Bat survey required?
Discussion
Is there anyone that's in the know or with experience with the likelihood of needing a bat survey for a garage extension.
6m x 6m metre stand alone garage currently, 4.7m to the apex of the roof and within 1m of the boundary so I'll need planning to extend it. I'd like to make it 3m longer so lengthening the roof rather than removing the old one and widening it).
Would I need a bat survey to go with the plans though? Is there any financial penalties if I submit without or is it just a time penalty as they'd request one and then have to wait for it to be provided?
Cheers.
6m x 6m metre stand alone garage currently, 4.7m to the apex of the roof and within 1m of the boundary so I'll need planning to extend it. I'd like to make it 3m longer so lengthening the roof rather than removing the old one and widening it).
Would I need a bat survey to go with the plans though? Is there any financial penalties if I submit without or is it just a time penalty as they'd request one and then have to wait for it to be provided?
Cheers.
I don’t know, but given the costs and potential delays of doing a bar survey (they can only be done at certain times of the year), I’d be inclined to put in for permission and see what they ask for. It will all be context dependent, given there’s already buildings there, there’s always a chance you won’t need one.
I think the town planning dept will tell you if a bat survey is required when you submit for planning permission.
Or maybe they won't:
We did a bungalow conversion and rebuilt a double garage a couple of years ago. The planning officer got it a bit arse about face, as they stated we needed a bat licence as one of the conditions when they granted planning permission. A bat licence is required when it has been confirmed there are bats. They should have asked us to do a bat survey earlier in the process. We did a survey after pointing out we couldn't get a bat licence without one.
In the end there were no bats, and we didn't need a licence.
Good luck.
Or maybe they won't:
We did a bungalow conversion and rebuilt a double garage a couple of years ago. The planning officer got it a bit arse about face, as they stated we needed a bat licence as one of the conditions when they granted planning permission. A bat licence is required when it has been confirmed there are bats. They should have asked us to do a bat survey earlier in the process. We did a survey after pointing out we couldn't get a bat licence without one.
In the end there were no bats, and we didn't need a licence.
Good luck.
Simpo Two said:
It can't take very long to see if a double garage has bats in it...
Which is why I don't want to pay £4-600 if o don't have too!If there's no extra cost from the planning side for not submitting one originally then I'm happy to just get one when/if they ask.
The planning guidance says you'll need one if you are significantly modifying the roof, in my opinion I'm barely touching what's already there, I'm just adding extra on the end!
A friend is trying to build an extension, plans went in Sept 24, he chased and chased, but as they are trying to buy time they have told him they now want a bat survey. The house is in the middle of 1970’s housing estate, bats around there are as rare as hens teeth, total joke, and they say they want to build millions of new homes, absolutely no chance.
RacingStripes said:
Which is why I don't want to pay £4-600 if o don't have too!
If there's no extra cost from the planning side for not submitting one originally then I'm happy to just get one when/if they ask.
The planning guidance says you'll need one if you are significantly modifying the roof, in my opinion I'm barely touching what's already there, I'm just adding extra on the end!
I'm afraid bat survey costs are at least double that, so just apply with the relevant drawings and the planning authority will tell you if one is required. If the garage is presently in use and is fully enclosed, I doubt one will be required. FYI bat surveys will usually be completed May to September.If there's no extra cost from the planning side for not submitting one originally then I'm happy to just get one when/if they ask.
The planning guidance says you'll need one if you are significantly modifying the roof, in my opinion I'm barely touching what's already there, I'm just adding extra on the end!
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 8th March 20:31
RATATTAK said:
RacingStripes said:
Which is why I don't want to pay £4-600 if o don't have too!
If there's no extra cost from the planning side for not submitting one originally then I'm happy to just get one when/if they ask.
The planning guidance says you'll need one if you are significantly modifying the roof, in my opinion I'm barely touching what's already there, I'm just adding extra on the end!
I'm afraid bat survey costs are at least double thatIf there's no extra cost from the planning side for not submitting one originally then I'm happy to just get one when/if they ask.
The planning guidance says you'll need one if you are significantly modifying the roof, in my opinion I'm barely touching what's already there, I'm just adding extra on the end!
AFAIK bat surveys are in two bits - firstly they look at the building to see if wildlife entry is possible, and secondly, if entry is possible, a second survey is required to see if the bats use the building for roosting or simply for feeding.
I have been quoted £670+VAT for the initial survey. In the recent past, my clients have paid over £1000 for the second survey.
ETA Environmental surveys are now a big part of any planning application. For big read expensive ...
I have been quoted £670+VAT for the initial survey. In the recent past, my clients have paid over £1000 for the second survey.
ETA Environmental surveys are now a big part of any planning application. For big read expensive ...
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 8th March 21:40
RATATTAK said:
I'm afraid bat survey costs are at least double that, so just apply with the relevant drawings and the planning authority will tell you if one is required. If the garage is presently in use and is fully enclosed, I doubt one will be required. FYI bat surveys will usually be completed May to September.
Our architect said that in his area they would 100% ask for a preliminary roost assessment and would generally cost £600. A bit of googling suggests their may be places doing them "from" £399. For £600 I expect them to come and stay the night and spend 2 solid days searching...Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 8th March 20:31
He isn't sure what our council is like though so unsure if they would ask or not. Oddly, I put 2 extensions on my last house in 2020 in an area that comes under a 3rd council and it was never even mentioned by them. So this being the first time I've ever heard of it being a think for most Planning Permissions.
Edited by RacingStripes on Sunday 9th March 00:05
RATATTAK said:
AFAIK bat surveys are in two bits - firstly they look at the building to see if wildlife entry is possible, and secondly, if entry is possible, a second survey is required to see if the bats use the building for roosting or simply for feeding.
I have been quoted £670+VAT for the initial survey. In the recent past, my clients have paid over £1000 for the second survey.
ETA Environmental surveys are now a big part of any planning application. For big read expensive ...
How about 'There are no bats. I killed them all'?I have been quoted £670+VAT for the initial survey. In the recent past, my clients have paid over £1000 for the second survey.
ETA Environmental surveys are now a big part of any planning application. For big read expensive ...
You can do an initial roost assessment at any time of year. That’s someone turning up checking if there are signs of bats (in a loft that would be looking for droppings etc) or of it is likely somewhere bats would roost.
If you need a Bat Survey that’s summer time and normally is three surveys….at dawn and dusk. I think May to September. Bat surveys consist of people sitting in your garden in a deck chair counting bats.
In short go for planning, if you need a bat survey they will probably make the planning subject to bat assessment/surveys if they think you’ll need them.
Your problem is if you go for a bat assessment you might end up with someone looking to monetise the situation and say you need a survey.
It is an absolute racket. We’ve just been through this whole process with a roof being replaced/repaired….old house, we knew we had bats. The bats were about 20% of the total cost of the roof work (it’s a big roof). As a result of the work we had two bat boxes put up and four or five bat tiles put in the roof. I reckon we spent about £200 on “bat habitat”….the bat police cost many, many multiples of that.
If you need a Bat Survey that’s summer time and normally is three surveys….at dawn and dusk. I think May to September. Bat surveys consist of people sitting in your garden in a deck chair counting bats.
In short go for planning, if you need a bat survey they will probably make the planning subject to bat assessment/surveys if they think you’ll need them.
Your problem is if you go for a bat assessment you might end up with someone looking to monetise the situation and say you need a survey.
It is an absolute racket. We’ve just been through this whole process with a roof being replaced/repaired….old house, we knew we had bats. The bats were about 20% of the total cost of the roof work (it’s a big roof). As a result of the work we had two bat boxes put up and four or five bat tiles put in the roof. I reckon we spent about £200 on “bat habitat”….the bat police cost many, many multiples of that.
Edited by Cheib on Sunday 9th March 10:48
I’m currently looking a a scheme where the client got planning circa 20 years ago, but only built out half of the units, meaning that, technically, the plannng is still valid for the remainder.
But what shocked me was that the approved planning documents only consisted of a few files - block plan, plans, elevations, a design and access statement and that was about it - and there were just the very basic set of conditions attached to it.
Comparing that to a new resi scheme I’m working on, which is of a comparable size, and it’s a different world: flood risk report, drainage strategy, transport assessment, landscape and visual impact assessment, ecology, bat surveys, the list goes on and on. Then there were a long list of quite complex conditions…
I’m not saying these things aren’t important, but we do need to find some balance, or it’s just going to get harder (and more expensive) to build.
But what shocked me was that the approved planning documents only consisted of a few files - block plan, plans, elevations, a design and access statement and that was about it - and there were just the very basic set of conditions attached to it.
Comparing that to a new resi scheme I’m working on, which is of a comparable size, and it’s a different world: flood risk report, drainage strategy, transport assessment, landscape and visual impact assessment, ecology, bat surveys, the list goes on and on. Then there were a long list of quite complex conditions…
I’m not saying these things aren’t important, but we do need to find some balance, or it’s just going to get harder (and more expensive) to build.
Check your LPA's (Local Planning Authority) validation requirements, they all have them.
In that document it will state what docs/reports/etc are required to support an application, with different requirements depending on the application type.
I did have a small project under Stafford BC, they wanted a bat survey but their validation requirements didn't state it was required for a domestic extension, so ti was pointed out to them and they didn't get one (subsequently approved).
Demolition is a 'normal' trigger, I had a project for demolition of a bungalow and build two houses, bat survey carried out with no evidence of bats. County ecologist wanted a nocturnal survey... another £600 and guess what... there were no bats...
In that document it will state what docs/reports/etc are required to support an application, with different requirements depending on the application type.
I did have a small project under Stafford BC, they wanted a bat survey but their validation requirements didn't state it was required for a domestic extension, so ti was pointed out to them and they didn't get one (subsequently approved).
Demolition is a 'normal' trigger, I had a project for demolition of a bungalow and build two houses, bat survey carried out with no evidence of bats. County ecologist wanted a nocturnal survey... another £600 and guess what... there were no bats...
andya7 said:
Check your LPA's (Local Planning Authority) validation requirements, they all have them.
In that document it will state what docs/reports/etc are required to support an application, with different requirements depending on the application type.
I did have a small project under Stafford BC, they wanted a bat survey but their validation requirements didn't state it was required for a domestic extension, so ti was pointed out to them and they didn't get one (subsequently approved).
Demolition is a 'normal' trigger, I had a project for demolition of a bungalow and build two houses, bat survey carried out with no evidence of bats. County ecologist wanted a nocturnal survey... another £600 and guess what... there were no bats...
The only reference to Bats in information requirements and validation checklist says this:In that document it will state what docs/reports/etc are required to support an application, with different requirements depending on the application type.
I did have a small project under Stafford BC, they wanted a bat survey but their validation requirements didn't state it was required for a domestic extension, so ti was pointed out to them and they didn't get one (subsequently approved).
Demolition is a 'normal' trigger, I had a project for demolition of a bungalow and build two houses, bat survey carried out with no evidence of bats. County ecologist wanted a nocturnal survey... another £600 and guess what... there were no bats...
"Where a proposal involves the demolition of a structure or significant alterations to the roof and/or loft space or the conversion of an agricultural building then the application must be accompanied by a bat survey report. Trees to be removed or significantly pruned must also be surveyed for bat roost potential. Bat surveys can therefore be required on applications that do not require an EcIA."
So I'm guessing it's wether they class adding 3m onto the end of a 6m roof is a significant alteration. I'd class it as an addition, with the original roof being barely altered...
You need a bat survey when within x metres of woodland or water.
In my area ( Elmbridge ) they are required by the majority of applications. If you don't have one the application will not validate.
Just because the validate does not mean it is not required. My neighbours had this ( stupid architect ).
Look at some local applications. You will rapidly see if they all have surveys or not.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bats-advice-for-making...
In my area ( Elmbridge ) they are required by the majority of applications. If you don't have one the application will not validate.
Just because the validate does not mean it is not required. My neighbours had this ( stupid architect ).
Look at some local applications. You will rapidly see if they all have surveys or not.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bats-advice-for-making...
Edited by Jeremy-75qq8 on Sunday 9th March 14:20
We had an extension built 8 years ago. There are bats in the area, We are about 80m from a lake and see bats outside in the evening/night. No bat survey required back then. The location was a steelworks, closed in 1980 and very nicely re landscaped plus about 150 houses built on what was outlying land within the works, not the main buildings.
There is one old building still left but about 400m away that is now listed and has bats roosting. No plans to do anything with it and it is fenced off.
My son spent some time with "bat experts" as part of his zoology degree and started to get licensing but drifted away from it.
My sil is a planner with the County Council and running a big project. The early planning involved a LOT of surveys as it was old industrial land. Contamination, wildlife etc. There's a lake there with otters. This added to the checks.
There is one old building still left but about 400m away that is now listed and has bats roosting. No plans to do anything with it and it is fenced off.
My son spent some time with "bat experts" as part of his zoology degree and started to get licensing but drifted away from it.
My sil is a planner with the County Council and running a big project. The early planning involved a LOT of surveys as it was old industrial land. Contamination, wildlife etc. There's a lake there with otters. This added to the checks.
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