Pre made staircase... steep loft one
Discussion
Morning guys im down on the south coast and looking for one of these for our loft which is currently being converted to become a hobby room. I dont want one of those alternate step ones or a drop down ladder but a proper staircase Its got to fit in a small space ie steep with shallow treads and high risers to gain max rise with a small space. Anyone btdt or had experince with a good company?
Edited by Al Wyn on Thursday 14th May 10:20
Al Wyn said:
Thanks ive had a look but most seem to be those alternate tread ones...if you can pm me any links id appreciate it 
Just had a loft converted and a staircase built off site to fit a tight space (it has to make a turn at the top.I'll find out the name of the company that made it from my builder. I think he said it came from Wales.
Thanks edo, space is the issue here...i dont want to write off a bedroom to fit a fullsize staircase when its definately do-able to have a steeper and narrower one... yes it will be steeper than your average modern houses but its probably only as steep as your average victorian terraces stairs.
The building regulations allow alternating tread 'space saver' stairs or fixed ladders in loft conversions, provided:
In theory, you don't have to conform to the Approved Documents; you can use alternative solutions, but the onus is on you to prove that they are acceptable. So in theory if you can convince your Building Control Officer that a steeper 'conventional' stair is no more dangerous than an alternating tread stair, it might be acceptable, but in practice I can't think of many B.C.O.'s who'd be willing to even consider this approach - they'll want youto adhere to the Approved Documents.
You can download the Approved Documents free of charge from the Government's website here if you want to check for yourself. It's Approved Document K you're interested in.
- there is no room to install a 'proper' stair
- it serves only one 'habitable' room (if you use an alternating tread stair, you are allowed a bathroom as well as the habitable room, but not with a fixed ladder).
In theory, you don't have to conform to the Approved Documents; you can use alternative solutions, but the onus is on you to prove that they are acceptable. So in theory if you can convince your Building Control Officer that a steeper 'conventional' stair is no more dangerous than an alternating tread stair, it might be acceptable, but in practice I can't think of many B.C.O.'s who'd be willing to even consider this approach - they'll want youto adhere to the Approved Documents.
You can download the Approved Documents free of charge from the Government's website here if you want to check for yourself. It's Approved Document K you're interested in.
Sam_68 said:
Stuff
Strewth! I don't doubt you for a second Sam, but are you saying that the local council bottom-inspectors get their oar in about what sort of staircase you can and can't install if you want to put a new one in?
What's the sanction if you just fit whatever sort of staircase you sodding well want to? How will they know? What will they do? (What effing business is it of theirs?)
Oli.
zcacogp said:
...are you saying that the local council bottom-inspectors get their oar in about what sort of staircase you can and can't install if you want to put a new one in?
Not if you are just replacing an existing stair case like-for-like, but if you are installing a new staircase to serve a newly created living space, as in a loft conversion, then yes, it's covered by Building Regulations.What happens if you just fit what you like?
If a nosey neighbour grasses you up when they spot the dormer/velux windows to your new loft conversion, then the Local Authority can take action that would range from a retrospective Building Regulations application (hopefully resulting in Certificate of Regularisation), through to (ultimately) having the right to right to access your property, demolish/remove the offending work and send you a bill for the cost (though things very seldom get that far).
More importantly, it would cause you a whole lot of grief when you come to sell the house (especially now that HIPs are in place and you can be held liable for any false statements), as the purchaser's solicitor will want to see the Building Regulations Approval for the work.
Edited by Sam_68 on Thursday 14th May 13:03
It will be used as a hobby room...just need a proper (but steep) set of stairs, boarded out and carpeted with a couple of big velux windows and powerpoints...re hips etc we wont worry as we arent looking to move. We have, in the past when house hunting, looked at many a house with a bedroom or two created in a smaller loft space than we will have...it just cant be advertised as extra rooms because it wouldnt pass regs due to ceiling height etc. Thanks for all the replies...still need a good source for this type of stairs and if anyone has used someone they can rec please do so 
Al Wyn said:
It will be used as a hobby room...just need a proper (but steep) set of stairs, boarded out and carpeted with a couple of big velux windows and powerpoints...
As far as Building control are concerned, that makes it a 'habitable room'.You can get away with just boarding out a loft and claim that it's storage, without triggering any of the other Building Regulations requirements, but windows will definitely make it habitable accommodation under the regs.
Whatever... even if you didn't have windows and power points, if you install a staircase, the design of that staircase will need to comply to current regulations.
FWWIW, any staircase manufacturer who knows what they're doing will decline to manufacture a non-compliant staircase unless it's a like-for-like replacement of existing, as it exposes them to legal claims if there is ever an accident related to that stair.
Oh, and just to complicate matters further, the structural opening in the ceiling for the stair well falls within the scope of Part A of the Building Regulations so, for example, if you did the work without approval and the roof collapsed in a gale, a sharp enough Claims Adjuster would probably tell you that your house insurance is invalid.
Al Wyn said:
...it just cant be advertised as extra rooms because it wouldn't pass regs due to ceiling height etc.
Ironically, there is no requirement in the Building Regulations for a minimum ceiling height except that you need a minimum head clearance of 2 metres above the pitch line of the stairs. Once you're away from the landing at the top of the stairs, you can make people crawl around on their hands and knees with a ceiling height of 3'6" and it'll still comply with Building Regulations as a habitable room.It is, of course, your call whether you think you can get away with an illegal conversion, and whether that exposes you to financial risk if you are ever forced to sell - you may not plan to do so now, but circumstances can change.
Al Wyn said:
Blimey i hope sf have good lawyers...surely they cant be readily available from such a well know outlet if it is illegal to supply?
I think people think you are doing a loft con, when all you want is a space saving staircase to gain access to your "loft" that may have a floor, walls, carpet, paint etc etc???Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff