Gas boiler servicing
Discussion
Boring topic I know.
We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
he can stop you using it! no ventilation like that is dangrous! he has the right to ask you if he can turn it off and if you refuse then transco will be called and then the gas turned off at the road which mean no gas in the propperty and also a bill for about £300 to be roconected and a bill for disconnection!
it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
I had british gas 'service' my boiler . He stuck a probe in the vent to check exhaust gases. He looked a the display panel (its a computerised combi boiler) and carefully noted on his form 'no faults displayed'.
And thats it, service complete. Perhaps the word 'inspection' would be closer. Oh and I do it myself now as having carefully observed this trained technician I now am also able to look at the display panel and see it has no faults.
Oh and this boiler being a clever beastie it has a built in flue gas analyser which reports via the front panel so if he had known what he was doing he wouldnt have needed the probe.
And thats it, service complete. Perhaps the word 'inspection' would be closer. Oh and I do it myself now as having carefully observed this trained technician I now am also able to look at the display panel and see it has no faults.
Oh and this boiler being a clever beastie it has a built in flue gas analyser which reports via the front panel so if he had known what he was doing he wouldnt have needed the probe.
pitbull turbo said:
he can stop you using it! no ventilation like that is dangrous! he has the right to ask you if he can turn it off and if you refuse then transco will be called and then the gas turned off at the road which mean no gas in the propperty and also a bill for about £300 to be roconected and a bill for disconnection!
it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
Fitting a vent is easy, you can buy then for a few £ in your local DIY shop, then just cut a hole in the door (simple job) and pop the vent in. Job done.it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
Google for info on the height etc the vent needs to be at in the door.
Dan_1981 said:
Boring topic I know.
We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
What sort is it? Combi or just a plain boiler?We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
i had the boiler insurance with these guys, took out the insurance as i had a pi$$ poor potterton boiler and pannel which wasnt working properly and couldnt afford to pay £££'s to fix it so £12iirc per month was fine with me.
reported the problem, appointment booked for next day. only able to visit me during 9-5 so i had to use 1 day holiday from work. he came checked it over, couldnt fathom why it wasnt working said he needed to come back with someone.
i had to have 1 more day off for the re-visit. they came both scratched their heads and spent 1 hour testing wires. said it was a fault with control pannel/timer thing, and i need to buy it £250(so much for covering all parts and labour then) they wouldnt pay for my part as it was a common problem with the control panel that they did not cover.
part ordered, arrived, another day of for them to fit it. part fitted boiler working but not coming on on timed etc. had to come back the next day to rewire the boiler.
another day off, boiler rewired and working fine, but all in all it cost me £12 a month for a year (£144) for the privelidge of the insurance, £250 for the part, and 4 days annual leave lost beacuse they do not work out of hours. not to mention no hot water or heating for 4 days during novemeber and the diesel it cost me to go to my mums for showers etc.
so i did not renew my insurance and would rather use a local expert than these dumb arses
reported the problem, appointment booked for next day. only able to visit me during 9-5 so i had to use 1 day holiday from work. he came checked it over, couldnt fathom why it wasnt working said he needed to come back with someone.
i had to have 1 more day off for the re-visit. they came both scratched their heads and spent 1 hour testing wires. said it was a fault with control pannel/timer thing, and i need to buy it £250(so much for covering all parts and labour then) they wouldnt pay for my part as it was a common problem with the control panel that they did not cover.
part ordered, arrived, another day of for them to fit it. part fitted boiler working but not coming on on timed etc. had to come back the next day to rewire the boiler.
another day off, boiler rewired and working fine, but all in all it cost me £12 a month for a year (£144) for the privelidge of the insurance, £250 for the part, and 4 days annual leave lost beacuse they do not work out of hours. not to mention no hot water or heating for 4 days during novemeber and the diesel it cost me to go to my mums for showers etc.
so i did not renew my insurance and would rather use a local expert than these dumb arses
googilg for vents isn't that straight forward! the kw rating of the appliance needs to be checked and then the vent calulated!
as for service your own boiler your a fool! its a specialest job for a reason and if people on do a fule gas analise on the boiler then they aren't servicing it right either and then a different engineer should be sourced for futher services!
i must admit there are alot of rubbish engineers out there i am affraid but atleast most have the basic saftey covered which a normal home owner has no clue about!
as for service your own boiler your a fool! its a specialest job for a reason and if people on do a fule gas analise on the boiler then they aren't servicing it right either and then a different engineer should be sourced for futher services!
i must admit there are alot of rubbish engineers out there i am affraid but atleast most have the basic saftey covered which a normal home owner has no clue about!
pitbull turbo said:
googilg for vents isn't that straight forward! the kw rating of the appliance needs to be checked and then the vent calulated!
as for service your own boiler your a fool! its a specialest job for a reason and if people on do a fule gas analise on the boiler then they aren't servicing it right either and then a different engineer should be sourced for futher services!
i must admit there are alot of rubbish engineers out there i am affraid but atleast most have the basic saftey covered which a normal home owner has no clue about!
I would be interested to know what exactly shouldd be done for a service as I have never seen en engineer do any more than analyse the flue and look at the computer.as for service your own boiler your a fool! its a specialest job for a reason and if people on do a fule gas analise on the boiler then they aren't servicing it right either and then a different engineer should be sourced for futher services!
i must admit there are alot of rubbish engineers out there i am affraid but atleast most have the basic saftey covered which a normal home owner has no clue about!
I know my box of tricks analyses flue gas, input and output temp of hot water flow, temp and speed of heating water flow to the rads and relative efficiency of the burner (input water temp vs output water temp vs gas burned and it can calculate if everything is working as it should). If anything goes out of the expected spec/parameters then it tells me all about it and I call an engineer.
So with all this computing power monitoring everything it explains why a service is simply the engineer checking all the computer stats rather than taking things apart.
Should I expect more from a service engineer ? it would be very handy to know what he should be checking then I can make sure he does it should I decided to get a service in future
Cheers
ok but what if your box of tricks is wrong? do you know what co2 percentages you should have? do you no wat co2 to air ratio's you should have?
in a service the combustion chamber should be stripped and cleaned no matter what the co 2 readings are. the gas inlet pressures should be checked. there should be a tightness test to make sure you have no gas leaks ( very important!) the flue should be checked, then operation of the boiler. if someone does a service and doesn't even do a tightness test report them straight away!
this is on a moden boiler that uses zero gooverors or negitave pressure! if its a older boiler then more would need to be done.
british gas do hardly anything on a service and get away with it because they try and self regulate as they have bip engineers who test there own guys and that means they have less checks from gas safe but most the time there bips cover there arse and there guys have no clue at all. i know i used to work with them and even got drafted in as a back up bip engineer at one time.
ring your boiler manufacture and they should be able to recomend a engineer.
in a service the combustion chamber should be stripped and cleaned no matter what the co 2 readings are. the gas inlet pressures should be checked. there should be a tightness test to make sure you have no gas leaks ( very important!) the flue should be checked, then operation of the boiler. if someone does a service and doesn't even do a tightness test report them straight away!
this is on a moden boiler that uses zero gooverors or negitave pressure! if its a older boiler then more would need to be done.
british gas do hardly anything on a service and get away with it because they try and self regulate as they have bip engineers who test there own guys and that means they have less checks from gas safe but most the time there bips cover there arse and there guys have no clue at all. i know i used to work with them and even got drafted in as a back up bip engineer at one time.
ring your boiler manufacture and they should be able to recomend a engineer.
We have the British Gs cover and have just had our rewal through with a £10 discount for not calling them out! Which is fantastic as they installed our new boiler last year because the old one was so unreliable we saw thei engineers over 100 times in the previous 4 years!
The reality is what are you going to get for £59? How much engineer time will that buy? The engineer has to drive to your house, do the service, and write up any reports. The call centre staff have to paid as well.
As said some BG enginners are better than others. With our previous bolier we use to ask for specific engineers to come to it as we knew some were good, and others would say it was rubbish (we knew that) and that we should replace it.
One of the good enineers eventually said "why don't you replace it?" and we said "Because you want £3,500 to do it" (and we knew from getting quotes local independents wanted £2,000) so he said "Thats daft it costs us more than that to fix it every year! Hold on" Went off to call his office and came back with a deal to replace it for £1,200 which suited us!
So we are happy with BG.
The reality is what are you going to get for £59? How much engineer time will that buy? The engineer has to drive to your house, do the service, and write up any reports. The call centre staff have to paid as well.
As said some BG enginners are better than others. With our previous bolier we use to ask for specific engineers to come to it as we knew some were good, and others would say it was rubbish (we knew that) and that we should replace it.
One of the good enineers eventually said "why don't you replace it?" and we said "Because you want £3,500 to do it" (and we knew from getting quotes local independents wanted £2,000) so he said "Thats daft it costs us more than that to fix it every year! Hold on" Went off to call his office and came back with a deal to replace it for £1,200 which suited us!
So we are happy with BG.
Important facts about gas boilers and servicing.
BG do, like many gas service companies, offer a 'safety check' as an alternative to servicing. It's a check of the CO ratio and will determine whether the boiler is burning the gas completely.
A service will involve a THOROUGH clean of the heat exchanger, burner and casing which will maintain the efficiency of the boiler and in addition will highlight any small leak problems which may occur inside the boiler.
Many, many boilers DO NOT REQUIRE ventilation in the boiler cupboard. With a room-sealed flue all combustion air is drawn in from outside. However some boilers do require ventilation to avoid overheating of the gas controls.
I think that's all correct, surely there's a Gas Safe Registered Engineer about??
Ferg, Lee, Dirk???
Edited to add:
No-one will ever 'cut off the gas at the road'. National Grid will cap the gas at the meter, or possibly cut and cap the supply line to a defective appliance IF it is considered 'Immediately Dangerous' which is a legal term defined by the HSE who are the body responsible for prosecuting.....
I can't think that no vents is ID unless it is a conventionally flued boiler i.e. with a chimney or similar flue.
BG do, like many gas service companies, offer a 'safety check' as an alternative to servicing. It's a check of the CO ratio and will determine whether the boiler is burning the gas completely.
A service will involve a THOROUGH clean of the heat exchanger, burner and casing which will maintain the efficiency of the boiler and in addition will highlight any small leak problems which may occur inside the boiler.
Many, many boilers DO NOT REQUIRE ventilation in the boiler cupboard. With a room-sealed flue all combustion air is drawn in from outside. However some boilers do require ventilation to avoid overheating of the gas controls.
I think that's all correct, surely there's a Gas Safe Registered Engineer about??
Ferg, Lee, Dirk???
Edited to add:
No-one will ever 'cut off the gas at the road'. National Grid will cap the gas at the meter, or possibly cut and cap the supply line to a defective appliance IF it is considered 'Immediately Dangerous' which is a legal term defined by the HSE who are the body responsible for prosecuting.....
I can't think that no vents is ID unless it is a conventionally flued boiler i.e. with a chimney or similar flue.
Edited by Arthur Jackson on Saturday 18th July 09:56
bigdods said:
pitbull turbo said:
he can stop you using it! no ventilation like that is dangrous! he has the right to ask you if he can turn it off and if you refuse then transco will be called and then the gas turned off at the road which mean no gas in the propperty and also a bill for about £300 to be roconected and a bill for disconnection!
it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
Fitting a vent is easy, you can buy then for a few £ in your local DIY shop, then just cut a hole in the door (simple job) and pop the vent in. Job done.it isn't expensive to have air vents put in the compartment really so i would go down that route than change the boiler.
Google for info on the height etc the vent needs to be at in the door.
DO NOT take this guys advice.Dan_1981 said:
Boring topic I know.
We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
All would say if the fit out doesn't comply with current standards you might be best to stop using it if advised to do so. You cant smell CO, you cant see CO, but it KILLS................We have a gas boiler that hasn't been serviced for a "while" and brutish gas are offering them for 59 quid.
A few probs though - it's in a none ventilated cupboard which I've been led to believe isn't exactly smiled upon.
Basically can the guy who comes to service itcondemn it and stop us using it? I can't afford x thousand for a new boiler at the moment.
Cheers dan
Not worth taking a chance if you think its not all above board.
Arthur Jackson said:
Important facts about gas boilers and servicing.
BG do, like many gas service companies, offer a 'safety check' as an alternative to servicing. It's a check of the CO ratio and will determine whether the boiler is burning the gas completely.
A service will involve a THOROUGH clean of the heat exchanger, burner and casing which will maintain the efficiency of the boiler and in addition will highlight any small leak problems which may occur inside the boiler.
Many, many boilers DO NOT REQUIRE ventilation in the boiler cupboard. With a room-sealed flue all combustion air is drawn in from outside. However some boilers do require ventilation to avoid overheating of the gas controls.
I think that's all correct, surely there's a Gas Safe Registered Engineer about??
Ferg, Lee, Dirk???
Edited to add:
No-one will ever 'cut off the gas at the road'. National Grid will cap the gas at the meter, or possibly cut and cap the supply line to a defective appliance IF it is considered 'Immediately Dangerous' which is a legal term defined by the HSE who are the body responsible for prosecuting.....
I can't think that no vents is ID unless it is a conventionally flued boiler i.e. with a chimney or similar flue.
That is essentially correct.BG do, like many gas service companies, offer a 'safety check' as an alternative to servicing. It's a check of the CO ratio and will determine whether the boiler is burning the gas completely.
A service will involve a THOROUGH clean of the heat exchanger, burner and casing which will maintain the efficiency of the boiler and in addition will highlight any small leak problems which may occur inside the boiler.
Many, many boilers DO NOT REQUIRE ventilation in the boiler cupboard. With a room-sealed flue all combustion air is drawn in from outside. However some boilers do require ventilation to avoid overheating of the gas controls.
I think that's all correct, surely there's a Gas Safe Registered Engineer about??
Ferg, Lee, Dirk???
Edited to add:
No-one will ever 'cut off the gas at the road'. National Grid will cap the gas at the meter, or possibly cut and cap the supply line to a defective appliance IF it is considered 'Immediately Dangerous' which is a legal term defined by the HSE who are the body responsible for prosecuting.....
I can't think that no vents is ID unless it is a conventionally flued boiler i.e. with a chimney or similar flue.
Edited by Arthur Jackson on Saturday 18th July 09:56
The aptly named "installation an servicing instructions" for the boiler should tell you what is required in a service.
Usually older boilers require a strip down removal of burners ect, newer condensing boilers only require a strip down if the CO/CO2 ratios are out of limits. All services should include a visual inspection for faults such as leaks, burnt or frayed wiring and flue condition.
Normally I would not carry out a soundness test unless I had broken into the gas train or there was reason to suspect a gas leak,and I would not open the combustion chamber door of some condensing boilers without good reason, as the seals have to be replaced at a cost of about twenty pounds to the customer.
sorry your wrong.
you HAVE to do TIGHTNESS TEST its basic saftey, you should no this!
if the manufacture stats that the co2 parts per million is below a certain level then yes but most don't and require the cmaber to be opened as you can still have defects that a c02 test won't show.
you HAVE to do TIGHTNESS TEST its basic saftey, you should no this!
if the manufacture stats that the co2 parts per million is below a certain level then yes but most don't and require the cmaber to be opened as you can still have defects that a c02 test won't show.
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