Plumbing Question - boilers, water softeners, showers etc

[garycat]

Hi,

We have just moved into a bungalow which needs work to modernise the kitchen and bathrooms. It currently has a cold water tank in the loft, a hot water tank in the airing cupboard. The one shower is pretty pathetic as there is hardly any pressure (I've had more effective showers in the front row of a sex pistols concert).

So, what I would like to do is replace the boiler with a condensing combi boiler as this will allow me to get rid of the cold water tank in the loft and the hot water tank, and I can convert the airing cupboard space into a shower cubicle wet room.

I also want to keep the water softener that the previous owners left behind but I'm not sure if these will handle the pressure required to feed the showers with a decent flow.

I guess the pipework will be...

Incoming main -+-> Kitchen Tap -> Softener -+-> Boiler -> HW/CH
               +-> Garden tap               +-> Cold pipes (& washing machine etc)

Does this sound workable?

[Ferg]

Yep, any ion-exchange water softener will easily flow enough water for a combination boiler. Remember that the flow from one is really not brilliant, hence their slow filling of baths.
Combination Boilers are really only now producing 16+ litres/minute, whilst any decent unvented cylinder will be flowing upwards of 25.

[MrV]

If there is nothing wrong with the existing boiler would it not be easier and cheaper to just move the Hot tank into the loft and add a pump to the system ?

As Ferg said combi's dont really give you a mega shower.

[garycat]

Doesn't the hot water cyl have to be below the cold water tank? As it is a bungalow with a fairly shallow pitched roof I don't know if I could physically locate the HWC in the loft.

[MrV]

garycat said:

Doesn't the hot water cyl have to be below the cold water tank? As it is a bungalow with a fairly shallow pitched roof I don't know if I could physically locate the HWC in the loft.

Always a way around it

I put in a coffin tank (Cold water tank same size as a coffin) into the roof apex in my place and the HWC fitted in beneath it ,thats with a head height of about 6 feet from the ceiling joists so a pretty shallow pitch on my roof to.

[cjs]

MrV said:

If there is nothing wrong with the existing boiler would it not be easier and cheaper to just move the Hot tank into the loft and add a pump to the system ?

As Ferg said combi's dont really give you a mega shower.

That's tosh, my Combi gives me a very good shower, that is one of the advantages a combi has over a standard tanked system. If the mains pressure is good you will have no problems with a combi.

[robinhood21]

cjs said:

MrV said:

If there is nothing wrong with the existing boiler would it not be easier and cheaper to just move the Hot tank into the loft and add a pump to the system ?

As Ferg said combi's dont really give you a mega shower.

That's tosh, my Combi gives me a very good shower, that is one of the advantages a combi has over a standard tanked system. If the mains pressure is good you will have no problems with a combi.

Same here! Might take a while with filling a bath, but for showering are ace.

[Ferg]

MrV said:

As Ferg said combi's dont really give you a mega shower.

Did I??

[manty]

Combies are not all made equal. If you decide to go the combi route, it would be worth checking the various makes and models flow rates at set temperature. they do vary a lot, and the higher flow rate the better.

[MrV]

Ferg said:

MrV said:

As Ferg said combi's dont really give you a mega shower.

Did I??

Sorry fella read your post wrong.

Combi's are only as good as the pressure going into them,so based on my own experience of having almost no pressure at all in the summer then yes they are crap

If your in an area with good pressure then I am sure they are wonderful I still would not have one though.

[Gingerbread Man]

garycat said:

Doesn't the hot water cyl have to be below the cold water tank? As it is a bungalow with a fairly shallow pitched roof I don't know if I could physically locate the HWC in the loft.

You can get cylinders that are designed to lay down as opposed to stand up.

[Ferg]

MrV said:

I still would not have one though.

Neither would I...ever.

[garycat]

Ferg said:

MrV said:

I still would not have one though.

Neither would I...ever.

Any reason in particular? We had one (Glow-worm Cxi) at the house we rented and it worked pretty well IMHO.

[Ferg]

Poor flow for filling a bath, installation costs, scaling problems in hard water, sludge problems in less than perfect old systems, lack of stored water in mains-fail situations, lack of hot water in boiler breakdown situations, flow rate in multiple outlet systems....

They are OK in a few select situations, but I've seen far too many ill-thought out installations to be honest.
People will get all excited about 45kW boilers and how good the flow rate is, but a sniff of hard water and you're fked, plus you're looking at high gas flow rates meaning potentially 35mm supplies.