Do black uPVC windows fade?

[AlexC1981]

And if so, how significant is it? Can they be kept presentable with a wipe over with WD40 every couple of years? Does this itself deteriorate them long term?

I fancy black frames with diamond lead. I have been looking at houses and I haven't seen any that look faded. I have seen quite a number of composite front doors that look pretty bad, however I'm not sure if black foil coated uPVC would go the same way.

Thanks!

[Mr Pointy]

They would get very hot wouldn't they? I know some darker coloured doors have issues with warping in the summer.

[JerryEXE]

We’ve got anthracite grey frames and over a period of less than 10 years they faded really badly. (There was some discussion amongst neighbours that the developer cleaned them with an inappropriate solvent but this was never proved … but if true is a good warning to be careful of what you clean them with). They were so bad I repainted them with one of the specialist uPVC paints available and they are now like new again. A couple of before and after pics below

[PlywoodPascal]

the white ones 'fade' (look closely, the surface gets oxidised, dull, 'cloudy'). there is no doubt black ones will too, if not faster than definitely more obviously.
the thing is, paint fades too.

UPVC Windows are a solution to a problem (cracking paint, rotting frames) that was manufactured by modern paints - that try to seal out water from the wood, but inevitably mechanically fail, leading to small cracks through which water gets in faster than it gets out. the result is rotten wood.

the "solution" to that is simply to do what was being done all along before. make window frames from wood. Don't paint or otherwise try to seal the wood, oil it instead. If you do paint, do it in a real moisture permeable paint. it will need repainting every 5-10 years. The windows will last 100 years+, not the 10-20 of modern uPVC windows. and we wonder why the environment is so screwed.

Edited by PlywoodPascal on Sunday 23 March 12:04

[AlexC1981]

That looks really bad! Considering how many houses you see with dark grey windows these days, there doesn't seem to be much discussion about fading online.

I suppose white is always going to be the safe option.

[J6542]

AlexC1981 said:

That looks really bad! Considering how many houses you see with dark grey windows these days, there doesn't seem to be much discussion about fading online.

I suppose white is always going to be the safe option.

All coloured upvc will fade a little, nothing like the pictures posted above.
My guess with the above pics is that the developer left the protective tape on for to long after installation, and then had to use an aggressive cleaner to remove it. Since the tape reacts to UV and is a nightmare to remove if left to long.

[Little Lofty]

Lots of products available now for this problem, composite doors are worse than windows.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Owatrol-Polytrol-Colour-R...

[JerryEXE]

J6542 said:

All coloured upvc will fade a little, nothing like the pictures posted above.
My guess with the above pics is that the developer left the protective tape on for to long after installation, and then had to use an aggressive cleaner to remove it. Since the tape reacts to UV and is a nightmare to remove if left to long.

I (and some of the neighbours) think you are probably right about the aggressive cleaner but the developer was never going to admit to that.

I guess my photos show an absolute worst case scenario … but also show that it can be fixed fairly easily by an amateur DIYer if so inclined.

[21TonyK]

Little Lofty said:

Lots of products available now for this problem, composite doors are worse than windows.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Owatrol-Polytrol-Colour-R...

Going a bit OT but anyone know how this compares to Gtechniq C4?

[DonkeyApple]

PlywoodPascal said:

the white ones 'fade' (look closely, the surface gets oxidised, dull, 'cloudy'). there is no doubt black ones will too, if not faster than definitely more obviously.
the thing is, paint fades too.

UPVC Windows are a solution to a problem (cracking paint, rotting frames) that was manufactured by modern paints - that try to seal out water from the wood, but inevitably mechanically fail, leading to small cracks through which water gets in faster than it gets out. the result is rotten wood.

the "solution" to that is simply to do what was being done all along before. make window frames from wood. Don't paint or otherwise try to seal the wood, oil it instead. If you do paint, do it in a real moisture permeable paint. it will need repainting every 5-10 years. The windows will last 100 years+, not the 10-20 of modern uPVC windows. and we wonder why the environment is so screwed.

Edited by PlywoodPascal on Sunday 23 March 12:04

What helped to kill wood windows was that the industry decided to use balsa wood at a time when home owners went 'L'Oreal' with their lives.

Your logic is infallible bar the fact that the average home owner isn't going to be oiling the wood any more than they were going to be painting it. The odds of proper wood windows surviving multiple modern home owners are very long indeed. And once the average U.K. home owner hits 60 they appear to not only stop all maintenance but all care.

You only need to go hunting for a nice house to find that almost any home being sold by someone of age is fked.

So do you pay for high quality, hardwood windows that will easily last 100 years or accept that they will almost certainly be destroyed by one of the owners who comes after you, the direct next owner won't be over bidding for the quality windows or do you go for the option that is half the price and will see you out?

At a guess I'd say that over my home buying life I've maybe spent approaching £200k on replacing windows screwed by non maintenance with top quality steels or hardwood. The house I am in now requires new windows due to that classic over 60s non maintenance regime the U.K. now loves. But for the first time I find myself considering plastic. It's half the price and I'm only going to be here for 10-15 years and I'm really bored of buying other people top quality windows which they then don't look after.

[PlywoodPascal]

DonkeyApple said:

What helped to kill wood windows was that the industry decided to use balsa wood at a time when home owners went 'L'Oreal' with their lives.

Your logic is infallible bar the fact that the average home owner isn't going to be oiling the wood any more than they were going to be painting it. The odds of proper wood windows surviving multiple modern home owners are very long indeed. And once the average U.K. home owner hits 60 they appear to not only stop all maintenance but all care.

You only need to go hunting for a nice house to find that almost any home being sold by someone of age is fked.

So do you pay for high quality, hardwood windows that will easily last 100 years or accept that they will almost certainly be destroyed by one of the owners who comes after you, the direct next owner won't be over bidding for the quality windows or do you go for the option that is half the price and will see you out?

At a guess I'd say that over my home buying life I've maybe spent approaching £200k on replacing windows screwed by non maintenance with top quality steels or hardwood. The house I am in now requires new windows due to that classic over 60s non maintenance regime the U.K. now loves. But for the first time I find myself considering plastic. It's half the price and I'm only going to be here for 10-15 years and I'm really bored of buying other people top quality windows which they then don't look after.

firstly, I must say, thank you for your appreciation of my logic. logic itself is a rare enough thing here on PH, appreciation for it even more so.

But... don't do it DA, your old age is not the time to compromise your principles, formed over a long and, from the sounds of it, extremely well-fenestrated life.
think of this final building as your legacy, your definitive lucency, the ultimate illumination, your final glassy gesture.
but now I read again, maybe you are moving house in 10-15 years rather than moving on. whichever, you know what is right.

[AlexC1981]

21TonyK said:

Little Lofty said:

Lots of products available now for this problem, composite doors are worse than windows.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Owatrol-Polytrol-Colour-R...

Going a bit OT but anyone know how this compares to Gtechniq C4?

And would it work on black foiled frames?

I've been looking at lots of grey framed office buildings as I walked around town today. Admittedly they were aluminium, but most of them looked rather tired.

[J6542]

AlexC1981 said:

21TonyK said:

Little Lofty said:

Lots of products available now for this problem, composite doors are worse than windows.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Owatrol-Polytrol-Colour-R...

Going a bit OT but anyone know how this compares to Gtechniq C4?

And would it work on black foiled frames?

I've been looking at lots of grey framed office buildings as I walked around town today. Admittedly they were aluminium, but most of them looked rather tired.

They are probably covered in traffic film and need a good clean to bring back their shine

[Little Lofty]

AlexC1981 said:

And would it work on black foiled frames?

I've been looking at lots of grey framed office buildings as I walked around town today. Admittedly they were aluminium, but most of them looked rather tired.

It works on brown woodgrain foil windows so I’d imagine it works on any colour. I used it on a black composite door and red up and over garage door, both came up well, it doesn't last forever though.

[OutInTheShed]

DonkeyApple said:

What helped to kill wood windows was that the industry decided to use balsa wood at a time when home owners went 'L'Oreal' with their lives.

Your logic is infallible bar the fact that the average home owner isn't going to be oiling the wood any more than they were going to be painting it. The odds of proper wood windows surviving multiple modern home owners are very long indeed. And once the average U.K. home owner hits 60 they appear to not only stop all maintenance but all care.

You only need to go hunting for a nice house to find that almost any home being sold by someone of age is fked.

So do you pay for high quality, hardwood windows that will easily last 100 years or accept that they will almost certainly be destroyed by one of the owners who comes after you, the direct next owner won't be over bidding for the quality windows or do you go for the option that is half the price and will see you out?

At a guess I'd say that over my home buying life I've maybe spent approaching £200k on replacing windows screwed by non maintenance with top quality steels or hardwood. The house I am in now requires new windows due to that classic over 60s non maintenance regime the U.K. now loves. But for the first time I find myself considering plastic. It's half the price and I'm only going to be here for 10-15 years and I'm really bored of buying other people top quality windows which they then don't look after.

Wooden windows used to be better, due to quality of timber.
Also I suspect, being glazed with white lead putty and painted with lead-based paints may have helped?
A lot of wooden windows rot from the indoor side, due to warmth and condensation.
Old tech needs old styles of use, like open fires keeping the house ventilated?

The other thing is, old houses in may areas had the windows set back into the wall out of the rain more?
My first house had new-ish wooden windows on the south-facing frontage. Cheap softwood. I did them with wood preserver and left-over yacht paint.
Looked OK years later.

[Mr Pointy]

Little Lofty said:

AlexC1981 said:

And would it work on black foiled frames?

I've been looking at lots of grey framed office buildings as I walked around town today. Admittedly they were aluminium, but most of them looked rather tired.

It works on brown woodgrain foil windows so I’d imagine it works on any colour. I used it on a black composite door and red up and over garage door, both came up well, it doesn't last forever though.

Any suggestions for renovating yellowed trim on a composite door?

[Little Lofty]

Mr Pointy said:

Any suggestions for renovating yellowed trim on a composite door?

A roll of masking and a spray can of white.