Planning...

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Freakuk

Original Poster:

3,455 posts

158 months

Monday 11th November
quotequote all
Not sure where to start with this one, bear with me.

We have effectively an 8mx4m outbuilding that was new when we moved in 5 years ago, it's a wooden frame, insulated and clad in oak and sits on a brick base, but a wooden suspended floor. The building was split into two 4x4 boxes, one side used as a garage and the other as an office etc.

The snag is the current size isn't deep enough for us to get a car in (not that we would with the current floor), there's about 1m behind of free space and we can extend forward also, so probably at a minimum 8mx6m.

What I would like to do is knock this down and build a proper brick building, downstairs would effectively be all garage space with storage, upstairs would be 2 rooms and possibly have a toilet/en-suite, nothing too fancy. We live on a small country lane with 3 other properties, there's plenty of space between homes so I doubt light etc would be an issue, but I believe planning was tricky when our home was originally built.

I have no idea what I should do with regards to getting this from an idea to reality, I have called the building who did convert our home and he could do the work and I'd happily give him the ££££

I assume I'll need planning permission, do I need architecture plans, reading on-line it seems it's not a legal requirement, but I really don't know how to navigate planning and what I need to do.

Is anyone able to advise?

smokey mow

1,108 posts

207 months

Monday 11th November
quotequote all
from your description, yes you will need planning permission.

There is no legal requirement to use an architect to submit the application, but if you don’t know what you’re doing and don’t have the knowledge to provide the right drawings and details then obviously you will need to employ someone who does.

spikeyhead

17,957 posts

204 months

Monday 11th November
quotequote all
I'd have a chat with a planning consultant. AIUI the additional rooms with en-suite effectively create a new residence...

Condi

17,933 posts

178 months

Tuesday 12th November
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spikeyhead said:
I'd have a chat with a planning consultant. AIUI the additional rooms with en-suite effectively create a new residence...
Not necessarily, the test is if its "ancillary to the current house" or some words to that effect. A garage with a bedroom + ensuite above could easily be a guest bedroom or whatever. If it had living spaces and a kitchen as well, then it would be much harder to argue it is not an independent dwelling.

As for planning, no need for an architect drawing, but you will need appropriate maps and drawings. The maps are available online, from memory about £30 ish for an Ordnance Survey location map, and then you can draw your own site map or get a more zoomed in OS map and draw the building location on there. I bought some garage plans online and submitted them, was cheap and cheerful, the design had all the material specs etc on for the planners. You can draw your own, but will need to specify sizing and materials. If you can find an "off the shelf" plan then it's probably easier than drawing your own, but obviously depends on finding something the size and design you want. Submit the application using the Planning Portal website and you're all done. A few years ago, but cost for everything was about £200 or so for a small garage application which was approved in a few months.

You might get away without planning, it depends on the hight, location and size of the garage. Have a look here and see if it meets all these requirements;

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common...



Edited by Condi on Tuesday 12th November 08:49

Busa mav

2,692 posts

161 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
Your proposal will definitely need both a planning , and a building regulations application for sure.

Condi

17,933 posts

178 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
Busa mav said:
Your proposal will definitely need both a planning , and a building regulations application for sure.
Why will it?

If it's more than 2m away from the boundary, is less than 4m overall height, and less than half the size of the "available land" or whatever the term is then it won't need planning, and from what the OP has said, given the rural plot, then it could well pass under permitted development.

andye30m3

3,472 posts

261 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
If it's within PD I would still apply for a certificate of lawful development.

I've recently had an outbuilding refused, all be it quite a large one, rural location, ticks all of the boxes maybe 5% of site if that but the council don't believe it's required for the enjoyment of the house so refused the application.

We applied for the certificate before starting any works, not sure what they'd have done if we hadn't

smokey mow

1,108 posts

207 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
Condi said:
Busa mav said:
Your proposal will definitely need both a planning , and a building regulations application for sure.
Why will it?

If it's more than 2m away from the boundary, is less than 4m overall height, and less than half the size of the "available land" or whatever the term is then it won't need planning, and from what the OP has said, given the rural plot, then it could well pass under permitted development.
I challenge you to build a 2-storey outbuilding as the OP describes which is under 4m tall and with enough useable headroom on each floor.

Freakuk

Original Poster:

3,455 posts

158 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Condi said:
spikeyhead said:
I'd have a chat with a planning consultant. AIUI the additional rooms with en-suite effectively create a new residence...
Not necessarily, the test is if its "ancillary to the current house" or some words to that effect. A garage with a bedroom + ensuite above could easily be a guest bedroom or whatever. If it had living spaces and a kitchen as well, then it would be much harder to argue it is not an independent dwelling.

As for planning, no need for an architect drawing, but you will need appropriate maps and drawings. The maps are available online, from memory about £30 ish for an Ordnance Survey location map, and then you can draw your own site map or get a more zoomed in OS map and draw the building location on there. I bought some garage plans online and submitted them, was cheap and cheerful, the design had all the material specs etc on for the planners. You can draw your own, but will need to specify sizing and materials. If you can find an "off the shelf" plan then it's probably easier than drawing your own, but obviously depends on finding something the size and design you want. Submit the application using the Planning Portal website and you're all done. A few years ago, but cost for everything was about £200 or so for a small garage application which was approved in a few months.

You might get away without planning, it depends on the hight, location and size of the garage. Have a look here and see if it meets all these requirements;

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common...



Edited by Condi on Tuesday 12th November 08:49
I'm no planner like I mentioned, but you've hit the nail on the head with my thought process, I just want to increase my current plot size (there's already brick footings for the existing garage/office) and take the office upstairs and have a 2nd room plus bathroom/en-suite just in case more than anything, downstairs will just be garage/storage of bikes/cars/toys etc.

Unfortunately my local council no longer have a pre-planning function due to resource, so I'm unsure if I'd better be belts & braces with an architect or cobble together my own drawings, but I am no structural engineer.

As I mentioned previously the original builder has capacity at the end of March if we could get it all submitted/approved by then so maybe he could add that detail.

Busa mav

2,692 posts

161 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Condi said:
Why will it?

If it's more than 2m away from the boundary, is less than 4m overall height, and less than half the size of the "available land" or whatever the term is then it won't need planning, and from what the OP has said, given the rural plot, then it could well pass under permitted development.
All irrelevant, the proposal falls outside of PD as soon as the OP mentioned 2 storey wink

Condi

17,933 posts

178 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Freakuk said:
I'm no planner like I mentioned, but you've hit the nail on the head with my thought process, I just want to increase my current plot size (there's already brick footings for the existing garage/office) and take the office upstairs and have a 2nd room plus bathroom/en-suite just in case more than anything, downstairs will just be garage/storage of bikes/cars/toys etc.

Unfortunately my local council no longer have a pre-planning function due to resource, so I'm unsure if I'd better be belts & braces with an architect or cobble together my own drawings, but I am no structural engineer.

As I mentioned previously the original builder has capacity at the end of March if we could get it all submitted/approved by then so maybe he could add that detail.
I missed the bit about the height, (thanks to all who noticed!), and so you're unlikely to get under 4m PD for a 2 story building.

You could probably do it under PD rights by putting any living space on the ground floor, and end up with a building with a much bigger footprint, but single story. Depends on the size of your plot, location etc.

Busa mav

2,692 posts

161 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Even if it’s under 4m, it’s still 2 storey and therefore fails the PD test

z4RRSchris

11,513 posts

186 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
its not PD, you'll need planning.

I wouldnt put a kitchen in for planning, will make it look like youll rent it out / air bnb it.


ewanjp

396 posts

44 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
its not PD, you'll need planning.

I wouldnt put a kitchen in for planning, will make it look like youll rent it out / air bnb it.
Out of curiosity, assuming you put in planning for a construction above a garage with a bathroom / shower but no kitchen, build it, and then at some later date put a kitchen in it (as you'd have all the required services), would you need new planning?

z4RRSchris

11,513 posts

186 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
you would be changing the usage of the out building from a room / office to a dwelling - you would be in breech and i suspect your original planning you detail your not allowed to use it as a self contained dwelling.


Jeremy-75qq8

1,176 posts

99 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
On your application just show an open plan play room.

Keep the planners focused on what it looks like not off at a tangent re dwelling etc