Britannia refused mortgage - single skin walls

Britannia refused mortgage - single skin walls

Author
Discussion

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,566 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Hi all... looking for a little advice.

We're in the process of moving into a victorian semi and had applied for a Britannia mortgage with a 10% deposit (purchase price is £250k).

All was going ok and we even had a letter from Britannia stating that the mortgage had been approved subject to them receiving all required paperwork, which I took to be our proof of earnings, proof of deposit etc.

I called them today in response to a letter last week for some further info to be told our application has now been declined because "there is only a single skin wall in the first floor bathroom". The valuation was carried out 2 weeks ago, so I'm a little disappointed it took until now for me to find this out.

They've said that they will not provide a mortgage on such a property due to potential resale values - that suggests to me they may not value the property at the £250k purchase price.

So - where do we go from here? Is the single-skin wall the issue, or the value that has been placed on the property?

We really like the property and felt the value was good (it went on the market in March for £300k, and a similar property is currently marketed at £275k - the problem is it's a small village without much to compare it to price wise).

Will another lender have the same issues do you think (there aren't many that will do a 90%ltv mortgage as it is).

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatfully received.

Many thanks

Podie

46,645 posts

282 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Might be worth chatting to scotal

sleep envy

62,260 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
sounds like they don't want your business

my house is built entirely single skin and Abbey have never questioned its construction

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,566 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
sleep envy said:
sounds like they don't want your business

my house is built entirely single skin and Abbey have never questioned its construction
Single skin as in 4 and a half inch bricks, or single skin as in thick solid walls common to pre-war properties?

Most of the house we are attempting to buy is the latter, but it's the bathroom that is potentially the former which Britannia have an issue with.

andye30m3

3,472 posts

261 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
it's not uncommon for old single story extensions to be in single skin brickwork,

I wouldn't have thought it would effect the value.

Podie

46,645 posts

282 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Sleep envy in his single skin house, yesterday...


wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,566 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Ok, just got a little bit more info (basically a few statements from the surveyors valuation report).

The surveyor has simply said that the bathroom is single skin brick construction, which would need further investigation (presumably by way of a full survey?). Britannia have just said straight they won't mortgage the property on this basis.

So...

Am I likely to be able to get a mortgage on this property and is it just Britannia being fussy?

Should I be concerned by this construction? Britannia have advised that the issue is that it is a living area, and will be subject to damp and coldness etc. Is this necessarily true?

If I were to go ahead and buy this property, what would be required to rectify this (I assume a second skin built up on the inside of the bathroom?). What is the likely cost of this for a 10 x 9 bathroom? Are we talking a few grand? Tens of thousands?

Any further info much appreciated

onomatopoeia

3,491 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
One wall of one bedroom in my house is single skin. Northern Rock mortgaged it in 1996. Standard Life in 1999. In both cases the surveyor was aware and included it in their report. When I moved the mortgage to HRBS I never saw their surveyor and certainly didn't let them in the house, so no idea what they thought.

My LTV is fairly low though.

mk1fan

10,648 posts

232 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
The Surveyor said it has 'single skin construction'? That's appaulingly inaccurate. The Tower of London is 'single skin' as is my shed. I know which one is still going to be standing in 60-years time.

I'd be interested to see how many Victorian properties that aren't solid wall construction. Sounds like Britannia don't want your custom. I'd look elsehere for the mortgage.

If the single skin is four and a half bricks thick then I don't see any reason - structural or mechanical - to form a cavity on either side
of it.

saleen836

11,436 posts

216 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
A modern house will have a bathroom wall constructed from some 3x2 timber and a sheet of plasterboard each side, how do the buyers arrange a mortgage i wonder!

eps

6,436 posts

276 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
More info needed!

First floor (not ground floor) bathroom has single skin wall, if so how thick.

Our whole house is single skin, but back and front are double brick bonded and gable ends are brick and stone (500 thick). It's Victorian btw.

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,566 posts

278 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
eps said:
More info needed!

First floor (not ground floor) bathroom has single skin wall, if so how thick.

Our whole house is single skin, but back and front are double brick bonded and gable ends are brick and stone (500 thick). It's Victorian btw.
I'm still waiting for the surveyor to get back to me or a copy of the report to turn up, but I believe the whole house, including the kitchen, is 9" thick solid walls. The bathroom (which is over the kitchen) is supposedly 4.5" "single skin".

eps

6,436 posts

276 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Imperial!!!! wink

Should be fine FFS! 9 inches is about 250..

What age is the property?

apguy

827 posts

255 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
I'd be interested to see how many Victorian properties that aren't solid wall construction.
Now that's an interesting question as I've just sold my 1866 Victorian house with 9" solid brick walls and bought an 1892 Victorian house with cavity walls.

I queried this with my local conservation office (as I had a planning query) and was told that cavity wall construction was considered acceptable building practice from the late 1800's, but that the additional cost meant that only the more expensive (and consequently larger) houses were constructed with this method in Victorian times.

bleesh

1,112 posts

261 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
Apparently.......you can generally tell if a wall is a cavity wall or not by the way the bricks are laid.

If you can only see the sides, i.e. the long rectangle it is likely to be a cavity wall - but if you see the ends of the bricks, i.e the shorter rectangle, it is likely to be a non-cavity wall (singe skinned).

Waits for correction..... smile

TheEnd

15,370 posts

195 months

Thursday 30th July 2009
quotequote all
bleesh said:
Apparently.......you can generally tell if a wall is a cavity wall or not by the way the bricks are laid.

If you can only see the sides, i.e. the long rectangle it is likely to be a cavity wall - but if you see the ends of the bricks, i.e the shorter rectangle, it is likely to be a non-cavity wall (singe skinned).

Waits for correction..... smile
yep, if you see an end, (aka a header as opposed to a stretcher) then it crosses through to the other side and ties it in.
You'd often see these every 5th brick, and if a regular brick goes into the wall, then it won't have a cavity.

JR

12,745 posts

265 months

Friday 31st July 2009
quotequote all
TheEnd said:
bleesh said:
Apparently.......you can generally tell if a wall is a cavity wall or not by the way the bricks are laid.

If you can only see the sides, i.e. the long rectangle it is likely to be a cavity wall - but if you see the ends of the bricks, i.e the shorter rectangle, it is likely to be a non-cavity wall (singe skinned).

Waits for correction..... smile
yep, if you see an end, (aka a header as opposed to a stretcher) then it crosses through to the other side and ties it in.
You'd often see these every 5th brick, and if a regular brick goes into the wall, then it won't have a cavity.
Nope. If it's a single skin then it will look identical to a cavity wall, there just isn't another leaf behind it. For inside walls though they are usually plastered and so you can't see any bricks at all.

If you really like the house then you may be able to strengthen the wall by adding an inner stud wall.

wiggy001

Original Poster:

6,566 posts

278 months

Friday 31st July 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for all the comments so far.

Having spoken to the vendors (via the Estate Agent), they are adamant that the kitchen and bathroom are both part of the original construction, 9" solid walls, and that the bathroom is no different to the rest of the house.

I'm waiting for a call back from the surveyor/Britannia as I want to find out if the surveyor has got this wrong before I go any further.

mk1fan

10,648 posts

232 months

Friday 31st July 2009
quotequote all
apguy said:
Now that's an interesting question as I've just sold my 1866 Victorian house with 9" solid brick walls and bought an 1892 Victorian house with cavity walls.

I queried this with my local conservation office (as I had a planning query) and was told that cavity wall construction was considered acceptable building practice from the late 1800's, but that the additional cost meant that only the more expensive (and consequently larger) houses were constructed with this method in Victorian times.
Now that is cutting edge designed property!

Just to clarify a 4.5-inch thick wall is one brick thick. And should be sufficient for a one-storey bathroom. Again, it sounds like Brittania don't want your business or at best the person working on your application doesn't know what they're talking about, look elsewhere.

Busamav

2,954 posts

215 months

Friday 31st July 2009
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
Just to clarify a 4.5-inch thick wall is one brick thick.
but known as a half brick wall . pedant off wink

A one brick wall is 9" . I am guessing the OP's surveyor has found an area of the house that is only 4.5" thk