The future of the 'old' house
Discussion
After living all our lives in old houses, mostly listed, we've just moved to a new build.
The prospect of being maintenance free and future proofed for when we sell on has certainly been a key motivator to moving into something I'd never previously considered. I'm a building surveyor with a professional interest in historic property.
This has got me thinking - anecdotally older houses seem to be sticking around where we are or being subject to long marketing periods then repeated price drops before selling (ours sold quickly but it was priced correctly and I had thermally upgraded it extensively over many years).
With the ever increasing move towards net zero and increasing energy costs, accelerated it would seem by Milliband, where does this leave the future for older houses where, by way of an obvious example, the cost of upgrading to make a ASHP system actually work, could be tens of thousands or even be precluded by a listing
How do we think this might affect the price and saleability of older houses going forward?
The prospect of being maintenance free and future proofed for when we sell on has certainly been a key motivator to moving into something I'd never previously considered. I'm a building surveyor with a professional interest in historic property.
This has got me thinking - anecdotally older houses seem to be sticking around where we are or being subject to long marketing periods then repeated price drops before selling (ours sold quickly but it was priced correctly and I had thermally upgraded it extensively over many years).
With the ever increasing move towards net zero and increasing energy costs, accelerated it would seem by Milliband, where does this leave the future for older houses where, by way of an obvious example, the cost of upgrading to make a ASHP system actually work, could be tens of thousands or even be precluded by a listing
How do we think this might affect the price and saleability of older houses going forward?
The standard of construction of new homes doesn't fill me with confidence. No idea how that's going to pan out over the next couple of decades as the poor quality comes home to roost, anthracite falls out of fashion and we have a vast number of people unable to do any more DIY than change a lightbulb. I can certainly see why they are attractive in the short term and if maintenance is an issue for a buyer.
Unreal said:
The standard of construction of new homes doesn't fill me with confidence. No idea how that's going to pan out over the next couple of decades as the poor quality comes home to roost, anthracite falls out of fashion and we have a vast number of people unable to do any more DIY than change a lightbulb. I can certainly see why they are attractive in the short term and if maintenance is an issue for a buyer.
Very much this. New building methods are shocking insulation wood and plasterboard. Your big old house will still be standing a long time after the new builds. I really don’t see the new builds as maintenance free either. I've been living in a 100yr old house for the last 24 years. I've done a bunch of refurbing over the years and it's been a satisfactory family home for the kids to grow up in. But i'm now weary of constant DIY and gardening maintenance despite trying to always keep an eye on doing upgrades for a low maintenance future. My/our next house will be modern and well insulated and easy to maintain, and i'm well past the rose tinted spectacles of a old 'character' property that is just as shoddily constructed as the new stuff.
I suspect that the EPC requirement for selling houses will eventually rise.
It is planned for rentals and a logical next step would be homes. Those with a low EPC are using more angry than they need. Until now it has been a free market - use as much as you like if you can pay. I suspect that eventually ( no idea how long) that will become the equivalent of drink driving and seems as not OK to be so wasteful.
I live in a very large self build house. The heating bill is minimal.
It is planned for rentals and a logical next step would be homes. Those with a low EPC are using more angry than they need. Until now it has been a free market - use as much as you like if you can pay. I suspect that eventually ( no idea how long) that will become the equivalent of drink driving and seems as not OK to be so wasteful.
I live in a very large self build house. The heating bill is minimal.
Most old houses I know of excluding the rows of terraced houses have large rooms and large gardens, a driveway and options to extend.
Contrast that with most new houses, A computer crams as many in a given space as possible resulting in stamp sized gardens, often parking for one car, rooms you can't swing a cat in and no possible way of extending.
I know which I'd rather have.
Contrast that with most new houses, A computer crams as many in a given space as possible resulting in stamp sized gardens, often parking for one car, rooms you can't swing a cat in and no possible way of extending.
I know which I'd rather have.
drmotorsport said:
I've been living in a 100yr old house for the last 24 years. I've done a bunch of refurbing over the years and it's been a satisfactory family home for the kids to grow up in. But i'm now weary of constant DIY and gardening maintenance despite trying to always keep an eye on doing upgrades for a low maintenance future. My/our next house will be modern and well insulated and easy to maintain, and i'm well past the rose tinted spectacles of a old 'character' property that is just as shoddily constructed as the new stuff.
You are exactly describing why we have gone to a new build, something I thought I would never do. I've maintained our old place for the last 28 years and now want an easy life with cost certainty.My occasional stays in good traditional hotels / aparthotels has ratcheted up my expectations of living in a 'character' building.
Yes, I want beautiful, large volume and big windows and an air of permanence and craftsmanship. But I am also getting used to great climate control, great lighting, silence, Audio Visual smarts, reliable plumbing, a spa-like bathroom, USB C and sockets everywhere.
I'd need to be very rich to have the character building I desire, with all the creature comforts I have been sold on. I think it's called the 'ratchet effect'
Yes, I want beautiful, large volume and big windows and an air of permanence and craftsmanship. But I am also getting used to great climate control, great lighting, silence, Audio Visual smarts, reliable plumbing, a spa-like bathroom, USB C and sockets everywhere.
I'd need to be very rich to have the character building I desire, with all the creature comforts I have been sold on. I think it's called the 'ratchet effect'
Lotobear said:
After living all our lives in old houses, mostly listed, we've just moved to a new build.
The prospect of being maintenance free and future proofed for when we sell on has certainly been a key motivator to moving into something I'd never previously considered. I'm a building surveyor with a professional interest in historic property.
This has got me thinking - anecdotally older houses seem to be sticking around where we are or being subject to long marketing periods then repeated price drops before selling (ours sold quickly but it was priced correctly and I had thermally upgraded it extensively over many years).
With the ever increasing move towards net zero and increasing energy costs, accelerated it would seem by Milliband, where does this leave the future for older houses where, by way of an obvious example, the cost of upgrading to make a ASHP system actually work, could be tens of thousands or even be precluded by a listing
How do we think this might affect the price and saleability of older houses going forward?
Given the current state of new builds and the added desirability of older houses, I'd say they're the safe bet. People don't really care about thermal performance or EPC's. The prospect of being maintenance free and future proofed for when we sell on has certainly been a key motivator to moving into something I'd never previously considered. I'm a building surveyor with a professional interest in historic property.
This has got me thinking - anecdotally older houses seem to be sticking around where we are or being subject to long marketing periods then repeated price drops before selling (ours sold quickly but it was priced correctly and I had thermally upgraded it extensively over many years).
With the ever increasing move towards net zero and increasing energy costs, accelerated it would seem by Milliband, where does this leave the future for older houses where, by way of an obvious example, the cost of upgrading to make a ASHP system actually work, could be tens of thousands or even be precluded by a listing
How do we think this might affect the price and saleability of older houses going forward?
I prefer old design but on a modern build. Mine is a Georgian style house but built to meet modern regulations. It’s cheap to heat and it’s great place to live.
By comparison my in laws house it also has a lovely character but it’s very costly/inefficient to keep warm and needs constant maintenance.
For me modern construction with good architectural design is best if both worlds.
As much as I love character I wouldn’t buy an old listed house to live many years unless there was a short term investment element to it.
Also the idea a modern constructed house lacks charm or character is only related to the ability of self build and have a decent architectural design designing it.
Obviously not all are self build and main contractors offer a limited design as just want to maximise profit.
By comparison my in laws house it also has a lovely character but it’s very costly/inefficient to keep warm and needs constant maintenance.
For me modern construction with good architectural design is best if both worlds.
As much as I love character I wouldn’t buy an old listed house to live many years unless there was a short term investment element to it.
Also the idea a modern constructed house lacks charm or character is only related to the ability of self build and have a decent architectural design designing it.
Obviously not all are self build and main contractors offer a limited design as just want to maximise profit.
Our house is ~150 years old and even after several projects (re-plumb, re-wire and re-roof) it definitely still needs maintenance. I worry as I get older how well I'll be able to keep up with that! It has a large garden but that means more maintenance. Does keep me busy though and good exercise. A lifestyle choice as someone told me 
Our house seemed originally built to last for generations - slate, stone walls about 1m thick, slow grown timber, hardwood finishings etc. I'm currently looking at double glazing and everyone I've had looked has commented that the original window casings are as solid as the day they went in (sashes less so). The wood used I guess was of such a high quality and the house stonework built to shelter and protect the timber.
On flip side, I know so many people who have had issues with new build and newer houses. Modern materials were used with a budget conscious timespan in mind I guess vs long term value. Maybe 50-70 years vs >100 years. Some of the workmanship on new builds is pretty "shocking". It's not comparable to buying a new car and quality control still appears lacking.
Friends with brand new houses have all had to get entire garden re-done as builders took the top soil and left a rubble patch.
Some are looking at air-con as the super high levels of insulation + air tight + lots of glass made summer unpleasant.
Friends with a ~90s built house are getting new windows as the original plastic ones are done.
Heating and energy efficiency feels like the largest old house negative I've found on the whole. In a few rooms we've created an insulated room within a room with success. Doing that around cornice and other features is wildly expensive and very disruptive.
Some kind of super insulating wallpaper would be my dream material!
Our house seemed originally built to last for generations - slate, stone walls about 1m thick, slow grown timber, hardwood finishings etc. I'm currently looking at double glazing and everyone I've had looked has commented that the original window casings are as solid as the day they went in (sashes less so). The wood used I guess was of such a high quality and the house stonework built to shelter and protect the timber.
On flip side, I know so many people who have had issues with new build and newer houses. Modern materials were used with a budget conscious timespan in mind I guess vs long term value. Maybe 50-70 years vs >100 years. Some of the workmanship on new builds is pretty "shocking". It's not comparable to buying a new car and quality control still appears lacking.
Friends with brand new houses have all had to get entire garden re-done as builders took the top soil and left a rubble patch.
Some are looking at air-con as the super high levels of insulation + air tight + lots of glass made summer unpleasant.
Friends with a ~90s built house are getting new windows as the original plastic ones are done.
Heating and energy efficiency feels like the largest old house negative I've found on the whole. In a few rooms we've created an insulated room within a room with success. Doing that around cornice and other features is wildly expensive and very disruptive.
Some kind of super insulating wallpaper would be my dream material!
BoRED S2upid said:
Very much this. New building methods are shocking insulation wood and plasterboard. Your big old house will still be standing a long time after the new builds. I really don’t see the new builds as maintenance free either.
I'm not picking on you in particular but rather the comments from many that modern new builds won't last the test of time. Why not? What will happen to them?For example, I live in a modern timber framed property. The timber frame is insulated, then OSB sheeted with the usual vapour barrier covering, a cavity, then concrete blockwork which is rendered externally. The roof is timber trusses, pitched with concrete tiles - standard stuff.
Externally, the render might fail - that can be re-done, as can replacement of roof felt and tiles. Internally, it's really easy to refit a bathroom or kitchen - you just rip off the plasterboard and re-sheet the lot pretty quickly and inexpensively in the grand scheme of things.
Why can't the modern new house become the old house of the future?
All houses and gardens need maintenance, it's just that a new build doesn't need it's first round of major maintenance for say 15 years from build, so the first owner gets a quiet life for a while until the ongoing work kicks in. However when it does need fixing, it'll be a bigger job as modern materials tend to be cheaper and less durable - softwood vs hardwood, for example.
In my experience a sorted period property doesn't need any more maintenance than a newer build. If you have a period property with inherent unresolved (or unresolvable) issues, or a mix of period & modern materials working against each other, then it can be a different story. Then again, there are many new build houses with unresolved (& unresolvable) issues as well!
In my experience a sorted period property doesn't need any more maintenance than a newer build. If you have a period property with inherent unresolved (or unresolvable) issues, or a mix of period & modern materials working against each other, then it can be a different story. Then again, there are many new build houses with unresolved (& unresolvable) issues as well!
Edited by PhilboSE on Monday 28th October 17:35
I agree with you the idea old houses are well built is just not necessarily true.
Some are some aren’t, same with new builds. Some are well made, others aren’t but all new or old will need some kind of maintenance. That’s just normal.
Sometimes I think quality older houses have better proportioned rooms and and better thought out design.
Some are some aren’t, same with new builds. Some are well made, others aren’t but all new or old will need some kind of maintenance. That’s just normal.
Sometimes I think quality older houses have better proportioned rooms and and better thought out design.
CrgT16 said:
I agree with you the idea old houses are well built is just not necessarily true.
Some are some aren’t, same with new builds. Some are well made, others aren’t but all new or old will need some kind of maintenance. That’s just normal.
Sometimes I think quality older houses have better proportioned rooms and and better thought out design.
I had a new build flat at one point and the bathroom was half the size it should have been due to builder realising a supporting pillar was needed. Tiny bathroom and massive long narrow cupboard that wasn't usable.Some are some aren’t, same with new builds. Some are well made, others aren’t but all new or old will need some kind of maintenance. That’s just normal.
Sometimes I think quality older houses have better proportioned rooms and and better thought out design.
On another part of the development the lift didn't go up to the "luxury" penthouse by mistake. They added some nice stairs from the floor below.
This was all supposed to be a landmark type development in a prominent location. The site was almost comedy at times.
Also a big focus on render vs brick/stone. Render doesn't seem so forgiving of UK weather or leaking overflow pipes.
Lotobear said:
drmotorsport said:
I've been living in a 100yr old house for the last 24 years. I've done a bunch of refurbing over the years and it's been a satisfactory family home for the kids to grow up in. But i'm now weary of constant DIY and gardening maintenance despite trying to always keep an eye on doing upgrades for a low maintenance future. My/our next house will be modern and well insulated and easy to maintain, and i'm well past the rose tinted spectacles of a old 'character' property that is just as shoddily constructed as the new stuff.
You are exactly describing why we have gone to a new build, something I thought I would never do. I've maintained our old place for the last 28 years and now want an easy life with cost certainty.I love and appreciate older properties but they just aren’t practical for me and my life. Happy to stay in one as a hotel or night with friends in wonderful older properties but the constant demands just don’t fit my lifestyle.
Getragdogleg said:
It's a good idea to remember that those of us who enjoy living in old houses are allowed to do so and that we may pay more to heat them but we do indeed pay.
Its not like we are using more than our share, we pay for it.
Like private school fees, there's not full VAT on it though....Its not like we are using more than our share, we pay for it.
Never had a house older than about 50 years but most have been about 25 years and did have one new build (bought off plan indeed).
Before we bought our current home 8 years ago we looked at new builds, the energy usage etc was much less and in theory the maintenance would be less but the rooms were tiny. One range, a builder in NE England, we couldn't fit our settee in the lounge, it was tiny.
I worked in an office in Jesmond, Newcastle for a number of years. It was a converted 3 storey plus attic home converted. For fun, we often used to try and work out if it would be possible to convert back or indeed into apartments but always came back to the constant maintenance the place needed. Windows leaking/rotting, RWP downcomers rotted through and leaking, the damp rotting the timbers of the bay windows, the prehistoric heating etc etc.
Before we bought our current home 8 years ago we looked at new builds, the energy usage etc was much less and in theory the maintenance would be less but the rooms were tiny. One range, a builder in NE England, we couldn't fit our settee in the lounge, it was tiny.
I worked in an office in Jesmond, Newcastle for a number of years. It was a converted 3 storey plus attic home converted. For fun, we often used to try and work out if it would be possible to convert back or indeed into apartments but always came back to the constant maintenance the place needed. Windows leaking/rotting, RWP downcomers rotted through and leaking, the damp rotting the timbers of the bay windows, the prehistoric heating etc etc.
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