Solar Panels for Hot Water
Discussion
Has anybody here had this installed?
We live in a listed building but have agreement in principle to install solar panels on part of the roof.
The quote I have is for £5000 less £1400 in grants. BUT does anybody have any real idea how long it takes to cover the outlay. I have been quoted everything from 3 to 30 years !!!!
We live in a listed building but have agreement in principle to install solar panels on part of the roof.
The quote I have is for £5000 less £1400 in grants. BUT does anybody have any real idea how long it takes to cover the outlay. I have been quoted everything from 3 to 30 years !!!!
Slightly off topic but, I have had a company contact me saying that due to grants available solar panels wouldnt cost as much as I think....once their salesman calls you get the old Double Glazing tricks like,
1. Special offer if you sign up today (price drops 25%)
2. Phones manager and then gets more discount (prices drops 10%)
3. If I have their sign outside for 4 months prices drops £10%
When I dared say I would think about it the guy got a bit shirty and pushy but left eventually once I told him to feck off....
Ferg said:
Whatever you do don't consider any real chance of payback.
Instead, hope that when you come to sell the house it will have a big selling point in the form of the low energy costs.
What Ferg said.Instead, hope that when you come to sell the house it will have a big selling point in the form of the low energy costs.
Also go for a R.E.A listed supplier:
http://www.realassurance.org.uk/search
sleep envy said:
we installed sun panels to heat hot water for an office block last year
current life cycle cost for payback is currently stood at just under 27 years
That's quite frightening as the CIBSE (Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers) reccomended life cycle for the plant will be less than that.current life cycle cost for payback is currently stood at just under 27 years
you can thank BREEAM for that, client wanted to meet the excellent standard for the new 2008 regs
loads of sustainability went into the building (earth tubes, brown roof, lots of exposed mass for passive cooling , etc, etc) which whilst interesting and a nice technical challenge will be a waste of time/money as I'm not too sure they will see the payback seeing as they will lease the building out after 15 years
loads of sustainability went into the building (earth tubes, brown roof, lots of exposed mass for passive cooling , etc, etc) which whilst interesting and a nice technical challenge will be a waste of time/money as I'm not too sure they will see the payback seeing as they will lease the building out after 15 years
Edited by sleep envy on Wednesday 13th May 11:05
VXED said:
We sat in on a seminar on this last week, and were told that it could take anything up to 220 years to recoup the cost and start saving money!!!
Obviously this would be an extreme case but still... 220years
It's not so bad if you don't intend to move house again.Obviously this would be an extreme case but still... 220years
And have discovered the elixir of life.
I don't get this. Taking the OP's example, the net cost to him of installation after grants is £3600. If the payback period is 30 years, then on a simple straight line basis it will cost him £120 per year. If the average household spends say 25% of it's energy costs on water heating, and solar panels provide say 60-70% of water heating, then surely the savings on other forms of fuel and a reduction in wear and tear on the traditional heating installation shorten the payback period considerably?
I guess the trick here is to keep the costs down:
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6...
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6...
What panel area are you getting for your £5K?
Go for a 'professional' install and you can end up meeting all of the people who used to sell double glazing a few years back. All the grants system has done has put up the costs of an acredited install by approximately the value of the grant.
If you do have a solar install, it's important it's correctly sized and sited - no good heating water you won't use, especially if you're paying nearly a grand a panel. (If you are paying that much, take a look at Navitron's prices). You should also consider the rest of your heating system. Many people are moving towards thermal stores, which allow solar heat to be retained over a couple of days, so you average the load out and get the most out of panels.
Payback times will depend a lot on how you currently heat your hot water. Electricity is much, much more expensive than LPG or oil, both of which are more expensive than mains gas. Wood is by far the cheapest especially if you have a cheap local source, or ideally a copse. Work out how much you're currently paying to get hot water and you can get an idea of how much you might be able to save. If you can't do that, then you're just taking a stab in the dark.
In terms of payback, insulation gives the best return by a mile. Better not to loose the heat in the first place rather than using complex technical means to generate it.
Go for a 'professional' install and you can end up meeting all of the people who used to sell double glazing a few years back. All the grants system has done has put up the costs of an acredited install by approximately the value of the grant.
If you do have a solar install, it's important it's correctly sized and sited - no good heating water you won't use, especially if you're paying nearly a grand a panel. (If you are paying that much, take a look at Navitron's prices). You should also consider the rest of your heating system. Many people are moving towards thermal stores, which allow solar heat to be retained over a couple of days, so you average the load out and get the most out of panels.
Payback times will depend a lot on how you currently heat your hot water. Electricity is much, much more expensive than LPG or oil, both of which are more expensive than mains gas. Wood is by far the cheapest especially if you have a cheap local source, or ideally a copse. Work out how much you're currently paying to get hot water and you can get an idea of how much you might be able to save. If you can't do that, then you're just taking a stab in the dark.
In terms of payback, insulation gives the best return by a mile. Better not to loose the heat in the first place rather than using complex technical means to generate it.
What he said.
If you can't DIY, don't use a grant approved company - they have to pay so much in fees to be registered, it can work out more expensive even with the grant.
The double glazing sharks have indeed found a new feeding ground.
Personally, if the company has hard core salesmen, I wouldn't touch 'em.
Navitron is a very good place to start - they have installers on there too, who, if they spend their evenings typing about their day job, must be fairly enthusiastic about solar.
Green building forum is useful - even has fashion tips for sandals and kaftans
Maybe.
If you can DIY, you can get evac tube panels for a grand, you'll need a pump station and a controller and some plumbing bits, £1500 all in, tops. New hot water cylinder as well.
Or scour ebay.. so far I have a 3 sqr meter flat panel from a milk farm - £75, pump station £60, controller £75.
It'll work when I get round to plumbing it in - won't be the last word in efficiency, but the payback time won't be 25 years.
So it can be done cheap - £5000 is A Bit Steep. Unless the electorate is paying I suppose.
If you can't DIY, don't use a grant approved company - they have to pay so much in fees to be registered, it can work out more expensive even with the grant.
The double glazing sharks have indeed found a new feeding ground.
Personally, if the company has hard core salesmen, I wouldn't touch 'em.
Navitron is a very good place to start - they have installers on there too, who, if they spend their evenings typing about their day job, must be fairly enthusiastic about solar.
Green building forum is useful - even has fashion tips for sandals and kaftans
Maybe.If you can DIY, you can get evac tube panels for a grand, you'll need a pump station and a controller and some plumbing bits, £1500 all in, tops. New hot water cylinder as well.
Or scour ebay.. so far I have a 3 sqr meter flat panel from a milk farm - £75, pump station £60, controller £75.
It'll work when I get round to plumbing it in - won't be the last word in efficiency, but the payback time won't be 25 years.
So it can be done cheap - £5000 is A Bit Steep. Unless the electorate is paying I suppose.
OK, some of these payback times seem very long, but I expect that it depends on your power source. If you live in the styx (check) and rely on oil (check) and have a large south facing roof (check), then solar heating can be very beneficial with a much shorter payback.
We installed solar hot water and a second large clearview woodburner with back boiler (to supply additional hot water and central heating) last August (when the oil price was high), our projected payback then (including buying in wood) was around 5.5 years, with the current oil price it is around 8 years, much more managable. I looked at the payback times of our entire off-oil project, and since I didn't want to be lighting a woodburner in mid summer, solar heating had to pay a part. The woodburner costs, with installation was just over £3K, the solar £3.8K. At July 2008 Oil Prices I would pay approx £3K per year for oil for our house, large 1840 farmhouse. I reckon that over time oil can only go up, so now that it is done we are onto a winner (though you do burn a large amount of wood (seasoned) to supply heating and hot water in the dark days of winter!)
For us solar hot water heating, combined with the woodburner can provide 100% of out hot water requirements, and even on sunny winter days I can get a (large) hot water tank up to 70deg C just from solar! I'm in Mid Wales as well, not on the sunny south coast, but I do have an uninterrupted south facing roof so can make the most of catching the sun (even in the winter when the sun doesn't get as high)
Now I installed twice the size of array that most installations have. I have 2 arrays each of 20 58mm evac tubes each covering just over 4 sqm. The arrays came from www.eco-nomical.co.uk These are connected through the controller/pump (inc dump radiator for really hot days) to a 250litre tank. This tank has approx 3 days capacity for our hot water requirements. The total solar installation was around £3.8K (inc 4 man days labour and a new 250litre hot water tank). It works very efficiently and since mid march we have not had to boost the hot water using either the wood burner of our oil fired range, and based on last years experience I would expect this to be the case until around mid-October. The solar installation was done by www.jwsolarsolutions.co.uk
If I get excessive hot water in the summer, and want to store more, I have the option of adding a further 250litre tank and pumping between them. My solar controller already has enough bandwidth to do this.
davidy
We installed solar hot water and a second large clearview woodburner with back boiler (to supply additional hot water and central heating) last August (when the oil price was high), our projected payback then (including buying in wood) was around 5.5 years, with the current oil price it is around 8 years, much more managable. I looked at the payback times of our entire off-oil project, and since I didn't want to be lighting a woodburner in mid summer, solar heating had to pay a part. The woodburner costs, with installation was just over £3K, the solar £3.8K. At July 2008 Oil Prices I would pay approx £3K per year for oil for our house, large 1840 farmhouse. I reckon that over time oil can only go up, so now that it is done we are onto a winner (though you do burn a large amount of wood (seasoned) to supply heating and hot water in the dark days of winter!)
For us solar hot water heating, combined with the woodburner can provide 100% of out hot water requirements, and even on sunny winter days I can get a (large) hot water tank up to 70deg C just from solar! I'm in Mid Wales as well, not on the sunny south coast, but I do have an uninterrupted south facing roof so can make the most of catching the sun (even in the winter when the sun doesn't get as high)
Now I installed twice the size of array that most installations have. I have 2 arrays each of 20 58mm evac tubes each covering just over 4 sqm. The arrays came from www.eco-nomical.co.uk These are connected through the controller/pump (inc dump radiator for really hot days) to a 250litre tank. This tank has approx 3 days capacity for our hot water requirements. The total solar installation was around £3.8K (inc 4 man days labour and a new 250litre hot water tank). It works very efficiently and since mid march we have not had to boost the hot water using either the wood burner of our oil fired range, and based on last years experience I would expect this to be the case until around mid-October. The solar installation was done by www.jwsolarsolutions.co.uk
If I get excessive hot water in the summer, and want to store more, I have the option of adding a further 250litre tank and pumping between them. My solar controller already has enough bandwidth to do this.
davidy
Edited by DavidY on Thursday 14th May 07:22
Erijaso said:
I looked at this, but now thinking of going solar panels for electricity.
Has anyone done this and is this better then for hot water in pay back terms?
G
Solar electricity panels are only any good if you live somewhere that cannot get mains electricity. Then they save on cabling costs.Has anyone done this and is this better then for hot water in pay back terms?
G
If you look at some remote crofts in the Highlands and elsewhere they're kitted out with a windmill, solar panels and a diesel generator.
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