Moving house- survey question
Discussion
We are in the process of moving house (selling and buying). I would like to hear the collective wisdom of those on here.
The house we are buying is in great condition and has been well-maintained. I say this for a number of reasons, such as soffits, facias, guttering etc all look quite new (or frequently cleaned), the owner has recently had dry verge caps put on too. The owner has lived in the house for 20+ years too, so the condition of the house suggests that he has kept on top of any issues.
Now, the house was built in the 1970s. The roof looks good and there is a flat roof over the garage which looks fairly recent (I will ask how recent). Having had quotes for surveys, I'm now starting to ponder whether it's a waste of money or not. Clearly, there could be some shocking underlying issues but the chances of this seem very slim. I do know that not having a survey is a risk.
What are the thoughts on here? I wouldn't even be asking if the house was much older (the house we're selling is 1920s) or if the house hadn't been touched in 20 years, but neither are the case here. Our two previous purchases had surveys and I didn't find the information surprising or useful.
The house we are buying is in great condition and has been well-maintained. I say this for a number of reasons, such as soffits, facias, guttering etc all look quite new (or frequently cleaned), the owner has recently had dry verge caps put on too. The owner has lived in the house for 20+ years too, so the condition of the house suggests that he has kept on top of any issues.
Now, the house was built in the 1970s. The roof looks good and there is a flat roof over the garage which looks fairly recent (I will ask how recent). Having had quotes for surveys, I'm now starting to ponder whether it's a waste of money or not. Clearly, there could be some shocking underlying issues but the chances of this seem very slim. I do know that not having a survey is a risk.
What are the thoughts on here? I wouldn't even be asking if the house was much older (the house we're selling is 1920s) or if the house hadn't been touched in 20 years, but neither are the case here. Our two previous purchases had surveys and I didn't find the information surprising or useful.
My view is they are not worth it. There are so many caveats and arse covering that if you discover something when you move in, there will be a way for the surveyor to avoid any responsibility.
I would probably consider a full structural survey on a older house but on something relatively recent that passes a visual inspection I wouldn’t bother.
I would probably consider a full structural survey on a older house but on something relatively recent that passes a visual inspection I wouldn’t bother.
I bought my house last year without a survey. It's 30 years old and I know the history of it VERY well, so felt some comfort in that.
There is a lot of self-protecting language in surveys on the surveyor's part, so I don't see much value in them, especially on a run of the mill house built relatively recently.
Not advice, just what I did.
There is a lot of self-protecting language in surveys on the surveyor's part, so I don't see much value in them, especially on a run of the mill house built relatively recently.
Not advice, just what I did.
I skipped a survey when buying our new house (We've exchanged now so it's too late to back out!) but instead went round it with a builder friend. I actually found this much more useful as not only could he diagnose issues but he could also give me a ballpark price to repair.
I'm not doubting the value of surveyors bit for a reasonably modern house (ours is 40 years old), I'm a convert to going round with a builder.
I gave my friend £50 for some beers and a thank you card and even then he tried to refuse it!
I'm not doubting the value of surveyors bit for a reasonably modern house (ours is 40 years old), I'm a convert to going round with a builder.
I gave my friend £50 for some beers and a thank you card and even then he tried to refuse it!
Never ceases to amaze me how many buyers of property effectively self proclaimed experts are prepared to risk big money for the sake of a couple of £ks by skimping a survey when in all reality the cost of the report will be easily recovered and more by negotiating a lower purchase price ££ because of defects revealed by the survey and further backed up by the surveyors professional indemnity.
Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
i dont tend to bother,
the final straw was the one my daughter got it mentinoed the tops of the fence panels were missing,
like it was a game changer and i couldnt see it myself,
anytthing with any kind of damage, id not bother and walk away and anything with anything obvious id be pretty sure
i think they jsut point out enough to maybe prick your attention, but then again i wouldnt buy anything that needed such a deep reoprt as well
the final straw was the one my daughter got it mentinoed the tops of the fence panels were missing,
like it was a game changer and i couldnt see it myself,
anytthing with any kind of damage, id not bother and walk away and anything with anything obvious id be pretty sure
i think they jsut point out enough to maybe prick your attention, but then again i wouldnt buy anything that needed such a deep reoprt as well
They're by and large an exercise in stating the obvious. All of which is subjective anyway.
We have been discussing a colleagues survey that I advised her not to bother with. She knows it was a waste of money. Yet the survey she had on her home has now put off the buyers. I've seen it, its a doom saying load of nonsense. Mentions asbestos. That whilst there's no reason to suspect the existance....it cant be ruled out. Surveyor suggests getting an asbestos survey.
It's absurd. Now the buyers are asking for a price reduction as they consider the house devalued. It leads to nonsense. Same surveyor has dedicated multiple pages to talking about leaves in the gutters.
We have been discussing a colleagues survey that I advised her not to bother with. She knows it was a waste of money. Yet the survey she had on her home has now put off the buyers. I've seen it, its a doom saying load of nonsense. Mentions asbestos. That whilst there's no reason to suspect the existance....it cant be ruled out. Surveyor suggests getting an asbestos survey.
It's absurd. Now the buyers are asking for a price reduction as they consider the house devalued. It leads to nonsense. Same surveyor has dedicated multiple pages to talking about leaves in the gutters.
It's a good question! I bought a house along with having a 'full survey' done that missed the point that the roof needed replacing. The surveyor's report included a thousand caveats that he could never be held responsible for anything said or unsaid.
Normally (I've bought a few houses and accompanying surveys), the survey will find fault in the smallest details and it can put some people off - 'evidence of....' is a classic phrase and this can be beetles, plague... any number of things.
On balance, unless you're really up against it on the cash, they're worth having. Despite my negative comments. There's a chance the surveyor might find something you've missed. You then either proceed, try to chip the price or back out.
Normally (I've bought a few houses and accompanying surveys), the survey will find fault in the smallest details and it can put some people off - 'evidence of....' is a classic phrase and this can be beetles, plague... any number of things.
On balance, unless you're really up against it on the cash, they're worth having. Despite my negative comments. There's a chance the surveyor might find something you've missed. You then either proceed, try to chip the price or back out.
av185 said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many buyers of property effectively self proclaimed experts are prepared to risk big money for the sake of a couple of £ks by skimping a survey when in all reality the cost of the report will be easily recovered and more by negotiating a lower purchase price ££ because of defects revealed by the survey and further backed up by the surveyors professional indemnity.
Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
When I sold my last house, the buyers had a survey done. The surveyor described it as a 2 bed semi with timber windows. It was a three bed mid terrance with plastic windows. Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
He claimed that the drains had collapsed and was causing subsidence, it was a small crack in the render bead next to a gate that liked to slam in windy conditions.
IMO, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
Gtom said:
av185 said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many buyers of property effectively self proclaimed experts are prepared to risk big money for the sake of a couple of £ks by skimping a survey when in all reality the cost of the report will be easily recovered and more by negotiating a lower purchase price ££ because of defects revealed by the survey and further backed up by the surveyors professional indemnity.
Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
When I sold my last house, the buyers had a survey done. The surveyor described it as a 2 bed semi with timber windows. It was a three bed mid terrance with plastic windows. Those advocating 'well my builder chum can obviously spot defects in any house' ...how many times have we heard this and what could possibly go wrong especially as he won't have any pi cover whatsoever and obviously
will not be able to provide an in depth report covering all aspects not just the condition and valuation.
Interesting a few years back I was instructed as an expert witness on a case involving a young couple who spent virtually the whole of their inheritance on a property they thought was perfect but unfortunately it had a colossal number of faults in construction dampness and major structural issues and they decided not to bother with a survey because it looked ok. Needless to say it was the worst financial decision they could have made when a report costing around c£3k would have revealed all.
Fwiw no skin in the game....semi retired Chartered Valuation Surveyor.
He claimed that the drains had collapsed and was causing subsidence, it was a small crack in the render bead next to a gate that liked to slam in windy conditions.
IMO, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
We are in a very similar position. Buying a 1970 house but is vacant position, looks in excellent condition. The family inheriting it have left the heating on for last 6 months even though empty, but they want to make sure no damp/frozen pipes etc.
However we have ordered a full Level 3 Structural survey. It was actually recommended by our conveyancer solicitors as the property had an extension built in 1970's and no planning or buildings control docs can be found. Friend also said average age of roof replacing is 50yrs so bang on time it might need one, which we haven't financially accounted for.
For peace of mind I would recommend one. The cost difference between Level 2 and Level 3 was less than £250 so just seemed to make sense to get the best.
However we have ordered a full Level 3 Structural survey. It was actually recommended by our conveyancer solicitors as the property had an extension built in 1970's and no planning or buildings control docs can be found. Friend also said average age of roof replacing is 50yrs so bang on time it might need one, which we haven't financially accounted for.
For peace of mind I would recommend one. The cost difference between Level 2 and Level 3 was less than £250 so just seemed to make sense to get the best.
If you want to go to the vendor and get cash off after agreeing a price they will be great as chances are they will recommend replacing everything that is over 10 years old 
Just arrange a time to meet the vendor and have a good old poke around, anything really bad will be pretty obvious and can be further investigated if needed. If the vendor is not happy to do this I would walk or pay for a full survey.
Just arrange a time to meet the vendor and have a good old poke around, anything really bad will be pretty obvious and can be further investigated if needed. If the vendor is not happy to do this I would walk or pay for a full survey.
Gtom said:
IMO, they aren’t worth the paper they are written on.
100% this Dude I contacted for a survey quoted a very reasonable £1000 odd. Alarm bells rang when he said he'd be on site for 3h and will produce a 60 page report. Hmm
And wouldn't show me a sample report because of data confidentiality
Main thing is how amenable to a price reduction are the sellers. And do you know how to look for obvious signs of damage/issues yourself.
our structural surveyor noticed that the top floor fireplaces had been removed meaning the chimneys werent supported so were at risk of collapse. Buyer paid c.£20k to have a steel put in up in the loft to fix (this is on an 1800's town house) so i would say his fee saved me a lot of money !
av185 said:
Never ceases to amaze me how many buyers of property effectively self proclaimed experts are prepared to risk big money for the sake of a couple of £ks by skimping a survey when in all reality the cost of the report will be easily recovered and more by negotiating a lower purchase price ££ because of defects revealed by the survey and further backed up by the surveyors professional indemnity.
.
IME there are so many caveats in the Survey report that it makes any legal challenges pointless..
craig1912 said:
My view is they are not worth it. There are so many caveats and arse covering that if you discover something when you move in, there will be a way for the surveyor to avoid any responsibility.
I would probably consider a full structural survey on a older house but on something relatively recent that passes a visual inspection I wouldn’t bother.
My experience matches this, I no longer bother as a result.I would probably consider a full structural survey on a older house but on something relatively recent that passes a visual inspection I wouldn’t bother.
I'd also add that all the arse covering language used and recommendations of getting specialist companies to check often scares new buyers. In some ways homebuyers surveys have become detrimental to the process of buying/selling a house.
SwissJonese said:
We are in a very similar position. Buying a 1970 house but is vacant position, looks in excellent condition. The family inheriting it have left the heating on for last 6 months even though empty, but they want to make sure no damp/frozen pipes etc.
However we have ordered a full Level 3 Structural survey. It was actually recommended by our conveyancer solicitors as the property had an extension built in 1970's and no planning or buildings control docs can be found. Friend also said average age of roof replacing is 50yrs so bang on time it might need one, which we haven't financially accounted for.
For peace of mind I would recommend one. The cost difference between Level 2 and Level 3 was less than £250 so just seemed to make sense to get the best.
Hook, line and sinkerHowever we have ordered a full Level 3 Structural survey. It was actually recommended by our conveyancer solicitors as the property had an extension built in 1970's and no planning or buildings control docs can be found. Friend also said average age of roof replacing is 50yrs so bang on time it might need one, which we haven't financially accounted for.
For peace of mind I would recommend one. The cost difference between Level 2 and Level 3 was less than £250 so just seemed to make sense to get the best.
Priced in such a way that it becomes a no brainer to "get the best"
This stuff needs regulation
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