Own (DIY) Conveyancing

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Discussion

AndyC_123

Original Poster:

1,166 posts

161 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
I'm sure I read on here somewhere that a few people had done their own conveyancing in the past, but can't find it now.

Anyone done it that can provide some insight? Have one to do, no searches required and thought it could be interesting.

Cheers

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
Buying or selling?

Not sure I'd risk buying unless it was a beer money purchase.

Panamax

5,055 posts

41 months

Thursday 31st October
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If there's a mortgage involved DIY is, in my opinion, a non-starter in practical terms.

In the context of house purchase conveyancing costs are just a drop in a bucket.

AndyC_123

Original Poster:

1,166 posts

161 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
Buying, auction (cash purchase).

Bet it's not too complicated

Jobbo

13,115 posts

271 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
One of the hurdles is meeting the seller's solicitor's AML requirements to receive the purchase money and another will be to get it registered at the Land Registry. You may find the auction terms require you to have a solicitor for these reasons.

TownIdiot

1,563 posts

6 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
AndyC_123 said:
Buying, auction (cash purchase).

Bet it's not too complicated
It's not complicated but it's very process driven.

Loads of AML stuff.

Give it a go and let us know.
What's the worst that can happen?

Panamax

5,055 posts

41 months

Thursday 31st October
quotequote all
AndyC_123 said:
Buying, auction (cash purchase).
OK, so there's no contract to negotiate because the contract is the terms of auction and you will be expected to pay up within the stated timescale - being on the hook for interest etc if you're late. Similarly there will almost certainly be a "Transfer" form among the auction papers which will be non-negotiable and which you may be required to sign. So you pay your money and walk away with a signed Transfer and then it's "just" a matter of doing a Stamp Duty return, paying the SDLT (if applicable) and registering the Transfer with the Land Registry.

It's all doable but frankly a few hundred quid to a conveyancer might save you a lot of faffing about. The various fees and taxes are typically more significant that a simple conveyancing cost - but that will depend on the particular transaction.

All of the above assumes you're buying a freehold property. If it's leasehold I wouldn't touch it without a conveyancer.

Jeremy-75qq8

1,176 posts

99 months

Friday 1st November
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I have done it 3 times. I won't repeat what I said on the thread linked above.

It works well for moving titles about - you in effect just fill out a form.

The work is all done by the person moving it they fill out and lodge the tr1.

The buy side does nothing other than hand over the money ( if any )

Just ask the sellers solicitor if they will take the money off you. There is frankly nothing else for you to do. The contract is set etc given it is an auction.

Do bear in mind that a lawyer is there to protect you so if there is something odd in the title you won't know about it. If it was really bad post auction you could just walk away and loose your deposit as opposed to completing. With just handing over the money you don't have this option.

I buy from commercial auctions but the lawyers have checked the documents out first which is about 80% of the total cost.

blueg33

38,487 posts

231 months

Friday 1st November
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Don't do it.

Over the years I have come across quite a few wannabe lawyers or tight arses that want to save a couple of £k.

Every single time the transaction has taken an age and been fraught with difficulty.

Looks easy on paper, but as soon as there is anything complex like a mortgage, covenants, missing documents, title assemblies, historic conveyancing errors etc, it simply grinds to a halt or falls apart completely.

blueg33

38,487 posts

231 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
AndyC_123 said:
Buying, auction (cash purchase).

Bet it's not too complicated
How are you going to do the DD? Will you understand all of the risks etc in the title and transfers?

Auction properties often have title issues, aside from forced sale it is one of the main reasons properties are sold by auction.

If its a house built post 1995 it will probably be fine, if its older especially 1950's or older it could be very messy

Panamax

5,055 posts

41 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
How are you going to do the DD? Will you understand all of the risks etc in the title and transfers?
When you buy at auction there is an "auction pack" provided by the seller and which can be inspected before the auction. The pack will include information about the title and also the form of contract, including any special conditions, which will come into existence as soon as the hammer falls. Typically you must pay 10% deposit by debit card at the auction and then complete within 28 days.

The auction pack is available at the auction in hard copy. Additionally, for a fee, you or your solicitor can look at it online ahead of the auction. There's generally no negotiation possible at all - unless you decide to make a knock-out offer ahead of the auction.

The key point is that all DD needs to be done before the auction, with or without a solicitor taking a look at it. Since there's no negotiation the only factor is how much you decide to bid, taking account of the physical condition of the property and your assessment of the auction pack.

Jobbo

13,115 posts

271 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Panamax said:
The auction pack is available at the auction in hard copy. Additionally, for a fee, you or your solicitor can look at it online ahead of the auction. There's generally no negotiation possible at all - unless you decide to make a knock-out offer ahead of the auction.
Most auction packs are available online without paying a fee now - just register your details with the auction site. That doesn't mean everything is set out nice and neatly with all issues laid out before you.

Deposit and fees being paid by card to the auctioneer is normal. The balance of funds will need to be transferred to the seller's solicitor and they are unlikely to accept payments from anyone other than their client or another solicitor. So by failing to use a solicitor, a buyer puts the transaction in jeopardy and risks losing their deposit because they can't comply with the seller's solicitor's AML requirements.

For those above who have bought at auction without a solicitor, how did you deal with the payment part?

Panamax

5,055 posts

41 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Jobbo said:
For those above who have bought at auction without a solicitor, how did you deal with the payment part?
I bought properties at auction without a solicitor but then handed everything over to a solicitor to deal with completion (including money transfer), payment of Stamp Duty and registering the Titles. The vast majority of the cost was SDLT and Land Registry fees, the conveyancer's fee itself comparatively small and IMO worth paying.

blueg33

38,487 posts

231 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Panamax said:
blueg33 said:
How are you going to do the DD? Will you understand all of the risks etc in the title and transfers?
When you buy at auction there is an "auction pack" provided by the seller and which can be inspected before the auction. The pack will include information about the title and also the form of contract, including any special conditions, which will come into existence as soon as the hammer falls. Typically you must pay 10% deposit by debit card at the auction and then complete within 28 days.

The auction pack is available at the auction in hard copy. Additionally, for a fee, you or your solicitor can look at it online ahead of the auction. There's generally no negotiation possible at all - unless you decide to make a knock-out offer ahead of the auction.

The key point is that all DD needs to be done before the auction, with or without a solicitor taking a look at it. Since there's no negotiation the only factor is how much you decide to bid, taking account of the physical condition of the property and your assessment of the auction pack.
I know that - but its about understanding the DD you are looking at. How many lay people understand a scheme of development covenant, rights to light, easements and lift and shift provisions, septic tank permits, impact of nearby historic landfill on mortgageability etc

PistonBroker

2,517 posts

233 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
I did the conveyancing for our first house. But it was during my brief stint as a conveyancing clerk.

My boss, god rest his soul, had to sign off on the file before I could exchange. I tried to do it as £60k for the house and £3.5k for the chattels to avoid an SDLT bill - those were the days! - and he wasn't having any of it. Dammit!

It's never occurred to me to do it myself since. The cost seems insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Panamax

5,055 posts

41 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
its about understanding the DD you are looking at. How many lay people understand a scheme of development covenant, rights to light, easements and lift and shift provisions, septic tank permits, impact of nearby historic landfill on mortgageability etc
Precisely. The starting point is to read what's there and, if not fully understood, decide what help to get. Some auction entries can be extremely straightforward with almost no paperwork to look at. A freehold detached Title register plus local searches might be all there is.

One of the properties I bought had a number of issues with its Title but at least the house itself was built on a part we knew had proper freehold title. The old plans were so poor the boundaries were out by a mile and the site of an old, communal bath-house behind the terrace had no title at all. Anyway, I managed to get it all sorted out. After the solicitor had completed the purchase I pursued the various anomalies with the Land Registry in person. They sent surveyors out to update the digital mapping, which sorted the boundaries, and gave title to the old bath-house based on a letter from previous owner saying it had been gone for years. Good result in the end. But yes, people need to go in with their eyes open and seek help if anything isn't understood.

Jeremy-75qq8

1,176 posts

99 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Jobbo said:
Most auction packs are available online without paying a fee now - just register your details with the auction site. That doesn't mean everything is set out nice and neatly with all issues laid out before you.

Deposit and fees being paid by card to the auctioneer is normal. The balance of funds will need to be transferred to the seller's solicitor and they are unlikely to accept payments from anyone other than their client or another solicitor. So by failing to use a solicitor, a buyer puts the transaction in jeopardy and risks losing their deposit because they can't comply with the seller's solicitor's AML requirements.

For those above who have bought at auction without a solicitor, how did you deal with the payment part?
Not sure if this was aimed at me. I have not done self conveyancing for auction purchases. Mine were moving probate properties around ( very simple ) and selling a freehold toilet block to a cash buyer who we knew well.

Nil due diligence on either, simply moving titles about which is very simple but the land reg do do id checks which is the most complex part. Normally they rely on your solicitor to do that. They have a diy team in Cardiff who are very helpful.

In the op case the only question is will the sellers lawyers take his money and i have no idea as to the answer - others think they won't so follow their advise ( or ask the sellers lawyers ! )