Non-Permanent Pipe Sealing Challenge!
Discussion
Right you clever lot... hopefully a simple challenge... all good suggestions gratefully received!
I have a freestanding bath that was installed about 5 years ago by a bunch of bodgers whose work I've been fixing ever since. The latest issue is that the bath has a chrome waste arrangement with a u-bend at the front of the bath (by the plug hole) that then runs under the bath and turns 90 degrees to go down into a hole in the fully-tiled floor.
This arrangement has started leaking, but not from the u-bend as you might imagine, but actually from where the pipe goes into the floor. Thankfully, being a free standing bath I was able to disconnect everything, move it out of the way and examine this 'pipe-into-the-floor' arrangement.
What I discovered is that the chrome pipe fits into a plastic receptacle in the floor which is basically a pipe that stops flush with the floor, with an internal shoulder down inside that the bottom of the chrome pipe sits on (to stop it going too far into the receptacle). However, the chrome pipe is slightly narrower than the receptacle it goes into, so it's not an interference fit and there's no o-ring or push connector or anything, and therefore the installers just ran a load of silicone around it, put it in place and jobs-a-good-un... until now, 5 years later where the silicone has failed and I now have a leak.
I considered a few options to fix this...
1. Just re-do what they did, clean the chrome pipe, clean the receptacle, cover the chrome pipe in silicone sealant and pop it in. Run a bead about the top to seal to the floor and job done.
2. Find a suitable o-ring to create a waterproof seal. As the tolerance between the two pipes is quite small I gave up on this after trying all the options in my o-ring kit - we're talking less than 1mm.
3. Use a flexible adhesive around the chrome pipe instead, maybe something like tiger-seal that's likely to be more resilient than silicone sealant. I decided against this because, if I have any problems in the area in future, I'm going to have to resort to some gnarly tactics to remove, which might damage the receptacle under the tiled floor which would VERY BAD.
4. Wind a bunch of PTFE tape around the chrome pipe and then screw/wedge it into the receptacle - this is the temporary/maybe permanent solution I've gone for, for now.
I don't want any option that required force/pushing down into the receptacle because if it moves/breaks/becomes detached into the floor cavity I'm going to have a very bad day.
I don't want 'that's never coming out without a hammer' option because of the same issue if something starts to leak.
So... any suggestions to add to the 4 above? How would this normally be accomplished if it wasn't bodged by a bunch of bogders?
Thank you!
I have a freestanding bath that was installed about 5 years ago by a bunch of bodgers whose work I've been fixing ever since. The latest issue is that the bath has a chrome waste arrangement with a u-bend at the front of the bath (by the plug hole) that then runs under the bath and turns 90 degrees to go down into a hole in the fully-tiled floor.
This arrangement has started leaking, but not from the u-bend as you might imagine, but actually from where the pipe goes into the floor. Thankfully, being a free standing bath I was able to disconnect everything, move it out of the way and examine this 'pipe-into-the-floor' arrangement.
What I discovered is that the chrome pipe fits into a plastic receptacle in the floor which is basically a pipe that stops flush with the floor, with an internal shoulder down inside that the bottom of the chrome pipe sits on (to stop it going too far into the receptacle). However, the chrome pipe is slightly narrower than the receptacle it goes into, so it's not an interference fit and there's no o-ring or push connector or anything, and therefore the installers just ran a load of silicone around it, put it in place and jobs-a-good-un... until now, 5 years later where the silicone has failed and I now have a leak.
I considered a few options to fix this...
1. Just re-do what they did, clean the chrome pipe, clean the receptacle, cover the chrome pipe in silicone sealant and pop it in. Run a bead about the top to seal to the floor and job done.
2. Find a suitable o-ring to create a waterproof seal. As the tolerance between the two pipes is quite small I gave up on this after trying all the options in my o-ring kit - we're talking less than 1mm.
3. Use a flexible adhesive around the chrome pipe instead, maybe something like tiger-seal that's likely to be more resilient than silicone sealant. I decided against this because, if I have any problems in the area in future, I'm going to have to resort to some gnarly tactics to remove, which might damage the receptacle under the tiled floor which would VERY BAD.
4. Wind a bunch of PTFE tape around the chrome pipe and then screw/wedge it into the receptacle - this is the temporary/maybe permanent solution I've gone for, for now.
I don't want any option that required force/pushing down into the receptacle because if it moves/breaks/becomes detached into the floor cavity I'm going to have a very bad day.
I don't want 'that's never coming out without a hammer' option because of the same issue if something starts to leak.
So... any suggestions to add to the 4 above? How would this normally be accomplished if it wasn't bodged by a bunch of bogders?
Thank you!
I could be wrong, but that looks like a solvent weld socket.
You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
Alternative to solvent welding pipe in, maybe your favoured sealant to glue a length of pipe in?
If the gap between the socket and the pipe is more than ~1mm, you could have an o-ring or two around the pipe.
Alternative include using lathe or 3d printer to conjure an adpator....
You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
Alternative to solvent welding pipe in, maybe your favoured sealant to glue a length of pipe in?
If the gap between the socket and the pipe is more than ~1mm, you could have an o-ring or two around the pipe.
Alternative include using lathe or 3d printer to conjure an adpator....
bangerhoarder said:
Non-setting putty like Plumbers Mait or Boss White? That’s what I tend to use with stubborn waste fittings.
I'd second Plumbers Mait as it doesn't set so you can disassemble the joint if necessary. Roll a very thin sausage onto the shoulder down in the fitting (assuming the chrome pipe reached the shoulder) & also carefully pack more into the 1mm gap around the chrome pipe.OutInTheShed said:
I could be wrong, but that looks like a solvent weld socket.
You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
This /\You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
Clean up the socket with some sandpaper, say, 180 grit, buy a small container of solvent weld 'adhesive' from B&Q/Screwfix/Wickes etc and remake all the pipework back to the trap attached to the plughole in new solvent weld pipe & fittings. Your final connection to the trap will be a compression fitting. While you're in there, best to replace the trap with one from McAlpine.
Then stand back and admire your work!
If you're in any doubt about making solvent weld joints there's plenty of explanantory videos on YouTube to guide you through the process. It's a very simple procedure.
The original post amused me as, when faced with the same problem, my thought process would be exactly the same I think. The one thing I'd be nervous about is doing solvent welding, screwing it up and then having to rip up the tiles - as per the title of the post, I'd be going for something slightly less permanent and entirely reversible / re-doable. My vote would therefore be to use the same solution that the original plumbers employed, and silicon it. If it lasts another 5 years that feels like a win and it can be redone again if needs be.
Another option, not sure if feasible and if you think the problem is water hitting the shoulder and backing up: the pipe from the bath that rests on the shoulder, remove it and replace with a slightly smaller diameter pipe that bypasses the shoulder and discharges straight into the ‘recepticle’. Use solvent weld so it doesn’t come adrift from the bath, then apply a bead of silicone at the floor junction to stop any odours coming up.
bangerhoarder said:
Non-setting putty like Plumbers Mait or Boss White? That’s what I tend to use with stubborn waste fittings.
Ah, I sort-of assumed that stuff was for threaded fittings, don't know why. I'll take a look, thank you!IJWS15 said:
Can you take a piece of ceiling down below it, may allow a proper fix.
Don't even joke. Been down once already for a radiator issue in the same room and I'll be damned if I'm doing it again! OutInTheShed said:
I could be wrong, but that looks like a solvent weld socket.
You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
Alternative to solvent welding pipe in, maybe your favoured sealant to glue a length of pipe in?
If the gap between the socket and the pipe is more than ~1mm, you could have an o-ring or two around the pipe.
Alternative include using lathe or 3d printer to conjure an adpator....
All excellent ideas, thank you - I covered a couple of those off myself. You're right about it probably being a plastic-weld in socket but I don't want to weld a white plastic pipe into it to extend above the floor because the whole point is to have only the chrome pipework visible. You could consider welding in a short bit of pipe then using compression fittings between there and the plug'ole?
Alternative to solvent welding pipe in, maybe your favoured sealant to glue a length of pipe in?
If the gap between the socket and the pipe is more than ~1mm, you could have an o-ring or two around the pipe.
Alternative include using lathe or 3d printer to conjure an adpator....
Depthhoar said:
This /\
Clean up the socket with some sandpaper, say, 180 grit, buy a small container of solvent weld 'adhesive' from B&Q/Screwfix/Wickes etc and remake all the pipework back to the trap attached to the plughole in new solvent weld pipe & fittings. Your final connection to the trap will be a compression fitting. While you're in there, best to replace the trap with one from McAlpine.
Then stand back and admire your work!
If you're in any doubt about making solvent weld joints there's plenty of explanantory videos on YouTube to guide you through the process. It's a very simple procedure.
Great idea, thank you, but a load of white piping visible under my free-standing bath wouldn't work for me, hence trying to retain the chrome pipework. Clean up the socket with some sandpaper, say, 180 grit, buy a small container of solvent weld 'adhesive' from B&Q/Screwfix/Wickes etc and remake all the pipework back to the trap attached to the plughole in new solvent weld pipe & fittings. Your final connection to the trap will be a compression fitting. While you're in there, best to replace the trap with one from McAlpine.
Then stand back and admire your work!
If you're in any doubt about making solvent weld joints there's plenty of explanantory videos on YouTube to guide you through the process. It's a very simple procedure.
Mr Pointy said:
It does look ike a solvent weld socket but the chrome pipe may have been dropped into it becaause it's visible & having a white plastic stub & a MacAlpine joiner would spoil the look - it's a freestanding bath.
Exactly this... I did wonder if I could find a pipe that I could weld into the receptive with a flush flange that could go to the floor, but then I think the chrome pipe would be too big to go into it. The tolerance is small. b14 said:
The original post amused me as, when faced with the same problem, my thought process would be exactly the same I think. The one thing I'd be nervous about is doing solvent welding, screwing it up and then having to rip up the tiles - as per the title of the post, I'd be going for something slightly less permanent and entirely reversible / re-doable. My vote would therefore be to use the same solution that the original plumbers employed, and silicon it. If it lasts another 5 years that feels like a win and it can be redone again if needs be.
That's definitely my fall-back position! wolfracesonic said:
Another option, not sure if feasible and if you think the problem is water hitting the shoulder and backing up: the pipe from the bath that rests on the shoulder, remove it and replace with a slightly smaller diameter pipe that bypasses the shoulder and discharges straight into the ‘recepticle’. Use solvent weld so it doesn’t come adrift from the bath, then apply a bead of silicone at the floor junction to stop any odours coming up.
Another good suggestion, thank you.. however the chrome piping is all kind-of bespoke for the bath. I did think about finding a narrower piece of pipe and gluing that INSIDE the chrome pipe so that it extended beyond the shoulder, but realised that would narrow the flow still further and just introduce more things to go wrong. My guess, if it's helpful, is that under the floor is literally another 90 degree bend and then it's off to the soil stack. How that lot's affixed to the floor/ceiling joists or whatever is anyone's guess... hence wanting to avoid exerting much downward pressure. If it's anything like the installer's other work.. it will be affixed in the quickest/cheapest/flimsiest way possible. 
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