Is this (building work) quote realistic?
Discussion
Hi all
My girlfriend's had a quote from a builder familiy friend of hers for some work on her ground floor. Oooo er. Anyway, supposedly excellent "mate's rates" have come back over double what she was expecting (and had told the guy how much money she had) and we're genuinely surprised - so wanted to run by you lot to see if his quote is normal builder type pricing, very excellent, or something different?
Please excuse the shoddy drawings; you're looking at half of the ground floor - lounge on left, dining room on right. The kitchen goes off to the bottom right and currently has a door from kitchen to garden.
Before;
After;
The work is....
Knock down wall in centre of lounge/dining room. Leave floor unfinished. Create wide archway where wall once was.
Put wall alongside stairs (currently open)
Knock through window (top right of picture) and put in patio doors.
Block up kitchen door (kitchen is to bottom right of picture with door going outside, so that's getting blocked up and more worktop space added).
Walls created will be plastered over, but not decorated.
So, that work (which doesn't seem like much to me, especially as there's no supporting walls) comes in at
Patio door where window is; £856
Kitchen door blocked up; £500
Knock down lounge wall £1500
Extend lower wall to run along side stairs; £900
So nearly £4k seems an awful lot for what (in my totally uneducated head) seems relatively simple and not time consuming?
Just after a second opinion really...next step is to get a different builder in to price up the work!
My girlfriend's had a quote from a builder familiy friend of hers for some work on her ground floor. Oooo er. Anyway, supposedly excellent "mate's rates" have come back over double what she was expecting (and had told the guy how much money she had) and we're genuinely surprised - so wanted to run by you lot to see if his quote is normal builder type pricing, very excellent, or something different?
Please excuse the shoddy drawings; you're looking at half of the ground floor - lounge on left, dining room on right. The kitchen goes off to the bottom right and currently has a door from kitchen to garden.
Before;
After;
The work is....
Knock down wall in centre of lounge/dining room. Leave floor unfinished. Create wide archway where wall once was.
Put wall alongside stairs (currently open)
Knock through window (top right of picture) and put in patio doors.
Block up kitchen door (kitchen is to bottom right of picture with door going outside, so that's getting blocked up and more worktop space added).
Walls created will be plastered over, but not decorated.
So, that work (which doesn't seem like much to me, especially as there's no supporting walls) comes in at
Patio door where window is; £856
Kitchen door blocked up; £500
Knock down lounge wall £1500
Extend lower wall to run along side stairs; £900
So nearly £4k seems an awful lot for what (in my totally uneducated head) seems relatively simple and not time consuming?
Just after a second opinion really...next step is to get a different builder in to price up the work!
Actually I should have mentioned the £850 for patio door I thought was ok (no idea on cost of door out of that, but he will be making good around outside), it was the other bits - particularly the wall along side stairs and knocking down in lounge.
Thinking about it now - he did say he would need to put a (very wide) arch in - i imagined it was to hide something, but thinking further that could be to support the floor above which could explain why it's more than I imagined.
Thinking about it now - he did say he would need to put a (very wide) arch in - i imagined it was to hide something, but thinking further that could be to support the floor above which could explain why it's more than I imagined.
TonyHetherington said:
Thinking about it now - he did say he would need to put a (very wide) arch in - i imagined it was to hide something, but thinking further that could be to support the floor above which could explain why it's more than I imagined.
Yup! That wall will require a lintel as it will be a supporting wall.Oh, and I don't wish to appear an alarmist, but, someone has nicked the TV.
Ah that will explain the cost for that - thanks!
Made me laugh about the TV
- planning on putting a flatscreen on the wall somewhere I think (or rather planned) - the cost is so much more than anticipated that might not do the knock-through and just have the patio door put in I think.
Made me laugh about the TV
- planning on putting a flatscreen on the wall somewhere I think (or rather planned) - the cost is so much more than anticipated that might not do the knock-through and just have the patio door put in I think.robinhood21 said:
TonyHetherington said:
Thinking about it now - he did say he would need to put a (very wide) arch in - i imagined it was to hide something, but thinking further that could be to support the floor above which could explain why it's more than I imagined.
Yup! That wall will require a lintel as it will be a supporting wall. robinhood21 said:
Oh, and I don't wish to appear an alarmist, but, someone has nicked the TV.
The mexican took it when he left
i needed a wall knocking through in my lounge. it needed an RSJ putting in [free from work] and making good. the builder i used did that, put a lintel in a chimney breast so i could fit a range oven in the kitchen, and dry lined/skimmed my 4m x 2.5m kitchen. all for £680 + VAT.
i snapped his hand off at that price, though i suspect i got it cheap as he knew i needed the whole house replastering, work which went to him.
i snapped his hand off at that price, though i suspect i got it cheap as he knew i needed the whole house replastering, work which went to him.
mechsympathy said:
robinhood21 said:
TonyHetherington said:
Thinking about it now - he did say he would need to put a (very wide) arch in - i imagined it was to hide something, but thinking further that could be to support the floor above which could explain why it's more than I imagined.
Yup! That wall will require a lintel as it will be a supporting wall. Tony,
You need to get some other quotes to compare and get a feel for what's realistic, but from my experiences I would veer away from using a friend of the family.
Actually, I would go further than that and say don't do it! If the builder feels the price is too low, expectations will be set incorrectly and bad feelings will emerge. If the client thinks the price is too high.. well, it's the same - expectations set incorrectly. Mates rates don't really exist. Builders are businesses like any other and they have material and labour cost just like anyone else. The guy's got a mortgage and has to have money to buy beer and steak. The only way the price can really come down is to do something dodgy.
Not only that; friendly deals/mates rates come with verbal agreements.. that later both parties have a different recollection of. And then the extras - are they included extras or not? There's a friend/formality boundary that is difficult to close in on at agreement, but it can go wrong in a you may find essential later. If she does go with the friend, there MUST be a written contract (ie. what's he doing / what's included / how much). This informal friendly approach is awful when it bites.
My advise would be to get 3 other quotes. Don't be afraid to ask for a T & M breakdown and then talk to the builders about it - the first price is never the one they expect you to take!
The best way your builder friend could help is to provide guidance on the quote and the work in progress.
Ben
PS. Tell Gina the dust will be airborne and EVERYWHERE! Believe me - I've hardly any original walls left in my house!
You need to get some other quotes to compare and get a feel for what's realistic, but from my experiences I would veer away from using a friend of the family.
Actually, I would go further than that and say don't do it! If the builder feels the price is too low, expectations will be set incorrectly and bad feelings will emerge. If the client thinks the price is too high.. well, it's the same - expectations set incorrectly. Mates rates don't really exist. Builders are businesses like any other and they have material and labour cost just like anyone else. The guy's got a mortgage and has to have money to buy beer and steak. The only way the price can really come down is to do something dodgy.
Not only that; friendly deals/mates rates come with verbal agreements.. that later both parties have a different recollection of. And then the extras - are they included extras or not? There's a friend/formality boundary that is difficult to close in on at agreement, but it can go wrong in a you may find essential later. If she does go with the friend, there MUST be a written contract (ie. what's he doing / what's included / how much). This informal friendly approach is awful when it bites.
My advise would be to get 3 other quotes. Don't be afraid to ask for a T & M breakdown and then talk to the builders about it - the first price is never the one they expect you to take!
The best way your builder friend could help is to provide guidance on the quote and the work in progress.
Ben
PS. Tell Gina the dust will be airborne and EVERYWHERE! Believe me - I've hardly any original walls left in my house!
TonyHetherington said:
Hi all
My girlfriend's had a quote from a builder familiy friend of hers for some work on her ground floor. Oooo er. Anyway, supposedly excellent "mate's rates" have come back over double what she was expecting (and had told the guy how much money she had) and we're genuinely surprised - so wanted to run by you lot to see if his quote is normal builder type pricing, very excellent, or something different?
Please excuse the shoddy drawings; you're looking at half of the ground floor - lounge on left, dining room on right. The kitchen goes off to the bottom right and currently has a door from kitchen to garden.
Before;
After;
The work is....
Knock down wall in centre of lounge/dining room. Leave floor unfinished. Create wide archway where wall once was.
Put wall alongside stairs (currently open)
Knock through window (top right of picture) and put in patio doors.
Block up kitchen door (kitchen is to bottom right of picture with door going outside, so that's getting blocked up and more worktop space added).
Walls created will be plastered over, but not decorated.
So, that work (which doesn't seem like much to me, especially as there's no supporting walls) comes in at
Patio door where window is; £856 - I would ask, as others have commented, for a mterials and labour price, then you can see what he is getting the patio door for, which, if i am honest, doesnt seem too bad. If he is getting the upvc door direct from factory, it wont be more thanc.£400 in my experience, he may even be getting them to come and fit it. I would just double check with him that he has allowed for making good all the reveals of the newly kncoked about window opening, and isnt planning on covering everything up with mastic against brickwork and is aplanning on pinting where neccesary.
Kitchen door blocked up; £500 seems in round figures to be a ball park cost - and as he has only done it over the phone it is all it can be - he needs to see it. Ask what bricks he has allowed for, and if the bricks are going to be properly tiued in, and matching bricks, and pointed correctly to match. he needs to splice the brickwork properly, not just " fill in "the opening.
Knock down lounge wall £1500 - seems really, really expensive - IF, it is a Non load bearing. skip, and half a day. If it is a loadbearing, he needs to alow for fitting a proper RSJ, skip for blockwork removal, labou, and the neccesary propping/making good to all surrounding plasterwork etc. certainly an area to question.
Extend lower wall to run along side stairs; £900 - has he allowed for blockwork and neccesary plaster finish, or is it a timber framed and boarded system?
So nearly £4k seems an awful lot for what (in my totally uneducated head) seems relatively simple and not time consuming?
Just after a second opinion really...next step is to get a different builder in to price up the work!
If I were you, I would get two, or even three more quotes, and ask for full breakdowns of labour, and materials, and agreed timescales. Compare them, and dont be bullied in to agreeing anyting without first cinsulting PH...
Oh, and make sure that they are FULLY Insured. Home insureance will often Null and Void should anything happen whilst they are working, and are not insured. Imagine the issues should the first floor collapse and you find out the builder is un insiured, and the home insurance does not pay out....
My girlfriend's had a quote from a builder familiy friend of hers for some work on her ground floor. Oooo er. Anyway, supposedly excellent "mate's rates" have come back over double what she was expecting (and had told the guy how much money she had) and we're genuinely surprised - so wanted to run by you lot to see if his quote is normal builder type pricing, very excellent, or something different?
Please excuse the shoddy drawings; you're looking at half of the ground floor - lounge on left, dining room on right. The kitchen goes off to the bottom right and currently has a door from kitchen to garden.
Before;
After;
The work is....
Knock down wall in centre of lounge/dining room. Leave floor unfinished. Create wide archway where wall once was.
Put wall alongside stairs (currently open)
Knock through window (top right of picture) and put in patio doors.
Block up kitchen door (kitchen is to bottom right of picture with door going outside, so that's getting blocked up and more worktop space added).
Walls created will be plastered over, but not decorated.
So, that work (which doesn't seem like much to me, especially as there's no supporting walls) comes in at
Patio door where window is; £856 - I would ask, as others have commented, for a mterials and labour price, then you can see what he is getting the patio door for, which, if i am honest, doesnt seem too bad. If he is getting the upvc door direct from factory, it wont be more thanc.£400 in my experience, he may even be getting them to come and fit it. I would just double check with him that he has allowed for making good all the reveals of the newly kncoked about window opening, and isnt planning on covering everything up with mastic against brickwork and is aplanning on pinting where neccesary.
Kitchen door blocked up; £500 seems in round figures to be a ball park cost - and as he has only done it over the phone it is all it can be - he needs to see it. Ask what bricks he has allowed for, and if the bricks are going to be properly tiued in, and matching bricks, and pointed correctly to match. he needs to splice the brickwork properly, not just " fill in "the opening.
Knock down lounge wall £1500 - seems really, really expensive - IF, it is a Non load bearing. skip, and half a day. If it is a loadbearing, he needs to alow for fitting a proper RSJ, skip for blockwork removal, labou, and the neccesary propping/making good to all surrounding plasterwork etc. certainly an area to question.
Extend lower wall to run along side stairs; £900 - has he allowed for blockwork and neccesary plaster finish, or is it a timber framed and boarded system?
So nearly £4k seems an awful lot for what (in my totally uneducated head) seems relatively simple and not time consuming?
Just after a second opinion really...next step is to get a different builder in to price up the work!
If I were you, I would get two, or even three more quotes, and ask for full breakdowns of labour, and materials, and agreed timescales. Compare them, and dont be bullied in to agreeing anyting without first cinsulting PH...
Oh, and make sure that they are FULLY Insured. Home insureance will often Null and Void should anything happen whilst they are working, and are not insured. Imagine the issues should the first floor collapse and you find out the builder is un insiured, and the home insurance does not pay out....
On the face of it 4k seems a very fair price, if carried out correctly.
Generally builders dont/wont like breaking down the price into labour & materials, you like the quote pay it, if you dont...go else where.
No need to sign contracts, just get the quote (not estimate) in writing and agree an hourly rate/price for any unforseen extras before if & when they they arise.
Could also ask if theres any of his recent work that you could look at.
Generally builders dont/wont like breaking down the price into labour & materials, you like the quote pay it, if you dont...go else where.
No need to sign contracts, just get the quote (not estimate) in writing and agree an hourly rate/price for any unforseen extras before if & when they they arise.
Could also ask if theres any of his recent work that you could look at.
To add to the door question...
Have just had new patio door put in, replacing a window. The builder took out the window, removed all the brickwork (extremely neatly) and fitted the new UPVC double glazed window. Was not desperately fancy design, but well made.
All up cost was £950 inc. VAT - I was advised by others this was a good price, and quite a bit less than 6 months ago (volume of work, and all that).
Jono
Have just had new patio door put in, replacing a window. The builder took out the window, removed all the brickwork (extremely neatly) and fitted the new UPVC double glazed window. Was not desperately fancy design, but well made.
All up cost was £950 inc. VAT - I was advised by others this was a good price, and quite a bit less than 6 months ago (volume of work, and all that).
Jono
£500 to block up a door?
That seems to stick out a bit!
As has been said, without knowing the full details, it's hard to tell, really.
Blocking up a kitchen door really shouldn't take that long, and I can't see the materials needed for it being particularly expensive.
Did he say how long it would take, and is that a cash price, or proper through the books and insured job?
That seems to stick out a bit!
As has been said, without knowing the full details, it's hard to tell, really.
Blocking up a kitchen door really shouldn't take that long, and I can't see the materials needed for it being particularly expensive.
Did he say how long it would take, and is that a cash price, or proper through the books and insured job?
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