CCTV PoE Long Run With 2 Cameras

CCTV PoE Long Run With 2 Cameras

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48k

Original Poster:

15,210 posts

163 months

Saturday 5th April
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Thinking about installing CCTV at the new gaff. Would like to put a couple of cameras on the stables which are about 70m from the house. Can that be done in one cable run or do I need a pair of cables one per camera? I've got 305m of solid copper buryable ethernet so not short of cable just sketching out where the cable runs are going to go for now. I'm OK with networky stuff and cabling but haven't set up CCTV before.

megaphone

11,226 posts

266 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
You could do it with one run, but you would need a small PoE switch at the end for the two cameras. The switch could be a PoE powered one, so no need for power at the far end.

You could always test it first before you run in the cable.

Do you need WiFi in the stables? You could also power a WiFi access point off the switch.

Another option, if you don't want to run a cable, is to put in a WiFi bridge, you would need some power at the stables end.

jimothyc

663 posts

99 months

Saturday 5th April
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The normally stated maximum for Ethernet cabling is 100m per run, so you should be fine. You can get a Poe powered switch that will pass power and connection to 2 cameras. So you could do it with the one run. However my rule of thumb is if you’re running a cable that will be difficult to access, ie buried or in a wall. Then run 2. Cable is cheap and if one fails you’ll have a back up. A double run of cable will also provide greater flexibility in how you set things up.

LooneyTunes

8,273 posts

173 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
48k said:
I've got 305m of solid copper buryable ethernet so not short of cable
Whilst you might not be short for data, depending on what you have, you might come up short on voltage.

I've got some pretty long runs around my place and have had much better success with PoE cameras when running Cat6A cable. Conductor diameter is greater than Cat5E, which seems to make a difference for long runs PoE (I suspect due to reduced resistance and voltage drop).

Pulled some new cables to my garage last week (pretty much the same distance you're talking) in order to be able to avoid having an extra switch down there but obviously there's still the option to use it.

Well worth checking the power needs of the cameras too. Some are no longer just PoE, but instead are PoE+. If it's a larger install you also need to check that the switch can support the total power demand: many won't deliver full PoE output over all of their PoE ports.

Baldchap

9,161 posts

107 months

Saturday 5th April
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You'll need power at the stable or you'll need to run one cable per camera and power via PoE.

I have a mains powered switch at my gate powering a camera, AP and a light over PoE that is a similar cable run to yours and it's flawless.

OldGermanHeaps

4,658 posts

193 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
Depending on your nvr or switch each camera can run on 2 pairs out the 4. Go orange/green for 1 cam and blue/brown for other. Pins 123 and 6 for both.
70m is absolutely fine, standard poe is fine, some nvrs and switches have an extend function for 300-600m runs at reduced bandwidth .
Or you can use a poe powered poe switch, which have been a godsend for upgrades.
https://amzn.eu/d/iSdrNQH or unifi flex mini if you want to be fancy.

LooneyTunes

8,273 posts

173 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
standard poe is fine
Depends on the camera. According to theirs spec, some of mine max out at 25W (for which you need PoE+, which is what the manufacturer states, as standard PoE delivers circa 15W.

cpszx

156 posts

172 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
Depending on your nvr or switch each camera can run on 2 pairs out the 4. Go orange/green for 1 cam and blue/brown for other. Pins 123 and 6 for both.
70m is absolutely fine, standard poe is fine, some nvrs and switches have an extend function for 300-600m runs at reduced bandwidth .
Or you can use a poe powered poe switch, which have been a godsend for upgrades.
https://amzn.eu/d/iSdrNQH or unifi flex mini if you want to be fancy.
You can’t do that with POE, as it runs on the blue/brown pairs.


OldGermanHeaps

4,658 posts

193 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
There are 2 types of active poe, midspan and endspan. Nearly all decent switches support both. Nearly all decent cameras support both. Some nvrs require all 4 pairs, but even 20 quid poe switches support both.
That is ignoring the various types of passive poe, but they are non standard and not generally used for cameras.
If pulling fresh cable just do 2 runs though dont be a cheapskate.
The other methods are handy for additions after the fact, but with a clean slate fresh install run 2. Armoured would be better, wildlife finds a way of destroying standard external cat6, its delicious apparently.

48k

Original Poster:

15,210 posts

163 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
Thanks for all the info and advice. The cable is external Cat6a - the gel filled mucky one not armoured so I'll throw it in some conduit and do two runs to be safe. There is power at the stables so I have options.

OldGermanHeaps

4,658 posts

193 months

Saturday 5th April
quotequote all
Stick it in some 20 or 25mm conduit, i have found if you use 50 or 75 twinwall then rodents find their way inside and chew it. They find the plasticiser in the insulation yummy.
If you must use bigger twinwall use sealing bags at either end

megaphone

11,226 posts

266 months

Sunday 6th April
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48k said:
Thanks for all the info and advice. The cable is external Cat6a - the gel filled mucky one not armoured so I'll throw it in some conduit and do two runs to be safe. There is power at the stables so I have options.
If there's power at the stables then I'd use a wifi bridge and save a lot of work.

If you do want to run cables then as I mentioned above, test it all before you run them in, just put some ends on the cable and see that everything works.


CAT6a is a PITA to terminate, you'll be better off terminating in a punch down jack socket. Pity you've already got the cable, standard CAT6 would have been a better choice.


Edited by megaphone on Sunday 6th April 10:03

48k

Original Poster:

15,210 posts

163 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
Next question - any top tips for pulling long cable runs in conduit? Tie cable to cable rods and use Fairy Liquid as lube ?

Chipstick

355 posts

55 months

Monday 7th April
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48k said:
Next question - any top tips for pulling long cable runs in conduit? Tie cable to cable rods and use Fairy Liquid as lube ?
If using 20/25mm conduit in 3m lengths I'd run the conduit down the cable and join it as I went before lowering in to the trench. If you've got cable rods then yeah make a ~3m long one up but if not then two cables taped together would have enough body to have some 3m conduit sections twisted down them individually and slid to the other end as they wouldn't really have room to scrunch up at that run length.

Edited by Chipstick on Monday 7th April 09:40

LooneyTunes

8,273 posts

173 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
megaphone said:
CAT6a is a PITA to terminate, you'll be better off terminating in a punch down jack socket.
It's dead easy to do with tool-less jacks: the Excel ones are great.

48k said:
Next question - any top tips for pulling long cable runs in conduit? Tie cable to cable rods and use Fairy Liquid as lube ?
Lay/route the conduit well: use larger diameter conduit rather than smaller, minimise the number of bends, keep bend radius high. Where you often run up against issues when it's laid underground is the bend radius where it goes under/emerges (people often make that too tight).

If there's only one or two cables, tape well to a decent nylon draw rope and you'll be fine.

You can use the likes of Yellow 77 as lube but rarely need to. We pulled 6x gel Cat6A down 70m 110mm duct the other day without any lube. Single pull but using a sock around them instead of just taped.

Mr Pointy

12,556 posts

174 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
48k said:
Next question - any top tips for pulling long cable runs in conduit? Tie cable to cable rods and use Fairy Liquid as lube ?
If you're trying to do a single 70m pull with no mid point then I'd suggest not going for 25mm conduit as the drag may get pretty high. Put in a hefty (4mm ish) nylon pull rope if you don't have access to a proper pulling wire/rod. If you want the pull wire to be used in the future you'll need it twice as long as the duct of course.

megaphone

11,226 posts

266 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
LooneyTunes said:
megaphone said:
CAT6a is a PITA to terminate, you'll be better off terminating in a punch down jack socket.
It's dead easy to do with tool-less jacks: the Excel ones are great.

48k said:
Next question - any top tips for pulling long cable runs in conduit? Tie cable to cable rods and use Fairy Liquid as lube ?
Lay/route the conduit well: use larger diameter conduit rather than smaller, minimise the number of bends, keep bend radius high. Where you often run up against issues when it's laid underground is the bend radius where it goes under/emerges (people often make that too tight).

If there's only one or two cables, tape well to a decent nylon draw rope and you'll be fine.

You can use the likes of Yellow 77 as lube but rarely need to. We pulled 6x gel Cat6A down 70m 110mm duct the other day without any lube. Single pull but using a sock around them instead of just taped.
You'll struggle to get the Excel ones into the back of a camera, or into a weather proof fly lead. And they're not that good, I get connection issues when the cables move around. I've swapped loads for crimp on.

megaphone

11,226 posts

266 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
OP are you burying the cables? I use blue MDPE water pipe for my underground runs, it's tough and easy to pull cables through. Not very flexible though so only good for straightish runs.

LooneyTunes

8,273 posts

173 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
megaphone said:
You'll struggle to get the Excel ones into the back of a camera, or into a weather proof fly lead. And they're not that good, I get connection issues when the cables move around. I've swapped loads for crimp on.
I'd agree, they're not for direct connection to form a flying lead. Had assumed the OP would be terminating into an RJ45 in a weatherproof box and then running to the camera with a patch cable. If he does want it continuous then it's definitely a crimp job. Haven't had any issues with the Excel tool-less when they're in a box or rack frame.

megaphone said:
OP are you burying the cables? I use blue MDPE water pipe for my underground runs, it's tough and easy to pull cables through. Not very flexible though so only good for straightish runs.
For 70 metres that's going to be tough going. We pulled a single electric fence supply cable (similar diameter to a gel filled Cat6A) through approx. 50-70m of 32mm MDPE. It wasn't fun.

OldGermanHeaps

4,658 posts

193 months

Monday 7th April
quotequote all
Hoover on one end of conduit.
Tie drawstring to plastic bag or similar.
Insert into opposite end of conduit.