Fitting recessed ceiling lights - calling all builders :-)
Discussion
I'm going to put these into a room that's being renovated. The room is top floor and I can access the ceiling from the loft, so I'm planning to create the hole from the room into the attic then fit the lights.
The only concern I have is that the ceiling is lathe and plaster and ageing so I''m not sure whethr it might bring a section down for each light.
SHould I get a lower plasterboard ceiling installed or is it better to create the holes in teh existing ceiling and then repair any damage caused...?
The only concern I have is that the ceiling is lathe and plaster and ageing so I''m not sure whethr it might bring a section down for each light.
SHould I get a lower plasterboard ceiling installed or is it better to create the holes in teh existing ceiling and then repair any damage caused...?
The only way to find out is to have a go.
Get a quality sharp hole saw (the right diameter for the downlighter obviously as they vary) and give it a whirl.
Nice and slow and you should be ok, worst case would be losing a bit of plaster which assuming the ceiling is relatively sound a bit of pollyfilla and a sand and you will be right as rain. Lathe and plaster is not really an issue until it is disturbed. If in doubt you could always overboard - long drywall screws into existing joists.
You will need to know the position of your joists. The fittings will need to be a minimum distance from these. Lots of regs re this now, am sure a spark will be along shortly to advise. Oh and go for the fire rated ones to maintain the fire rating of the ceiling. For bathrooms again speak to a spark re the zones (you will need sealed ones in a shower enclosure for example).
Low voltage gives a nicer (bluer/whiter) light than 240v GU10's.
Screwfix do a good range.
Get a quality sharp hole saw (the right diameter for the downlighter obviously as they vary) and give it a whirl.
Nice and slow and you should be ok, worst case would be losing a bit of plaster which assuming the ceiling is relatively sound a bit of pollyfilla and a sand and you will be right as rain. Lathe and plaster is not really an issue until it is disturbed. If in doubt you could always overboard - long drywall screws into existing joists.
You will need to know the position of your joists. The fittings will need to be a minimum distance from these. Lots of regs re this now, am sure a spark will be along shortly to advise. Oh and go for the fire rated ones to maintain the fire rating of the ceiling. For bathrooms again speak to a spark re the zones (you will need sealed ones in a shower enclosure for example).
Low voltage gives a nicer (bluer/whiter) light than 240v GU10's.
Screwfix do a good range.
Thanks guys. When I tap the plaster it does sound hollow and it moves easily if pushed. A small sectrion came down when I removed teh wallpaper from teh ceiling and looking at the bits either side, it isn't very well held onto the wood and can easily be broken off.
I'm coming around to the idea that I may need to replace the ceiling. I can get the old plaster and wood downmyself back to the joists, but is it a big job for a builder to put up new plasterboard for a room about 13ft by 10ft?
Also, just out of interest, when did plasterboard take over? 70s, 80s?
I'm coming around to the idea that I may need to replace the ceiling. I can get the old plaster and wood downmyself back to the joists, but is it a big job for a builder to put up new plasterboard for a room about 13ft by 10ft?
Also, just out of interest, when did plasterboard take over? 70s, 80s?
Generally people just screw plasterboard on top of (well underneath really) the lath and plaster. Taking it down makes a hell of a mess. 50 or 60 mm bugle head screws through the plasterboard into the joists. Assuming the joists are in decent shape (and if youre walking on them then I guess they are. Sometimes ceilings can have very flimsy beams.
If the laths are in good condition you can patch/repair quite easily, but you often find that the laths have deteriorated - split where the nail are etc. If you look at it from above and the plaster nibs are OK then it will probably be ok. but if they are broken then its had it.
If the laths are in good condition you can patch/repair quite easily, but you often find that the laths have deteriorated - split where the nail are etc. If you look at it from above and the plaster nibs are OK then it will probably be ok. but if they are broken then its had it.
Dropping a ceiling is a horrible task. If you must do it ventilate the room (open all the windows) and tape up the door.
Dust sheet or tarp on the floor (taped again) and go at it with a sledge hammer from underneath.
Wear goggles (enclosed ones not the glasses type) and invest in a hard had and a quality dust mask.
I'd only take it down if it was failing badly. I'd seriously be tempted to just overboard. Plenty of fixings (drywall screws) into the joists and you should have no issues.
Myself and my brother who works with me would expect to overboard, tape and skim a ceiling in a day.
£200 labour, £50 in bits.
Dust sheet or tarp on the floor (taped again) and go at it with a sledge hammer from underneath.
Wear goggles (enclosed ones not the glasses type) and invest in a hard had and a quality dust mask.
I'd only take it down if it was failing badly. I'd seriously be tempted to just overboard. Plenty of fixings (drywall screws) into the joists and you should have no issues.
Myself and my brother who works with me would expect to overboard, tape and skim a ceiling in a day.
£200 labour, £50 in bits.
Folks - thank s so much for all your replies - you've been so kind :-)
I'm going to take your advice folks and install a slihtly lower plasterboard ceiling to avoid having to pull down the old ones... the mess would be immense plus the skip costs and labour!
Thanks as well for the price estimate - £250 sounds good for a room, especially with the skimming
One last question please folks - A few internal walls are also lathe and plaster over a wooden frame and were put up in 1917 and haven't been replastered since. They're starting to crumble where I remove the wallpaper and scrape back. What's the best way of dealing with this? Are they likely to be repairable by a plasterer or could I plasterboard over them or is there something else clever I could do?
I'm going to take your advice folks and install a slihtly lower plasterboard ceiling to avoid having to pull down the old ones... the mess would be immense plus the skip costs and labour!
Thanks as well for the price estimate - £250 sounds good for a room, especially with the skimming
One last question please folks - A few internal walls are also lathe and plaster over a wooden frame and were put up in 1917 and haven't been replastered since. They're starting to crumble where I remove the wallpaper and scrape back. What's the best way of dealing with this? Are they likely to be repairable by a plasterer or could I plasterboard over them or is there something else clever I could do?
Plan out where the joists are and where you intend to fit the lights. Drill a 1-2mm hole at each light position and stick a piece of wire through so you can find them from above.
Get up into the loft and vacuum clean around where your lights will be. Mix and apply about 10mm thick layer of plaster to reinforce the existing plaster and lath.
Leave for 2 or 3 days to harden then cut your holes.
Check that the lights you buy have alternative positions for the mounting springs to deal with the extra thickness you have created.
Steve
Get up into the loft and vacuum clean around where your lights will be. Mix and apply about 10mm thick layer of plaster to reinforce the existing plaster and lath.
Leave for 2 or 3 days to harden then cut your holes.
Check that the lights you buy have alternative positions for the mounting springs to deal with the extra thickness you have created.
Steve
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