Extension or move conundrum
Discussion
Didnt know wether this should be in Finance or Homes (feel free to move mods).
Current situation;
44, partner & 3 kids
3 bed semi, 2 siblings share a room, the other has a room to themself.
1 bathroom, large garden, driveway to accomodate 2 cars
currently £83k left on the mortgage, 12 years remaining.
I have planning permission approved to add a single storey extension and a garage conversion, this will give me an office downstairs, an additional bedroom and open plan kitchen/diner/living area the way Mrs C wants it - probably going to cost me £125k all in.
Pro's: close to friends, family, school etc, nice part of the city, lovely neighbours (apart from one - ill come onto that later). Planning permission granted for a big extension circa 50sqm
Cons: live on a through road so moderate traffic, idiots boosting down the road popping exhausts, its a semi so there is some noise from nextdoor but they are lovely people, the road is increasingly becoming congested with parked cars (households getting more cars) and in 3 years my eldest will probably start driving, the areas seems to be somewhere where FTBs/Young profesionals get onto the housing ladder, and it seems we need somewhere bigger to accomodate us and a bit quiter.
The bit that made us think,recently a new neighbour has moved in nextdoor who seems to be young and foolish and a bit badman, i didnt realise this myself, im always pleasant to people, but i did hear of one incident and i thought its a one off, misunderstanding etc, however a neighbour informed me he had words with the lad which got heated and hes had some of his property vandalised, cant prove it was the guy but nothing like this has happened to him in the last 10 years so it is very suspicious, i know this neighbour and hes a top bloke. the new neighbour has blocked my drive a few times, and ive been polite and asked him to move which he has, it just seems they dont seem considerate or seem to think about their actions etc.
This has made me and Mrs C have a think about do we want to stay and extend or do we want to move and get a slightly bigger place that suits us. we know we cant guarantee what our new neighbours will be like but on a quiter road with more space, its going to be an improvement, our non negotiables are must be detached and 4 bed.
Pros: 4 beds all upstairs, detactched - so no noise penetrating through the walls, quiter area, everyone has their own room, most likely master will have an ensuite which we currently dont have, toilet downstairs which we dont have.
Cons: Will need to borrow more money, around £200k (as opposed to £125k), will need to extend the mortgage term to make it manageable, higher costs in terms of gas/elec/council tax etc, dont get the layout of kitchen/diner/living we want and have to make do with what we buy.
Question is, do we stay and extend or do we look to move.
[other option is to stay and extend and then move a few years later but i dont think we will breakeven, so will come at a loss - so not sure its viable]
Current situation;
44, partner & 3 kids
3 bed semi, 2 siblings share a room, the other has a room to themself.
1 bathroom, large garden, driveway to accomodate 2 cars
currently £83k left on the mortgage, 12 years remaining.
I have planning permission approved to add a single storey extension and a garage conversion, this will give me an office downstairs, an additional bedroom and open plan kitchen/diner/living area the way Mrs C wants it - probably going to cost me £125k all in.
Pro's: close to friends, family, school etc, nice part of the city, lovely neighbours (apart from one - ill come onto that later). Planning permission granted for a big extension circa 50sqm
Cons: live on a through road so moderate traffic, idiots boosting down the road popping exhausts, its a semi so there is some noise from nextdoor but they are lovely people, the road is increasingly becoming congested with parked cars (households getting more cars) and in 3 years my eldest will probably start driving, the areas seems to be somewhere where FTBs/Young profesionals get onto the housing ladder, and it seems we need somewhere bigger to accomodate us and a bit quiter.
The bit that made us think,recently a new neighbour has moved in nextdoor who seems to be young and foolish and a bit badman, i didnt realise this myself, im always pleasant to people, but i did hear of one incident and i thought its a one off, misunderstanding etc, however a neighbour informed me he had words with the lad which got heated and hes had some of his property vandalised, cant prove it was the guy but nothing like this has happened to him in the last 10 years so it is very suspicious, i know this neighbour and hes a top bloke. the new neighbour has blocked my drive a few times, and ive been polite and asked him to move which he has, it just seems they dont seem considerate or seem to think about their actions etc.
This has made me and Mrs C have a think about do we want to stay and extend or do we want to move and get a slightly bigger place that suits us. we know we cant guarantee what our new neighbours will be like but on a quiter road with more space, its going to be an improvement, our non negotiables are must be detached and 4 bed.
Pros: 4 beds all upstairs, detactched - so no noise penetrating through the walls, quiter area, everyone has their own room, most likely master will have an ensuite which we currently dont have, toilet downstairs which we dont have.
Cons: Will need to borrow more money, around £200k (as opposed to £125k), will need to extend the mortgage term to make it manageable, higher costs in terms of gas/elec/council tax etc, dont get the layout of kitchen/diner/living we want and have to make do with what we buy.
Question is, do we stay and extend or do we look to move.
[other option is to stay and extend and then move a few years later but i dont think we will breakeven, so will come at a loss - so not sure its viable]
My biggest concern with this is the stamp duty and moving costs, if you are looking at £75k extra on the mortgage how much tax will you have to part with?
Next no point moving because of neighbours, you could easily end up in the same situation, maybe not right now but anyone could move in next door.
Next no point moving because of neighbours, you could easily end up in the same situation, maybe not right now but anyone could move in next door.
One thing sticking out to me is your comment that your oldest will be driving next year, so sounds like all of your kids could be moved out within 10 years so I think you need to consider a time when its just you and your other half which isn't that far away and then maybe slowing down workwise might only be another few years away. Look at it from that perspective.
Do you see yourself staying in your current location for the foreseeable / will you be happy to retire there, as you say consider the extra costs of servicing a new house mortgage along with the extra running costs of the larger house which will need paying in perpetuity. It would be unusual to spend £0 after buying a new house so does that £75k extra cost become £100k / £125k after upgrading a few things like a bathroom / kitchen. As you say an extension and refurbishment is an opportunity to design a house around yourself which you wont get with a new house and you will be left with a house that needs little big capital spend for many years.
What are your plans work wise, borrowing the extra £75k / £100k will mean you need to continue working longer.
Do you see yourself staying in your current location for the foreseeable / will you be happy to retire there, as you say consider the extra costs of servicing a new house mortgage along with the extra running costs of the larger house which will need paying in perpetuity. It would be unusual to spend £0 after buying a new house so does that £75k extra cost become £100k / £125k after upgrading a few things like a bathroom / kitchen. As you say an extension and refurbishment is an opportunity to design a house around yourself which you wont get with a new house and you will be left with a house that needs little big capital spend for many years.
What are your plans work wise, borrowing the extra £75k / £100k will mean you need to continue working longer.
I vote move, if you were extending a detached house maybe, but for a semi...and with issues..I'd move. Another factor is the return on that 125k, is there a ceiling price for that type of property and is it adding much value?
Given it is such a big question, you could always put it on market, look for properties and see what interest there is and if you can afford what you would like. If after a few months you realise it isn't going to happen you can take it off the market and feel better about extending.
Given it is such a big question, you could always put it on market, look for properties and see what interest there is and if you can afford what you would like. If after a few months you realise it isn't going to happen you can take it off the market and feel better about extending.
We extended our 4 bed detached around 5 years ago by putting on an 8m x 6m vaulted ceiling ground floor extension forming a big kitchen / family room.
We now have a lounge that doesn't get used and the upstairs is still no bigger. The rear garden is still on an upward facing slope and during the winter the houses to the back become visible as the trees and hedgerow shed their leaves.
The kids will have both moved on by September so we are now looking at re-doing the lounge at the front to make a nice cosy room during the winter.
So my opinion would be to move and get the best house you can afford in the best area and position. Above all though don't over commit.
The other option is to look at how quickly you can pay your current mortgage off? What could you do with the spare cash?
I'm a little older than you but over the past 2 years have been paying off the extension and it is really satisfying seeing the mortgage reduce and seeing the interest payments come down.
We now have a lounge that doesn't get used and the upstairs is still no bigger. The rear garden is still on an upward facing slope and during the winter the houses to the back become visible as the trees and hedgerow shed their leaves.
The kids will have both moved on by September so we are now looking at re-doing the lounge at the front to make a nice cosy room during the winter.
So my opinion would be to move and get the best house you can afford in the best area and position. Above all though don't over commit.
The other option is to look at how quickly you can pay your current mortgage off? What could you do with the spare cash?
I'm a little older than you but over the past 2 years have been paying off the extension and it is really satisfying seeing the mortgage reduce and seeing the interest payments come down.
We went with extend and pleased we did as the house was perfect for us and in a perfect location, we just needed more bedrooms and bathrooms.
The stamp duty and moving fees which would have been around £30k was also a big deciding factor.
If we had moved to get what we have now, we would have spent around £100k more than we did by extending.
Its also meant that the rest of the house which we had fully renovated to a high standard hasn't been wasted.
The stamp duty and moving fees which would have been around £30k was also a big deciding factor.
If we had moved to get what we have now, we would have spent around £100k more than we did by extending.
Its also meant that the rest of the house which we had fully renovated to a high standard hasn't been wasted.
What about doing less in the short term?
This is not a very pistonheads answer…
Convert the garage to a downstairs bedroom with a shower/ toilet and if you have space a garden room to be used as an office/gardenstore.
University and moving out might seem a long way off but it’s potentially just 1 mortgage renewal and you could find yourself with the extra space sitting idle.
Colleague is currently upsizing his house but moving away from the commuter belt for a big city as none of them commute. He’s going end terrace to detached 4 bedroom with a drive without having to increase his borrowing.
This is not a very pistonheads answer…
Convert the garage to a downstairs bedroom with a shower/ toilet and if you have space a garden room to be used as an office/gardenstore.
University and moving out might seem a long way off but it’s potentially just 1 mortgage renewal and you could find yourself with the extra space sitting idle.
Colleague is currently upsizing his house but moving away from the commuter belt for a big city as none of them commute. He’s going end terrace to detached 4 bedroom with a drive without having to increase his borrowing.
so having done a 3 bed to 4 bed extension. I'd say do the extension. It'll give you the biggest uplift in property price v the cost of the extension.
I'd ask an estate agent what a 4 bed would be worth on your street. I would suggest it'll be a lot more than the cost to extend.
You can then live in it for a year, and then look to move with a bigger value of property behind you.
I'd ask an estate agent what a 4 bed would be worth on your street. I would suggest it'll be a lot more than the cost to extend.
You can then live in it for a year, and then look to move with a bigger value of property behind you.
In a similar situation to you 15 years ago, we chose to move. Loft conversion and extension was considered at our existing semi, but we were never going to have a garage or off road parking there. We upsized to a 4-bed (all doubles) detached with double garage and driveway for £100k more than the sale price of our semi - and the estimate to do the loft and extensions at the semi were around that money too, so we ended up with purpose built bigger facilities on a bigger plot with parking for the same money, roughly speaking.
What we did was chose a 1970s build detached whereas our previous semi was a period feature packed Edwardian. Bargains can be had for less fashionable looking houses if you look, in my experience.
What we did was chose a 1970s build detached whereas our previous semi was a period feature packed Edwardian. Bargains can be had for less fashionable looking houses if you look, in my experience.
Moving definitely. Beyond all other factors, I can't imagine having the stress of any serious building work with three kids really.
Add transaction costs (stamp duty) and try to reduce the asking price as much as possible, the 4 bed detached in a nice area would always be better to live and more valuable in the future. There are so many extended semis or terrace houses now in UK, most looking like Frankenstein to be honest, some of them will be a struggle to sell them.
Add transaction costs (stamp duty) and try to reduce the asking price as much as possible, the 4 bed detached in a nice area would always be better to live and more valuable in the future. There are so many extended semis or terrace houses now in UK, most looking like Frankenstein to be honest, some of them will be a struggle to sell them.
In my view, some houses extend better than others.
Some areas have good demand for extended houses, some do not.
Both extensions and moving are bloody expensive!
Can you live your lives better by not doing either?
Will either pay you back in the long run?
You can only evaluate it properly by looking deep into specific cases IMHO.
Some areas have good demand for extended houses, some do not.
Both extensions and moving are bloody expensive!
Can you live your lives better by not doing either?
Will either pay you back in the long run?
You can only evaluate it properly by looking deep into specific cases IMHO.
We chose extension. Under £100k has added a double storey side at 3.6m and single storey full rear extension out at 3.5m. This has given us a 4th with en suite (was a 3 bed semi) internal garage, utility, extra room downstairs (my room to escape a house full of women) and a large open plan diner. We also had a small extension to the hallway which has made a huge difference. i did a fair bit of donkey work myself so did cut a few costs but it's done to our spec and we have what we want in a house. I did it just before COVID and since then I've been on Right Move weekly as I'd always be open to changing (a bigger garden and double garage the only additional requirements). In that time I've only seen 2 or 3 properties which have seriously made me consider moving. Any house I move into, I'd still need to do work to make it my own so on top of SD and moving costs there's always additional costs included.
Consigliere said:
Didnt know wether this should be in Finance or Homes (feel free to move mods).
Current situation;
44, partner & 3 kids
3 bed semi, 2 siblings share a room, the other has a room to themself.
1 bathroom, large garden, driveway to accomodate 2 cars
currently £83k left on the mortgage, 12 years remaining.
Cons: Will need to borrow more money, around £200k (as opposed to £125k), will need to extend the mortgage term to make it manageable, higher costs in terms of gas/elec/council tax etc, dont get the layout of kitchen/diner/living we want and have to make do with what we buy.
Are you saying that if you move, you have taken into account the equity in your current place & still have to borrow £200K on top of the existing £83K left on the existing mortgage - i.e. total of £283K re-mortgage amount?Current situation;
44, partner & 3 kids
3 bed semi, 2 siblings share a room, the other has a room to themself.
1 bathroom, large garden, driveway to accomodate 2 cars
currently £83k left on the mortgage, 12 years remaining.
Cons: Will need to borrow more money, around £200k (as opposed to £125k), will need to extend the mortgage term to make it manageable, higher costs in terms of gas/elec/council tax etc, dont get the layout of kitchen/diner/living we want and have to make do with what we buy.
That's a massive jump in monthly outgoings if so,
Moving to a detached made the biggest difference for us.
Potted history......
3 bed Victorian semi - extended and loft conversion in 2008 made it 4 bed - neighbour an arse, but liveable
By 2018 we had become completely irritated by the neighbour and while he wasn't the sole reason for moving, it was a big part.
Moved to 3 bed detached in 2018 - mental wellbeing significantly improved and really understood how not being 'connected' to the next property really does make a huge difference. The extra parking is a bonus and having all the cars off the road did make a massive difference when the kids were learning.
I say move - the 4 bed detached will have more equity in the long term and eventually will give you a better platform to downsize from in the future.
Potted history......
3 bed Victorian semi - extended and loft conversion in 2008 made it 4 bed - neighbour an arse, but liveable
By 2018 we had become completely irritated by the neighbour and while he wasn't the sole reason for moving, it was a big part.
Moved to 3 bed detached in 2018 - mental wellbeing significantly improved and really understood how not being 'connected' to the next property really does make a huge difference. The extra parking is a bonus and having all the cars off the road did make a massive difference when the kids were learning.
I say move - the 4 bed detached will have more equity in the long term and eventually will give you a better platform to downsize from in the future.
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