Discussion
Battenburg Bob said:
Can anyone recommend an 'off the shelf' nuclear weedkiller, that exterminates absolutely everything. I've got grass/weeds growing through my fence and nothing so far seems to kill them.
ROUNDUP will kill them all,gets into the route system, you can buy it at any garden centre. We use it on the Farm so it is one of the best, mind you the garden centre prices are about 100% more expensive!Battenburg Bob said:
Can anyone recommend an 'off the shelf' nuclear weedkiller, that exterminates absolutely everything. I've got grass/weeds growing through my fence and nothing so far seems to kill them.
I think all the stuff that works has been banned by the EU in cahoots with the chemical companies.My Lawn weeds seem to thrive on whatever the manufacturers now put in the mixes whilst the grass feed seem less effective than it was at allowing the grass to fight back.
You could try fuel oils. Someone spilled some fuel for a powered gardening device on the grass in front of my hoise and absolutely nothing has grown there since. Even now after I excavated the area and filled with lawn growth sand/fresh earth last year the grass seeds are struggling.
Battenburg Bob said:
Don't want anything to grow afterwards. I thought of old engine oil, but that seemed a bit too extreme. I don't want to harm any wildlife.
Hmm.Having witnessed a Magpie slaughtering a Sparrow last week and yesterday a Crow on my roof attempting to consume something feathered whilst being dive bombed by starlings I suspect wildlife is more than capable of harming itself ...
If it's related to fences you might find one of the cheaper fence treatments will do the job. Creosote used to work quite well but I think that has been banned too ...
Roundup is non-residual so perfect if you want to grow plants there afterwards; not so perfect if you want it to stay weed-free for a few months.
Mix and apply as instructed; apply on a calm sunny day with no threat of rain. 'Children and pets need not be excluded from treated areas once the spray is dry', yada yada. All common sense really.
LongQ said:
I think all the stuff that works has been banned by the EU in cahoots with the chemical companies.
Having worked for an agrochemicals company I can tell you it's a real PITA when it takes 10 years to bring a new product to market, but that the Government can ban it overnight. Hardly a level playing field, and one reason why I left.LongQ said:
My Lawn weeds seem to thrive on whatever the manufacturers now put in the mixes whilst the grass feed seem less effective than it was at allowing the grass to fight back.
Wonder if you're putting it on too diluted? Lawn weedkillers are based on phenoxyacetics whch mimic plant growth substances!LongQ said:
You could try fuel oils. Someone spilled some fuel for a powered gardening device on the grass in front of my hoise and absolutely nothing has grown there since.
Ah, but anything you use as a pesticide which has not been approved for that use is illegal. (Although unless you're a contractor, if no-one finds out...) Oh heck, chuck it on, I'm not looking Battenburg Bob said:
Don't want anything to grow afterwards. I thought of old engine oil, but that seemed a bit too extreme. I don't want to harm any wildlife.
As far as garden products go, then sodium chorate, if it's still allowed, will do the job, as will 'total residual' weedkillers like Pathclear (TM) - usually called 'Path and Drive' weedkillers. The actives used to be vary between simazine, atrazine and aminotriazole but they're probably all banned now Mix and apply as instructed; apply on a calm sunny day with no threat of rain. 'Children and pets need not be excluded from treated areas once the spray is dry', yada yada. All common sense really.
Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 18th May 10:54
Simpo Two said:
Roundup is non-residual so perfect if you want to grow plants there afterwards; not so perfect if you want it to stay weed-free for a few months.
Indeed, I think that's why they seem to have done a deal. EU says everything must be tested. Old successful long estabished (an cheap) chemicals had not been tested. Cheap = low profit and no patent therefore no incentive to test at cost of tens of thousands. New products = have to test anyway now, patents and higher costs so testing costs (on humans, who cares if it works on the weeds when it's only garden stuff) are recoverable and overall costs are justifiable. Result! Also if pushes a lot of smaller chemical companies out of the market and makes far eastern competition more difficult.LongQ said:
I think all the stuff that works has been banned by the EU in cahoots with the chemical companies.
Having worked for an agrochemicals company I can tell you it's a real PITA when it takes 10 years to bring a new product to market, but that the Government can ban it overnight. Hardly a level playing field, and one reason why I left.Simpo Two said:
LongQ said:
My Lawn weeds seem to thrive on whatever the manufacturers now put in the mixes whilst the grass feed seem less effective than it was at allowing the grass to fight back.
Wonder if you're putting it on too diluted? Lawn weedkillers are based on phenoxyacetics whch mimic plant growth substances!Path stuff works OK. So far.
Simpo Two said:
LongQ said:
You could try fuel oils. Someone spilled some fuel for a powered gardening device on the grass in front of my hoise and absolutely nothing has grown there since.
Ah, but anything you use as a pesticide which has not been approved for that use is illegal. (Although unless you're a contractor, if no-one finds out...) Oh heck, chuck it on, I'm not looking Seems to work for MP's expenses ...
LongQ said:
Indeed, I think that's why they seem to have done a deal. EU says everything must be tested. Old successful long estabished (an cheap) chemicals had not been tested. Cheap = low profit and no patent therefore no incentive to test at cost of tens of thousands. New products = have to test anyway now, patents and higher costs so testing costs (on humans, who cares if it works on the weeds when it's only garden stuff) are recoverable and overall costs are justifiable. Result! Also if pushes a lot of smaller chemical companies out of the market and makes far eastern competition more difficult.
Good conspiracy theory but back in the 80s the EU wasn't so powerful. It was more a case of 'scares', eg ioxynil and 2,4,5-T, that made the Govt ban things. The products were tested to the current toxicology standards anyway, inc little bunnies. In fact I wonder how you're supposed to test things for safety if it's unfashionable to test them on animals?Testing was just a tedious, expensive and boring PITA (BTW my bit was testing on the targets, not the bunnies!)
LongQ said:
Good question. But any more granules and it burns the grass ... so difficult to tell.
Ah, granules. You may have to water them in if it doesn't rain for a while - see what the small print says. Applying in the middle of a hot spell is also bad as the grass can be under water-stress.(apologies to OP for wandering)
Simpo Two said:
LongQ said:
Indeed, I think that's why they seem to have done a deal. EU says everything must be tested. Old successful long estabished (an cheap) chemicals had not been tested. Cheap = low profit and no patent therefore no incentive to test at cost of tens of thousands. New products = have to test anyway now, patents and higher costs so testing costs (on humans, who cares if it works on the weeds when it's only garden stuff) are recoverable and overall costs are justifiable. Result! Also if pushes a lot of smaller chemical companies out of the market and makes far eastern competition more difficult.
Good conspiracy theory but back in the 80s the EU wasn't so powerful. It was more a case of 'scares', eg ioxynil and 2,4,5-T, that made the Govt ban things. The products were tested to the current toxicology standards anyway, inc little bunnies. In fact I wonder how you're supposed to test things for safety if it's unfashionable to test them on animals?Testing was just a tedious, expensive and boring PITA (BTW my bit was testing on the targets, not the bunnies!)
Simpo Two said:
LongQ said:
Good question. But any more granules and it burns the grass ... so difficult to tell.
Ah, granules. You may have to water them in if it doesn't rain for a while - see what the small print says. Applying in the middle of a hot spell is also bad as the grass can be under water-stress.(apologies to OP for wandering)
Bigger problem was trying to find a dryish day to put the stuff down.
There seemed to be a sudden change just about the time the other chemicals were taken out of the mix. Prices also went up. Prices are now lower (or were last year) so I assume there has been a reduction in something effective somewhere along the line.
LongQ said:
There seemed to be a sudden change just about the time the other chemicals were taken out of the mix. Prices also went up. Prices are now lower (or were last year) so I assume there has been a reduction in something effective somewhere along the line.
From my experience marketeers in the garden industry are possibly the worst kind, overimportant with ideas way beyond their abilities or budgets. Or was that just my boss?! IIRC inflation was about 4%, so they had some very shiny packaging designed at vast expense and then whooped at putting the prices up by 9%. 'Added value'; ie money for nothing. As for the new products, they were launched whether they worked or not. We even launched weedkiller granules that didn't fit through the holes in the 'handy shaker pack'... to busy marketing to check 
Bob,
Not really a garden use product, but something like Chikara would fit the bill:
http://www.farmersguardian.com/story.asp?sectionco...
It has 'drives' and 'paths' on the approval list as well as 'walls' (though not fences!). You would need to kill off the weeds with glyphosate or similar beforehand, then use this.
Chris
Not really a garden use product, but something like Chikara would fit the bill:
http://www.farmersguardian.com/story.asp?sectionco...
It has 'drives' and 'paths' on the approval list as well as 'walls' (though not fences!). You would need to kill off the weeds with glyphosate or similar beforehand, then use this.
Chris
Edited by Isoproturon1 on Monday 18th May 20:21
As for the EU, the current proposals to ban some pesticides will have severe implications if it goes ahead, and this is definitely NOT supported by the agchem manufacturers.
It's no real surprise some of the off-patent stuff is falling by the wayside when the cost to get it through re-registration is so high and there is no commercial case for doing so. There are hundreds of generic actives and therefore products on the market, so I think the implication that the large agchem companies are getting their own way is misleading.
It's no real surprise some of the off-patent stuff is falling by the wayside when the cost to get it through re-registration is so high and there is no commercial case for doing so. There are hundreds of generic actives and therefore products on the market, so I think the implication that the large agchem companies are getting their own way is misleading.
Isoproturon - appropriate name!
Isoproturon1 said:
Not really a garden use product, but something like Chikara would fit the bill... It has 'drives' and 'paths' on the approval list as well as 'walls' (though not fences!). You would need to kill off the weeds with glyphosate or similar beforehand, then use this.
It looks like a professional/environmental/amenity product to me, therefore how is the OP supposed to get hold of it?Simpo Two said:
Isoproturon - appropriate name!
The clue was in "not really a garden use product". If he needs it so badly, there must be someone who can legally source and apply it for him.Isoproturon1 said:
Not really a garden use product, but something like Chikara would fit the bill... It has 'drives' and 'paths' on the approval list as well as 'walls' (though not fences!). You would need to kill off the weeds with glyphosate or similar beforehand, then use this.
It looks like a professional/environmental/amenity product to me, therefore how is the OP supposed to get hold of it?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff