Buildingheads... planning permission matters ?

[Nimbus]

Hoping to tap any of the pistonheads builders or developers knowledge out there

I've been looking at a new house, ( not newbuild.. ), and the current owners have modified half of one side of the double garage, ( heathens ! ), to make a new room off the main house.

The work looks fairly ok, its breezeblock and plasterboard, with a couple of frosted windows.
Its got power and lighting and a normal door back into the house, but no way into the garage from it.

Are there any planning issues with them having done this ?
Should it have been approved or inspected by the council, and should they have any paperwork to support it ?

Or is it one of these rooms that you can make yourself, but cant count 'offically' as a room ?
A bit like when people board out their loft, but cant call it a bedroom as no proper stairs/fire escape...

Just trying to head off any issues before a solictor picks up and charges me for it, or equally, to use as a negotiating aid on price..

Happily even tho he's used up a good chunk of the garage , it would still leave room for my motorbike, and the car the other side, but just want to spot any 'gotyas' ahead of the game as it were..

[Plotloss]

Dont think it will need planning but it must conform to regs.

As long as everything is there in the paperwork, presumably in the HIPS pack, then its all good.

Not 100% sure mind.

[GreigM]

Phone the local council to be sure - one of the planning officers will be able to talk to you and tell you - this would be a big mistake to buy without ensuring that its all properly consented as it could cause you a world of grief afterward. They definitely should have a completion certificate from building control - you need to speak to them too.

[mechsympathy]

Wot Plotloss said. You can buy an indemnity policy to cover you for buildings regs issues though.

[SJobson]

mechsympathy said:

You can buy an indemnity policy to cover you for buildings regs issues though.

Buying insurance doesn't provide an answer if the local authority tell you to remove it - it might cover the cost but you've lost the room. Make sure it has building regs approval. It may also require planning - check with the local planning department what their view is.

[mechsympathy]

SJobson said:

Buying insurance doesn't provide an answer if the local authority tell you to remove it - it might cover the cost but you've lost the room. Make sure it has building regs approval. It may also require planning - check with the local planning department what their view is.

Planning and buildings regs are seperate issues though. If it doesn't have planning they can make you remove it, if it doesn't have regs they can make you adapt it til it does. The indemnity policy covers building regs not planning.

[SJobson]

You can have an enforcement notice for lack of building regs too. Insurance won't prevent the local authority asking you to take down your construction because it doesn't comply.

Edited by SJobson on Thursday 5th March 09:23

[mechsympathy]

SJobson said:

You can have an enforcement notice for lack of building regs too. Insurance won't prevent the local authority asking you to take down your construction because it doesn't comply.

It's a converted half of a garage. Surely all they could do was serve a notice to sort it to buildings regs levels? Which would be covered by the policy.

[andye30m3]

I don't think it would need planning if the permitted development rights haven't been used elsewhere, I reecently did the drawings for a friend who did a similar thing and applied for a certificate of lawful development.

Building regs is likely to be more of an issue, if it was a garage has it been insulated properly if not they will expect you to bring it up to current regs, nothing which can't be over come but it's a job which may need doing.

[Nimbus]

ah, ok, so he should definitely have some sort of paperwork to do with it then ?

to be honest I'd be happy to have the garage back as a proper double myself

but if its there, then its a negotiating point, and it needs to have been done properly if he's using it to justify the price..

off to the hip pack, and ask the agents some pointed questions then

thanks for the help guys, much appreciated

[MrV]

andye30m3 said:

Building regs is likely to be more of an issue, if it was a garage has it been insulated properly if not they will expect you to bring it up to current regs, nothing which can't be over come but it's a job which may need doing.

The Regs part is what I would say you need to look at to

Most garages are single skin of brick work and don't have insulated roofs ,I would enquire as to whether has all been brought up to the current regs when the alteration was carried out.


Worst case you have to turn it back into a garage ,just make sure this is reflected in the house price.

[SJobson]

mechsympathy said:

SJobson said:

You can have an enforcement notice for lack of building regs too. Insurance won't prevent the local authority asking you to take down your construction because it doesn't comply.

It's a converted half of a garage. Surely all they could do was serve a notice to sort it to buildings regs levels? Which would be covered by the policy.

I'm not sure that's how the indemnity works - you can't build something cheaply, take out insurance and get a proper building regs compliant room as a result.

[mechsympathy]

SJobson said:

I'm not sure that's how the indemnity works - you can't build something cheaply, take out insurance and get a proper building regs compliant room as a result.

TBH now I'm thinking about it it does seem a little too good to be true Particularly as it was so cheap when we got one.

....wanders off to look at google...

[garycat]

Search the local council website for planning applications. You should be able to find it and check if it was full approved and if it is built to the correspond with the plans.

You can then call the council with the plan reference number and check it got a completion certificate.

[SJobson]

I've just had a look at Titlesolv's policy wording:

"Cover is provided in the event that the local building control/FENSA authority establishes or attempts to establish that the works are in breach of building regulations and/or FENSA regulations, against:-
(i) the adverse difference between the market value of the property assuming that the works are lawful and the market value of the property following successful enforcement action by the local building control/FENSA authority in respect of the works.
(ii) the cost of any alteration, demolition and re-instatement of the property required by the local building control authority following successful enforcement action in respect of the works.
(iii) any other costs and expenses incurred with the Insurer’s written consent."

So it covers the loss of market value and reinstatement of the works (i.e. removal of the room). This is why I'm quite against people using insurance rather than doing proper due diligence - it won't give you a compliant house.

[hornetrider]

I have an interesting related question, if I may.

We bought a house with a garage conversion (heathens!) which wasn't signed off with building regs. Our solicitor picked it up and the vendor had to buy us an insurance policy to cover it.

Now - I want to convert the room back to a garage... would there be any way of utilising this insurance policy to cover my expenses?

[cardigankid]

OP - It may well need Planning Consent if they have altered the exterior, for example by putting the windows in. You cannot assume that this is Permitted Development, ie stuff a homeowner can do without consent. If that is what is being suggested you need confirmation from the Planning Authority IN THE FORM OF A LETTER. More importantly the work would absolutely need a Building Warrant and Completion Certificate, and, before you get conned, the approvals need to match the work carried out.

This is a very serious matter, and could cost you a packet to fix if they haven't got the approvals in place. A window in the wrong place and a sticky neighbour and you can kiss the Planning Consent goodbye. Bringing it up to Building Standards could involve a rebuild. Do not take a chance under any circumstances. That's my advice anyway.

Hornet - what does the Policy say? I assume that you could only claim if the Local Authority cottoned on and insisted that you put it back the way it was.

Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 5th March 10:03

[Nimbus]

cardigankid said:

OP - It may well need Planning Consent if they have altered the exterior, for example by putting the windows in. You cannot assume that this is Permitted Development, ie stuff a homeowner can do without consent. If that is what is being suggested you need confirmation from the Planning Authority IN THE FORM OF A LETTER. More importantly the work would absolutely need a Building Warrant and Completion Certificate, and, before you get conned, the approvals need to match the work carried out.

This is a very serious matter, and could cost you a packet to fix if they haven't got the approvals in place. A window in the wrong place and a sticky neighbour and you can kiss the Planning Consent goodbye. Bringing it up to Building Standards could involve a rebuild. Do not take a chance under any circumstances. That's my advice anyway.

Hornet - what does the Policy say? I assume that you could only claim if the Local Authority cottoned on and insisted that you put it back the way it was.

Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 5th March 10:03

hmm, well, the windows are 'internal', so from 'outside' you'd never know the room is there. Its just got a new door off the hallway.
I wonder, if he's just got someone in to do it, if he ever got any kind of permission, as in theory, no one would know its there..

Definitely something to get to the bottom of..

[TedMaul]

mechsympathy said:

Wot Plotloss said. You can buy an indemnity policy to cover you for buildings regs issues though.

I would get the vendor to buy the policy, thats what we did.

[mechsympathy]

TedMaul said:

mechsympathy said:

Wot Plotloss said. You can buy an indemnity policy to cover you for buildings regs issues though.

I would get the vendor to buy the policy, thats what we did.

Likewise, but it doesn't sound like the get out of jail free card I thought it was