garden wall building - structural survey
Discussion
wallgate pt2.
I have an old garden wall I'd like to build up.
neighbour has okayed it, but want a guarantee from builder that it's safe.
I guess it's about 5ft, we would take up to 6ft/200cm.
It's an old wall that is 1/2 brick thick with piers, on a solid single-brick first few courses. On top of that has been built about 2ft of modern bricks. we'd add a third stratum of bricks to bring it up to a sane/normal height. I know loads of you will say this won't match but I don't care that it won't match.
where would I go to get a properly qualified structural engineer to report on this wall? I don't want a whole house, I don't want to pay several hundred or thousands of pounds... (I know that everyone will look at the guidelines and say the wall should be 2 bricks wide for 6ft. so we'd be pulling down the original wall??what I want is someone to calculate whether what's proposed is safe and/or propose how to do it safely).
I have a 100 year old 1/2 brick thick 9ft wall on the other side and that is just fine. it runs for 800m... (luckily just the 20m for the job I am talking about) )
I have an old garden wall I'd like to build up.
neighbour has okayed it, but want a guarantee from builder that it's safe.
I guess it's about 5ft, we would take up to 6ft/200cm.
It's an old wall that is 1/2 brick thick with piers, on a solid single-brick first few courses. On top of that has been built about 2ft of modern bricks. we'd add a third stratum of bricks to bring it up to a sane/normal height. I know loads of you will say this won't match but I don't care that it won't match.
where would I go to get a properly qualified structural engineer to report on this wall? I don't want a whole house, I don't want to pay several hundred or thousands of pounds... (I know that everyone will look at the guidelines and say the wall should be 2 bricks wide for 6ft. so we'd be pulling down the original wall??what I want is someone to calculate whether what's proposed is safe and/or propose how to do it safely).
I have a 100 year old 1/2 brick thick 9ft wall on the other side and that is just fine. it runs for 800m... (luckily just the 20m for the job I am talking about) )
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Tuesday 25th March 11:33
sherman said:
It looks like a good shove would have that over. As the neighbour on the other side I would not be happy with the structure that high and unsupported.
Even if OP added a small fence on top instead of brickwork I think it would still significantly increase the risk of blowing over in the wind.PlywoodPascal said:
where would I go to get a properly qualified structural engineer to report on this wall?
PlywoodPascal said:
lwhat I want is someone to calculate whether what's proposed is safe and/or propose how to do it safely).
Not wishing to state the obvious, but this is exactly what a structural engineer will do. They will assess the existing structure and then compete calculations that amongst other things consider its stability. Search out your local practice and then ask them who much they would charge for what you want from themPlywoodPascal said:
it but want a guarantee from builder that it's safe.
A builder will not be able to guarantee the above, as they will not have the expertise to do the calculations. They might be able to comment based on past experience but I doubt any will give you such guarantees without input from an engineer.PlywoodPascal said:
Ok.
The thing is standard specs for 2m wall is 1.5 bricks, they’ll just say pull it down and rebuild, I guess. Which will several £k.
There’s no such thing as standard specs. Yes there’s design guidance which assumes a worst case scenario based on the least favourable condition but an engineer will assess the actual circumstance and design of your particular wall, if they don’t and just say it doesn’t meet a standard spec they found after 5 minutes on Google then they’re pretty crap as an engineer.The thing is standard specs for 2m wall is 1.5 bricks, they’ll just say pull it down and rebuild, I guess. Which will several £k.
There’s plenty of ways to make a narrow wall more stable, including piers, buttressing and bed joint reinforcement. None of which the standard guides consider in detail.
Edited by smokey mow on Sunday 23 March 17:40
Go to a structural engineer.
Or if you don’t want to pay for one you could look at these and come to your own conclusions -
https://www.academia.edu/27699233/Structure_Free_S...
https://bregroup.com/store/bookshop/building-simpl...
Or if you don’t want to pay for one you could look at these and come to your own conclusions -
https://www.academia.edu/27699233/Structure_Free_S...
https://bregroup.com/store/bookshop/building-simpl...
thank you nute.
that is very useful.
I'm scientific enough to have been able to have worked through.
I'm thinking now the best solution is to build the wall up to its current full height as a 1 brick wall, and then run a lightweight/wind-permeable fence panel along the top, on posts mounted into the wall. the structural calculations show that at the current height the wall should be 1 brick wide anyway (if it was without pillars).
I have checked the foundation and it is sound and substantial so no concerns over the extra mass.
the only question I have is - what's the best way to tie the existing single course of bricks into the new one built behind it? is that necessary?
that is very useful.
I'm scientific enough to have been able to have worked through.
I'm thinking now the best solution is to build the wall up to its current full height as a 1 brick wall, and then run a lightweight/wind-permeable fence panel along the top, on posts mounted into the wall. the structural calculations show that at the current height the wall should be 1 brick wide anyway (if it was without pillars).
I have checked the foundation and it is sound and substantial so no concerns over the extra mass.
the only question I have is - what's the best way to tie the existing single course of bricks into the new one built behind it? is that necessary?
If just adding a second skin then you'd use the appropriate number of wall ties and a coping to keep the weather out.
Single skin to 6' if the foundation is solid (just dig down to see exactly what you've got in a couple of places) but you'd probably want to ensure you have enough piers along the length to enable the wall to stand up to things like wind forces etc.
At the end of the day a structural engineer would be a sensible spend but might not tell you what you'd ideally like to hear.
Their report and work done to their spec should also ensure you remain covered by insurance etc.
Have you contemplated just putting a nice 6' fence in along your side of the wall as that might be the cheapest and easiest solution and give a uniform look etc?
Single skin to 6' if the foundation is solid (just dig down to see exactly what you've got in a couple of places) but you'd probably want to ensure you have enough piers along the length to enable the wall to stand up to things like wind forces etc.
At the end of the day a structural engineer would be a sensible spend but might not tell you what you'd ideally like to hear.
Their report and work done to their spec should also ensure you remain covered by insurance etc.
Have you contemplated just putting a nice 6' fence in along your side of the wall as that might be the cheapest and easiest solution and give a uniform look etc?
DonkeyApple said:
If just adding a second skin then you'd use the appropriate number of wall ties and a coping to keep the weather out.
Single skin to 6' if the foundation is solid (just dig down to see exactly what you've got in a couple of places) but you'd probably want to ensure you have enough piers along the length to enable the wall to stand up to things like wind forces etc.
At the end of the day a structural engineer would be a sensible spend but might not tell you what you'd ideally like to hear.
Their report and work done to their spec should also ensure you remain covered by insurance etc.
Have you contemplated just putting a nice 6' fence in along your side of the wall as that might be the cheapest and easiest solution and give a uniform look etc?
yes we've thought about it a lot, the thing is we are nervous of the boundary implications of doing that, it's not a party/shared wall, it's our wall. Single skin to 6' if the foundation is solid (just dig down to see exactly what you've got in a couple of places) but you'd probably want to ensure you have enough piers along the length to enable the wall to stand up to things like wind forces etc.
At the end of the day a structural engineer would be a sensible spend but might not tell you what you'd ideally like to hear.
Their report and work done to their spec should also ensure you remain covered by insurance etc.
Have you contemplated just putting a nice 6' fence in along your side of the wall as that might be the cheapest and easiest solution and give a uniform look etc?
PlywoodPascal said:
thank you nute.
that is very useful.
I'm scientific enough to have been able to have worked through.
I'm thinking now the best solution is to build the wall up to its current full height as a 1 brick wall, and then run a lightweight/wind-permeable fence panel along the top, on posts mounted into the wall. the structural calculations show that at the current height the wall should be 1 brick wide anyway (if it was without pillars).
I have checked the foundation and it is sound and substantial so no concerns over the extra mass.
the only question I have is - what's the best way to tie the existing single course of bricks into the new one built behind it? is that necessary?
When you say 1 brick wide, do you mean 100mm or 215mm. One brick is 215mm.that is very useful.
I'm scientific enough to have been able to have worked through.
I'm thinking now the best solution is to build the wall up to its current full height as a 1 brick wall, and then run a lightweight/wind-permeable fence panel along the top, on posts mounted into the wall. the structural calculations show that at the current height the wall should be 1 brick wide anyway (if it was without pillars).
I have checked the foundation and it is sound and substantial so no concerns over the extra mass.
the only question I have is - what's the best way to tie the existing single course of bricks into the new one built behind it? is that necessary?
I wouldn't be putting any fence onto a 100mm thick wall.
Edited to add: I see from your OP that the lower portion is 215mm.
Edited by spitfire-ian on Tuesday 25th March 17:17
spitfire-ian said:
When you say 1 brick wide, do you mean 100mm or 215mm. One brick is 215mm.
I wouldn't be putting any fence onto a 100mm thick wall.
Edited to add: I see from your OP that the lower portion is 215mm.
yes exactly, I mean 215mm, one brick wide I wouldn't be putting any fence onto a 100mm thick wall.
Edited to add: I see from your OP that the lower portion is 215mm.
Edited by spitfire-ian on Tuesday 25th March 17:17
(If you've already got a wall it's hard to modify it to 1/2 a brick wide
)
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