Should I stay or should I go (now)?
Discussion
Regular readers may recall we have a shoddily-built 1970s timber frame bungalow. We’ve had various leaks in the pipework under the floor and a ton of other issues that go well beyond the usual trials of home ownership.
When we bought it, we did it up a bit; new kitchen, bathrooms, floors, etc… some of that work (esp bathrooms) was - it turns out - done quite badly (it’s very hard to find good trades here) and a while ago now, and it could all do with a deep refresh at the very least. It really needs a lot of the plumbing in the house replaced too and completely re-wiring.
But the latest is that we’ve just discovered the roof is shot and needs replacing (this confirmed now by 3 reasonably trusted roofers).
The cost to do the roof is c. £20k, which maybe isn’t huge in the context of building work but it’s another big chunk of money to throw at somewhere that’s always been a money pit built of balsa wood and wishful thinking. The plot, location and so on are all great (it’s on a decent plot in a posh bit of Buckinghamshire).
We’ve also often thought, as I know a few other PHers have, about getting a place in, or moving to, somewhere in Europe (probably France). Obviously Brexit makes that a lot more difficult, but now we’re thinking about that again.
So, there’s some decisions to be made, and I’d really value the insights of the PH massive!
a) We borrow/spend the money and do everything, roof, bathrooms, other stuff. Then we either stay here a bit longer and continue to have the benefit of the nice place. And if we sell in due course, it might be an easier sell, or fetch a bit more.
b) Or we could just spend a bit of money (even patching up the roof piecemeal) and just do only essential maintenance as we go along, (which is what we’ve been doing to date but has worked out expensive and stressful).
c) We finance getting an architect in and stripping the place back to its bones and rebuild it as something nicer, since we have to replace the roof and all anyway, or simply clear the site and build something. (I’m not sure the economics of that make sense though, based on the value as is versus the max value of a replacement house, even if we could afford to service the debt).
d) Or we cut our losses and just sell the place as is, considering that the plot is far more valuable than the house and that there’s a very strong possibility a potential buyer would just knock it down and replace it with something bigger/posher anyway. The we buy somewhere else, ideally leaving ourselves enough headroom to refurb it properly from the outset.
e) Or do we sell up and go for the ‘let’s try living abroad’ option: ie buy two cheaper places, eg a 1 bed flat in the UK and a flat or small house in (say) France. Should be (just about) doable, but very tight.
What would you do??
TL; DR: Money pit house in nice place needs a load more money spending on it; spend the money or just move?
When we bought it, we did it up a bit; new kitchen, bathrooms, floors, etc… some of that work (esp bathrooms) was - it turns out - done quite badly (it’s very hard to find good trades here) and a while ago now, and it could all do with a deep refresh at the very least. It really needs a lot of the plumbing in the house replaced too and completely re-wiring.
But the latest is that we’ve just discovered the roof is shot and needs replacing (this confirmed now by 3 reasonably trusted roofers).
The cost to do the roof is c. £20k, which maybe isn’t huge in the context of building work but it’s another big chunk of money to throw at somewhere that’s always been a money pit built of balsa wood and wishful thinking. The plot, location and so on are all great (it’s on a decent plot in a posh bit of Buckinghamshire).
We’ve also often thought, as I know a few other PHers have, about getting a place in, or moving to, somewhere in Europe (probably France). Obviously Brexit makes that a lot more difficult, but now we’re thinking about that again.
So, there’s some decisions to be made, and I’d really value the insights of the PH massive!
a) We borrow/spend the money and do everything, roof, bathrooms, other stuff. Then we either stay here a bit longer and continue to have the benefit of the nice place. And if we sell in due course, it might be an easier sell, or fetch a bit more.
b) Or we could just spend a bit of money (even patching up the roof piecemeal) and just do only essential maintenance as we go along, (which is what we’ve been doing to date but has worked out expensive and stressful).
c) We finance getting an architect in and stripping the place back to its bones and rebuild it as something nicer, since we have to replace the roof and all anyway, or simply clear the site and build something. (I’m not sure the economics of that make sense though, based on the value as is versus the max value of a replacement house, even if we could afford to service the debt).
d) Or we cut our losses and just sell the place as is, considering that the plot is far more valuable than the house and that there’s a very strong possibility a potential buyer would just knock it down and replace it with something bigger/posher anyway. The we buy somewhere else, ideally leaving ourselves enough headroom to refurb it properly from the outset.
e) Or do we sell up and go for the ‘let’s try living abroad’ option: ie buy two cheaper places, eg a 1 bed flat in the UK and a flat or small house in (say) France. Should be (just about) doable, but very tight.
What would you do??
TL; DR: Money pit house in nice place needs a load more money spending on it; spend the money or just move?
Had a similar money pit, found serious issues with anything we touched. Worked out cost to do everything and it didn't stack up and it was never our dream house. It was Edwardian so we expected problems but this was significantly worse / stressful than our previous 30s house.
Moved to a more modern place a few years ago, various things need doing but zero regrets.
Moved to a more modern place a few years ago, various things need doing but zero regrets.
Aluminati said:
Must be a serious sized roof for 20 k.
Any pics ?
Really? We were quoted £30K to replace the roof on our conservatory (by one of the 'leading' double glazing and conservatory suppliers). It's 5m x 6m.Any pics ?
After laughing at the guy and showing him the door we got it done by a local firm for £9K. I think £20K for a bungalow roof maybe a good deal.
To OP, I would sell up and buy somewhere that isn't a money pit, maybe get planning permission first as that should enhance the saleability and price.
If it’s a bungalow it probably occupies a decent sized plot.
You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
The roof is about 150 sq metres; quote from the guy we'd be most likely to have do the work was £15k-£18k, so I'm working on the basis that - in case of any unforeseen issues, we'd probably need to allow £20k.
The issue with the roof is that 1) the tiles (redland, concrete) only overlap by c. 5cm, rather than the 10cm plus they should so driving rain can get in; 2) the bitumen felt underneath has largely disintegrated; and 3) the pointing between the ridges has popped out here and there so there's a lot of holes/gaps. So it needs tiles removed, new breathable felt, new tiles.
And it's not just the roof. And if we keep sinking money into a place that will probably never be quite right, well - as all the votes for option d) show - that doesn't seem like a great idea.
But if we sell up and move, we couldn't afford anywhere with such a decent plot or location. (Which is probably why our place is a money pit. Should have learned that lesson from having run exotic old cars needing a bit of work, that are much cheaper to buy - and also much more expensive).
So - maybe that points towards knocking it down and building something new on the plot. But to do that, we'd need to take on more borrowing - not ideal or maybe even possible right now - and risk being in the classic "grand designs" scenario of having to sell it as soon as it's finished to pay off the debts, so having all the heartache and aggro for nothing.
Plus, we still have a bit of an itch to try having a place in France, which is probably the insane option and would mean severe compromises in terms of the kind of place (1 bed flat, at best) we could maintain in the UK on the budget available.
The issue with the roof is that 1) the tiles (redland, concrete) only overlap by c. 5cm, rather than the 10cm plus they should so driving rain can get in; 2) the bitumen felt underneath has largely disintegrated; and 3) the pointing between the ridges has popped out here and there so there's a lot of holes/gaps. So it needs tiles removed, new breathable felt, new tiles.
And it's not just the roof. And if we keep sinking money into a place that will probably never be quite right, well - as all the votes for option d) show - that doesn't seem like a great idea.
But if we sell up and move, we couldn't afford anywhere with such a decent plot or location. (Which is probably why our place is a money pit. Should have learned that lesson from having run exotic old cars needing a bit of work, that are much cheaper to buy - and also much more expensive).
So - maybe that points towards knocking it down and building something new on the plot. But to do that, we'd need to take on more borrowing - not ideal or maybe even possible right now - and risk being in the classic "grand designs" scenario of having to sell it as soon as it's finished to pay off the debts, so having all the heartache and aggro for nothing.
Plus, we still have a bit of an itch to try having a place in France, which is probably the insane option and would mean severe compromises in terms of the kind of place (1 bed flat, at best) we could maintain in the UK on the budget available.
Stella Tortoise said:
If it’s a bungalow it probably occupies a decent sized plot.
You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
This is a good summary of the situation, and a great idea for a (reasonably pragmatic) next step, thank you.You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
gregch said:
Stella Tortoise said:
If it’s a bungalow it probably occupies a decent sized plot.
You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
This is a good summary of the situation, and a great idea for a (reasonably pragmatic) next step, thank you.You say that it’s in a good location, therefore, in demand.
The house is a bit rough/badly constructed.
You are considering moving.
I’d be tempted to obtain planning permission for a 2 storey traditional house on the plot and, then, decide whether to sell as is or as a development opportunity. Your circumstances might allow for you to knock down and rebuild yourselves. This strategy creates more options.
The downside is that a new buyer might not like your design for the planning application, they could amend it I suppose.
Planning isn’t particularly expensive in itself, architect’s input might be more so.
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