the high quotes. Amazes me that there are enough dumb-but-wealthy folk in London who pay these prices.
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