Rebuilding a Balcony
Discussion
My lounge is on the first floor and has french doors leading onto a balcony. I'm having the whole house re-rendered and have taken the balcony down as it too needs replacing owing to serious rust.
The balcony was approx 5.5m x 1.5m. It's basic structure is a heavy angle steel frame raw bolted to the wall on one side and supported by brick pillars 1500mm from the house wall. Into the frame were dropped 100mm x 50mm joists with kerowin(sp.) boards.
The frame itself was 100mm X 75mm angle which was 10mm thick. I want to remake it and change the shape slightly reducing the overall width by 0.5m but extending it's projection by 0.5m.
A few of questions.
Is this really the best way to construct this?
If I used steel channel in it's construction rather than steel angle, how can I calculate what section and guage of steel to use?
The span of the joists will now be 2m rather than 1.5m, do I need to increase their section?
The balcony was approx 5.5m x 1.5m. It's basic structure is a heavy angle steel frame raw bolted to the wall on one side and supported by brick pillars 1500mm from the house wall. Into the frame were dropped 100mm x 50mm joists with kerowin(sp.) boards.
The frame itself was 100mm X 75mm angle which was 10mm thick. I want to remake it and change the shape slightly reducing the overall width by 0.5m but extending it's projection by 0.5m.
A few of questions.
Is this really the best way to construct this?
If I used steel channel in it's construction rather than steel angle, how can I calculate what section and guage of steel to use?
The span of the joists will now be 2m rather than 1.5m, do I need to increase their section?
can't see the advantage of using channel over angle if it's specified right - you'll just be paying more for something you don't need
if you do increase the depth you may need to consider the balustrade fixing detail - the supporting columns will more likely than not need bringing forward to support any steel in order to keep that connection as simple as possible
one other thing, if you do decide to cantilever it bear in mind the weight/material of your balustrade
I'd def get a structural engineer to do some calcs
if you do increase the depth you may need to consider the balustrade fixing detail - the supporting columns will more likely than not need bringing forward to support any steel in order to keep that connection as simple as possible
one other thing, if you do decide to cantilever it bear in mind the weight/material of your balustrade
I'd def get a structural engineer to do some calcs
Good point actually by SE.
A structural engineer may well cost a few quid but in the long run can actually save you some cash too. They will design steels to suit and not over engineer the job as it is often tempting to do.
As an aside I'm assuming you have considered planning/building control issues. Your BCO will I'm sure insist on a proper drawing and set of calcs.
A structural engineer may well cost a few quid but in the long run can actually save you some cash too. They will design steels to suit and not over engineer the job as it is often tempting to do.
As an aside I'm assuming you have considered planning/building control issues. Your BCO will I'm sure insist on a proper drawing and set of calcs.
As you can see from the photos, the brick pillars presently support the front side of the frame. By reducing the width of the frame, my intention was to support the two short ends of the frame and increase their length so that they overhang the brick pillars by about 400mm.
I'll try and post a drawing to explain it better.
I've been looking at this to finish the job off nicely, but would welcome any cheaper suggestions.
I'll try and post a drawing to explain it better.
I've been looking at this to finish the job off nicely, but would welcome any cheaper suggestions.
sparkythecat said:
I'll try and post a drawing to explain it better.
I understand what you mean but you will still need structure to mount the balustarde to which will be cantilevering off the brick piersadd to that structural glass and you may find that you will need huge steels, more piers and more pads to construct the piers
sleep envy said:
sparkythecat said:
I'll try and post a drawing to explain it better.
I understand what you mean but you will still need structure to mount the balustarde to which will be cantilevering off the brick piersadd to that structural glass and you may find that you will need huge steels , more piers and more pads to construct the piers
In the unlikely event that I then host a party on there for the local rugby team at 100kg each, we're still only talking of a total load of 2.5tonnes - hardly huge
sleep envy said:
I think you're missing my point - how are you going to fix the glass to the structure?
Have a look at this installation video. It explains things better than I could.Have you got a price for the frameless glass yet? Bet it makes you cry.
Cheaper option would be stainless uprights with glass clamps holding 1 metre wide bits of glass.
I had three juliet balconies made about 2-3 years ago, just mild steel 1" box frames welded up and powdercoated, 2.2m wide by 1.3 high, each with one piece of glass half-width (1.2x1.1?), total for the three was about £7-800 I think.
Or you could go with stainless wire cables - no Mr Muscle glass cleaner required
Cheaper option would be stainless uprights with glass clamps holding 1 metre wide bits of glass.
I had three juliet balconies made about 2-3 years ago, just mild steel 1" box frames welded up and powdercoated, 2.2m wide by 1.3 high, each with one piece of glass half-width (1.2x1.1?), total for the three was about £7-800 I think.
Or you could go with stainless wire cables - no Mr Muscle glass cleaner required
andy43 said:
Have you got a price for the frameless glass yet? Bet it makes you cry.
Cheaper option would be stainless uprights with glass clamps holding 1 metre wide bits of glass.
I had three juliet balconies made about 2-3 years ago, just mild steel 1" box frames welded up and powdercoated, 2.2m wide by 1.3 high, each with one piece of glass half-width (1.2x1.1?), total for the three was about £7-800 I think.
Or you could go with stainless wire cables - no Mr Muscle glass cleaner required
The frameless glass system will come in around £2.5 to £3k.Cheaper option would be stainless uprights with glass clamps holding 1 metre wide bits of glass.
I had three juliet balconies made about 2-3 years ago, just mild steel 1" box frames welded up and powdercoated, 2.2m wide by 1.3 high, each with one piece of glass half-width (1.2x1.1?), total for the three was about £7-800 I think.
Or you could go with stainless wire cables - no Mr Muscle glass cleaner required
The balcony is a big asset to the house and the views both from it and through the french doors are terrific. Although I'm not presently planning on selling up, I do need to plan with a long head, so want to maximise it's potential
This, with out doubt, is a question for a structural engineer.
The loads to the house wall can be a hell of a lot, especially if the balcony is cantilevered a bit.
The frame less glass will need to support a 6kn side load. A S/E will be able to tell you the smallest size of steel allowed for this, which will make the whole thing look that much better.
The loads to the house wall can be a hell of a lot, especially if the balcony is cantilevered a bit.
The frame less glass will need to support a 6kn side load. A S/E will be able to tell you the smallest size of steel allowed for this, which will make the whole thing look that much better.
If you're maximising views, how about taking the existing french pair and side lights out, knock the dwarf wall sections down, and put in a big 2 panel sliding patio door.
If that's not an option, currently you'd get away with one single section of glass ballustrade maybe 1.5m wide to allow uninterrupted views. Could then have at each side a corner post then another post maybe 1m from the corner, that then supporting the main middle sheet of glass seemingly invisibly when viewed from inside the house.
/Sarah Beeney
If that's not an option, currently you'd get away with one single section of glass ballustrade maybe 1.5m wide to allow uninterrupted views. Could then have at each side a corner post then another post maybe 1m from the corner, that then supporting the main middle sheet of glass seemingly invisibly when viewed from inside the house.
/Sarah Beeney
The brick pillars are built around a length of 100mm x 50mm steel box section with a 200mm plate welded over the end, through which the balcony steel is bolted. Althogh I can't be sure without drilling a hoil;e at the base of the pillar, I suspect that stell drops the full height of the pillar and rests on the pad on which the piullar was built.
So the proposed construction would be like this.
The overall lenght of the stel member shown woud be 2000mm
IMG.
So the proposed construction would be like this.
The overall lenght of the stel member shown woud be 2000mm
IMG. Edited by sparkythecat on Wednesday 15th July 23:09
sparkythecat said:
IMG. 
I'm sure it will be sufficient.The answer is simple. Find a structural engineer to design it for you.
The resulting structure will be safe, comply with all regulations, enable you to sell your house in the future without problem and enable you to use the most cost effective materials and construction methods.
A few hundred quid well spent in my opinion.
If you are after Structural Calcs PM me.
We would need to measure the property in question, or at least the relevant part of it.
You will need to consider the spans and the loads you want to support. Of course there is the load from the materials used and also the load of people or persons and furniture whilst on the balcony.
If you started to rebuild this your local Building Control Officer would be very interested to see the design you propose.. Ideally you should look to get their approval before commencing work. The reasons are (at least) twofold.. (1) safety, (2) resale of the property at a later date.
We would need to measure the property in question, or at least the relevant part of it.
You will need to consider the spans and the loads you want to support. Of course there is the load from the materials used and also the load of people or persons and furniture whilst on the balcony.
If you started to rebuild this your local Building Control Officer would be very interested to see the design you propose.. Ideally you should look to get their approval before commencing work. The reasons are (at least) twofold.. (1) safety, (2) resale of the property at a later date.
svm said:
sparkythecat said:
Back of a fag packet drawing
Er, are you serious? This project has bad news/hilarious out comings (if no one dies) written all over it!
Speak to a structural engineer.
The drawing was merely to illustrate a point. I had a few minutes to spare and had hoped by posting about this on here I might have elicited something informative .
I think you could take the numerous posts of "speak to a structural engineer" as information elicited.
As you say, if you rebuild it to the same spec, it will probably last. That's not to say that it will be 100% safe or as nice looking as it could be.
Your talking about spending £000's on this, yet are trying to cut out a few hundred quid on a report. It doesn't make sense.
As you say, if you rebuild it to the same spec, it will probably last. That's not to say that it will be 100% safe or as nice looking as it could be.
Your talking about spending £000's on this, yet are trying to cut out a few hundred quid on a report. It doesn't make sense.
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