Baffled by off peak electricity....
Discussion
Decades ago there was "Economy 7" which meant any electricity used during those 7 hours was at a cheaper rate.
Fast forward to today...
My daughter's flat has two consumer unit. One has all the usual stuff on (sockets, lights etc) and is (I assume) the day panel. The other only has the hot water cylinder on and that "seems" to be fed with off peak electricity as controlled by a Smart meter in some communal cupboard somewhere.
This to me suggests that any electricity used by any other appliance during off peak hours is still charged at day rates and only the hot water cylinder on the second CU is ever charged at off peak hours. Is that the case?
If so it seems a backward step to me as using the dryer off peak is still charged at day rates?
Fast forward to today...
My daughter's flat has two consumer unit. One has all the usual stuff on (sockets, lights etc) and is (I assume) the day panel. The other only has the hot water cylinder on and that "seems" to be fed with off peak electricity as controlled by a Smart meter in some communal cupboard somewhere.
This to me suggests that any electricity used by any other appliance during off peak hours is still charged at day rates and only the hot water cylinder on the second CU is ever charged at off peak hours. Is that the case?
If so it seems a backward step to me as using the dryer off peak is still charged at day rates?
Scarletpimpofnel said:
Decades ago there was "Economy 7" which meant any electricity used during those 7 hours was at a cheaper rate.
Fast forward to today...
My daughter's flat has two consumer unit. One has all the usual stuff on (sockets, lights etc) and is (I assume) the day panel. The other only has the hot water cylinder on and that "seems" to be fed with off peak electricity as controlled by a Smart meter in some communal cupboard somewhere.
This to me suggests that any electricity used by any other appliance during off peak hours is still charged at day rates and only the hot water cylinder on the second CU is ever charged at off peak hours. Is that the case?
If so it seems a backward step to me as using the dryer off peak is still charged at day rates?
If what you think you are seeing were true, you would need two incomers supplied by 2 completely separate supply grids.Fast forward to today...
My daughter's flat has two consumer unit. One has all the usual stuff on (sockets, lights etc) and is (I assume) the day panel. The other only has the hot water cylinder on and that "seems" to be fed with off peak electricity as controlled by a Smart meter in some communal cupboard somewhere.
This to me suggests that any electricity used by any other appliance during off peak hours is still charged at day rates and only the hot water cylinder on the second CU is ever charged at off peak hours. Is that the case?
If so it seems a backward step to me as using the dryer off peak is still charged at day rates?
The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
Is the other CU (the main one) also connected to the same smart meter?
Many years ago some properties with storage heaters had completely separate circuits and meters (often a white meter) for the storage heater and hot water circuits. Sounds like you might have remnants of that, but I don't think the separate metering exists now.
Our house had an economy 7 meter but no separate CU - it was single meter and a time clock changed it from day to night. The smart meter we have now does the same thing but we're on a single rate tariff - I get both day and night readings on the bill but they're charged at the same rate. E7 isn't worth having unless you use a fair chunk of electric at night because the E7 day rate is dearer.
Many years ago some properties with storage heaters had completely separate circuits and meters (often a white meter) for the storage heater and hot water circuits. Sounds like you might have remnants of that, but I don't think the separate metering exists now.
Our house had an economy 7 meter but no separate CU - it was single meter and a time clock changed it from day to night. The smart meter we have now does the same thing but we're on a single rate tariff - I get both day and night readings on the bill but they're charged at the same rate. E7 isn't worth having unless you use a fair chunk of electric at night because the E7 day rate is dearer.
Nothing to worry about. The second cu with the immersion and storage heaters on will only become live when the smart meter switches over. There used to be a radio teleswitch that controlled this and then a dual rate meter. The other cu, everything is live 24 hours, but also reverts to the low rate when the low rate tariff is in use.
mikeiow said:
It is perfectly possible to have more than one CU .maybe the original had no spare capacity.
Nothing to do with the tariffs.
What is making you think it is?
True.Nothing to do with the tariffs.
What is making you think it is?
Edited by mikeiow on Sunday 9th August 07:05
But the one MCB in the "Night" immersion heater panel, that would fit in the spare way on the "Day" panel (that includes the day boost immersion), so no need for two CU imo. I read that the night panel is fed from the smart meter only during the energy suppliers (British Gas) off peak hours. Outside those times it is dead -
E-bmw said:
If what you think you are seeing were true, you would need two incomers supplied by 2 completely separate supply grids.
The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
The flat is fed by a smart meter. How many grid connections there are to the meter I have no idea. From what I have read (possibly wrong) the smart meter activates the "night" CU during British Gas's off peak hours and that in turn powers the night immersion heater. There is no timer etc accessible in the flat it is all done by the smart meter is my understanding.The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
I may well be wrong though and perhaps it's down to capacity as you and other poster said. So can I be certain that both CU are fed off peak electricity ?
I appreciate I may be being stupid here but I read online that the smart meter only feeds the "Night" CU during off peak hours but that doesn't sound right I agree. Appreciate your reassurance.
I might do a test and put some appliance on during the day and then at night and see if the charge per kwh is the same or different. That would shut me up.
DarrenO'D' said:
Nothing to worry about. The second cu with the immersion and storage heaters on will only become live when the smart meter switches over. There used to be a radio teleswitch that controlled this and then a dual rate meter. The other cu, everything is live 24 hours, but also reverts to the low rate when the low rate tariff is in use.
Ah brilliant. Thanks. That is what I am prattling on about.Scarletpimpofnel said:
DarrenO'D' said:
Nothing to worry about. The second cu with the immersion and storage heaters on will only become live when the smart meter switches over. There used to be a radio teleswitch that controlled this and then a dual rate meter. The other cu, everything is live 24 hours, but also reverts to the low rate when the low rate tariff is in use.
Ah brilliant. Thanks. That is what I am prattling on about.I think everything goes to cheap rate at night.
Scarletpimpofnel said:
British Gas Fixed Tariff Jun27 v7
Is she definitely on the E7 version of that tariff - the bills will have day / night reading and the unit charge will be different.It did used to work in the way you said with the radio teleswitch system activating storage and water heaters but that was obsoleted last year. Apparently there are smart meters that can do the same thing now - they have an extra output to turn things on at the appropriate time.
Scarletpimpofnel said:
E-bmw said:
If what you think you are seeing were true, you would need two incomers supplied by 2 completely separate supply grids.
The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
The flat is fed by a smart meter. How many grid connections there are to the meter I have no idea. From what I have read (possibly wrong) the smart meter activates the "night" CU during British Gas's off peak hours and that in turn powers the night immersion heater. There is no timer etc accessible in the flat it is all done by the smart meter is my understanding.The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
I may well be wrong though and perhaps it's down to capacity as you and other poster said. So can I be certain that both CU are fed off peak electricity ?
alscar said:
We only have the one meter but the daytime and night readings have been switched around since we moved in about 22 years ago.
This is obvious from the usage.
I pay the same tariff so it makes no difference.
Trying to explain it or change it now probably isn t worth the hassle !
When we had meter readers ours got read the wrong way around twice and that was a nightmare to sort out each time.This is obvious from the usage.
I pay the same tariff so it makes no difference.
Trying to explain it or change it now probably isn t worth the hassle !
We stopped using an E7 tariff some years ago but when we had a smart meter fitted it still shows day and night readings (do they all do that?) and they’re still separate on the bill.
Sheepshanks said:
alscar said:
We only have the one meter but the daytime and night readings have been switched around since we moved in about 22 years ago.
This is obvious from the usage.
I pay the same tariff so it makes no difference.
Trying to explain it or change it now probably isn t worth the hassle !
When we had meter readers ours got read the wrong way around twice and that was a nightmare to sort out each time.This is obvious from the usage.
I pay the same tariff so it makes no difference.
Trying to explain it or change it now probably isn t worth the hassle !
We stopped using an E7 tariff some years ago but when we had a smart meter fitted it still shows day and night readings (do they all do that?) and they re still separate on the bill.
I declined the smart meter offer as thought that was bound to start the hassle.
For a while, ages ago, my parents had a radio switch, two meters and two 'fuse boxes'.
The cheap rate meter was switched off by the teleswitch, so the storage heaters only took power during E7 hours. There may have been some sockets on that circuit too. So you didn't need your own timer on the storage heaters. If you used all the hot water, there was no more until midnight unless the Rayburn was lit.
Back in the 60s/early 70s (?) some people may have had a coin meter for heating and a normal meter for lighting?
Lots of houses have legacy wiring from the radio switch days, indeed some people still have the switch in place.
Other houses had a dual rate meter, where the radio signal changed the rate at which the whole house was charged.
I had this about 20 years ago.
I think the meter, which was electronic, had its own clock inside and only needed the radio signal to sync now and then, not sure about that.
It just worked.
Before that, I think there were mechanical dual rate meters? Two sets of dials or mile-ometer style numbers?
So the power circuits were all in one, but the meter counted cheap or peak units according to what the radio switch said.
Now (AIUI) the radio switch service ha been discontinued, the rate you get charged is an entirely separate issue.
You could have two mechanical meters both charging at the price cap.
You could have one smart meter feeding all circuits, with a time of use tariff.
You could have a single smart meter or a mech meter feeding everything at a single tariff.
The cheap rate meter was switched off by the teleswitch, so the storage heaters only took power during E7 hours. There may have been some sockets on that circuit too. So you didn't need your own timer on the storage heaters. If you used all the hot water, there was no more until midnight unless the Rayburn was lit.
Back in the 60s/early 70s (?) some people may have had a coin meter for heating and a normal meter for lighting?
Lots of houses have legacy wiring from the radio switch days, indeed some people still have the switch in place.
Other houses had a dual rate meter, where the radio signal changed the rate at which the whole house was charged.
I had this about 20 years ago.
I think the meter, which was electronic, had its own clock inside and only needed the radio signal to sync now and then, not sure about that.
It just worked.
Before that, I think there were mechanical dual rate meters? Two sets of dials or mile-ometer style numbers?
So the power circuits were all in one, but the meter counted cheap or peak units according to what the radio switch said.
Now (AIUI) the radio switch service ha been discontinued, the rate you get charged is an entirely separate issue.
You could have two mechanical meters both charging at the price cap.
You could have one smart meter feeding all circuits, with a time of use tariff.
You could have a single smart meter or a mech meter feeding everything at a single tariff.
Sheepshanks said:
Scarletpimpofnel said:
British Gas Fixed Tariff Jun27 v7
Is she definitely on the E7 version of that tariff - the bills will have day / night reading and the unit charge will be different.It did used to work in the way you said with the radio teleswitch system activating storage and water heaters but that was obsoleted last year. Apparently there are smart meters that can do the same thing now - they have an extra output to turn things on at the appropriate time.
E-bmw said:
Scarletpimpofnel said:
E-bmw said:
If what you think you are seeing were true, you would need two incomers supplied by 2 completely separate supply grids.
The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
The flat is fed by a smart meter. How many grid connections there are to the meter I have no idea. From what I have read (possibly wrong) the smart meter activates the "night" CU during British Gas's off peak hours and that in turn powers the night immersion heater. There is no timer etc accessible in the flat it is all done by the smart meter is my understanding.The poster above has it right, there has been an addition perhaps due to limited available ways or limited current carrying capacity of the original so the consumer units are wired separately.
"Cheap rate" electricity is supplied down the same cables from the same grid to the same consumer units, it is just sold at a cheaper price if that is the tariff you are on.
I may well be wrong though and perhaps it's down to capacity as you and other poster said. So can I be certain that both CU are fed off peak electricity ?
OutInTheShed said:
...
Now (AIUI) the radio switch service ha been discontinued, the rate you get charged is an entirely separate issue.
You could have two mechanical meters both charging at the price cap.
You could have one smart meter feeding all circuits, with a time of use tariff.
You could have a single smart meter or a mech meter feeding everything at a single tariff.
This is what I don't understand:Now (AIUI) the radio switch service ha been discontinued, the rate you get charged is an entirely separate issue.
You could have two mechanical meters both charging at the price cap.
You could have one smart meter feeding all circuits, with a time of use tariff.
You could have a single smart meter or a mech meter feeding everything at a single tariff.
She has a smart meter
For the off peak immersion there is no time switch in the flat, it is controlled by the smart meter as to when it goes on/off.
The off peak immersion is on its own CU.
To me the smart meter must "energise" that off peak CU during off peak hours, but others are saying that is not possible.
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