Bi-folds again - DIY or get someone in?

[bmwmike]

Hello

I had been considering DIY installing some vufold doors, and we had an installer in to quote for installation as he was around looking at an issue with uPVC windows he had installed a few years ago, so wanted to see what it would cost for install only for vufold.

Anyway he advised against vufold as the profiles are awkward or something, and said either Origin or Smarts. He also suggested Rayner.

My understanding is that Smarts are made by Smarts, but Rayner make profiles and anyone can then make the bi-folds to order, is that right? So Smarts should be more consistent in quality but Rayners is down to the fabricator so might be hit and miss?

I'm back to considering DIY as its actually a kitchen to conservatory opening, square, and doesn't need to be water tight. It might only be temporary for few years too as we may replace Connie with extension and have it open, removing the door at that stage.

Any opinions welcome, especially rayners Vs Origin Vs Smarts quality?

Thanks

Edited by bmwmike on Tuesday 8th October 15:55

[J6542]

Any company that you buy them off, should be able to provide you with a full copy of installation instructions. As long as the base is flat and level and the hole is square then you should be able to fit them yourself. Providing you have all the tools and you don’t get a Friday afternoon set of doors

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

J6542 said:

Any company that you buy them off, should be able to provide you with a full copy of installation instructions. As long as the base is flat and level and the hole is square then you should be able to fit them yourself. Providing you have all the tools and you don’t get a Friday afternoon set of doors

You'd think.

We had ours installed by manufacturer approved installers. They didn't ever feel quite right until eventually they fell and jammed wide open.

Some other recommended guys came & did remedial works and set up and they are completely different.

Luck of the draw I guess.

[119]

We did a set a few years ago and it was a breeze.

If you can use a screwdriver go for it.

[technodup]

bmwmike said:

Not overly happy with this as I'm not sure what Raynear are - also a switcheroo without actually telling us is bad form.

My understanding is that Smarts are made by Smarts, but Rayner make profiles and anyone can then make the bi-folds to order, is that right? So Smarts should be more consistent in quality but Rayners is down to the fabricator so might be hit and miss?

No. Most of the profile manufacturers are just that, they make profile. Fabricators then turn it into windows, doors etc.

We've not fitted Smart for a long time but the last time we did they gave us various local fabricators to speak to, so they didn't make end items then (and from a quick look at their website still don't).

Companies will tell you a load of ste about 'quality' but I'd rather have a 'budget' profile made and fitted well than a 'premium' one made and/or fitted badly. I'm sure Raynaers was more expensive than Smart the last time I priced it but there are so many options it's hard to go like for like.

Speak to local fabricators.

[Indecision]

Same here, fitted vufolds about a decade ago. If you’re reasonably handy then crack on.

[gangzoom]

bmwmike said:

My understanding is that Smarts are made by Smarts

Our front gable glazing and door is made by Smart, but it took 3 guys who do these installs day-in/out pretty much all day to get the door+glazing put it. You could give me all the tools and years of time I still wouldn't have a clue where to start!

I get BiFolds should be easier but zero chance I would try to fit them myself, even though I know how to use a screwdriver.

[bmwmike]

Hello all

Just looking for a sanity check. Have had a couple of "quotes" for folding door supply and fit. One, off a fitter i've used before for just shy of £6k, and x2 others of less than half that, but subject to survey. The two that are less than half that price are asking for 50% deposit before they survey.

​I'd never, ever, ordinarily pay such a large deposit (or any deposit) before agreeing a final price. I had £6500 worth of velux done this year and the installer didn't look for a deposit and didn't even particularly seem in a rush to be paid.

Is this standard industry practice for 50% up front for folding doors or have I happened across two sets of chancers?

Thanks

[rossub]

Did I read that right? Deposit before they even come and measure up?

Deposit with order is normal, but to hell with paying out before that.

[bmwmike]

rossub said:

Did I read that right? Deposit before they even come and measure up?

Deposit with order is normal, but to hell with paying out before that.

That's what I thought too. Two different companies, 50% deposit please before we come and measure up.

Ironically the 6k guy is not asking for a deposit. The 2.5-3k firms are. It doesn't make sense to me unless I'm on the cusp of some elaborate online scam.

[technodup]

bmwmike said:

That's what I thought too. Two different companies, 50% deposit please before we come and measure up.

Ironically the 6k guy is not asking for a deposit. The 2.5-3k firms are. It doesn't make sense to me unless I'm on the cusp of some elaborate online scam.

I take 50% up front prior to survey. The final price won't change though as indicative sizes have been taken at outset. £2.5-3k is too low for an ali bifold imo, unless it's tiny/or they're not VAT/cash only or some other 'reason'. £6k is more typical.

I think anyone making/buying expensive and custom aluminium doors without some sort of deposit is an idiot. Only a matter of time before they get fked.

[bmwmike]

technodup said:

bmwmike said:

That's what I thought too. Two different companies, 50% deposit please before we come and measure up.

Ironically the 6k guy is not asking for a deposit. The 2.5-3k firms are. It doesn't make sense to me unless I'm on the cusp of some elaborate online scam.

I take 50% up front prior to survey. The final price won't change though as indicative sizes have been taken at outset. £2.5-3k is too low for an ali bifold imo, unless it's tiny/or they're not VAT/cash only or some other 'reason'. £6k is more typical.

I think anyone making/buying expensive and custom aluminium doors without some sort of deposit is an idiot. Only a matter of time before they get fked.

Thanks. Its a 2.7m x 2.1m 3 pane, Smarts 1000 - is 3k still too low and 6k about right? Its nothing particularly special is it, 2k for the door 1k fitting?

Also how would anyone get fked ? I can understand asking for deposit when the thing gets ordered or manufacturered, but survey is what, a tape measure and some time but not a significant outlay at that stage ?

Edited by bmwmike on Tuesday 8th October 20:26

[gangzoom]

bmwmike said:

Thanks. Its a 2.7m x 2.1m 3 pane, Smarts 1000 - is 3k still too low and 6k about right? Its nothing particularly special is it, 2k for the door 1k fitting?

We paid £3800 fitted for 2.4x2.2m 3 pane Smart visofold about 12 months ago. 50% deposit, rest were paid on completion.

[bmwmike]

gangzoom said:

We paid £3600 fitted for 2.4x2.2m 3 pane Smart visofold about 12 months ago. 50% deposit, rest were paid on completion.

Thanks. Was the opening there already? That's ballpark what I've been quoted, give or take. Less than 5.8k anyway. Willing to say who that was with?

Happy with it?

[technodup]

bmwmike said:

Thanks. Its a 2.7m x 2.1m 3 pane, Smarts 1000 - is 3k still too low and 6k about right? Its nothing particularly special is it, 2k for the door 1k fitting?

We don't do a huge amount of ali because of the costs (read- risks) involved. When we do we charge accordingly to mitigate the risk of a fk up. The door is £2k minimum and a one man band would fit it for £1k but a company running teams and paying taxes etc it wouldn't be worthwhile, unless they're doing volume and running smaller margins. I'd want profit to cover the door if it went wrong. Unless we're into double figures I don't touch aluminium, there's easier money out there.

I'm in Glasgow btw, location will come into it with prices.

[gangzoom]

bmwmike said:

Thanks. Was the opening there already? That's ballpark what I've been quoted, give or take. Less than 5.8k anyway. Willing to say who that was with?

Happy with it?

We used a local company up the road, with a a really inspired name, "Leicester Window Supplier" .

Very happy with all the glazing they supplied/fitted for the build, we actually paid the deposit before the any of the walls were up, so technically we did pay 50% before the final build survey. No regrets with going with Ali frames all round, they look (and feel) much better than the white PVC stuff that they replaced.

[bmwmike]

Looks great! Is that the visofold 1000 or 6000?

[gangzoom]

1000, 6000 would have looked nicer but we had a budget to stick to.

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 9th October 07:16

[GasEngineer]

bmwmike said:

rossub said:

Did I read that right? Deposit before they even come and measure up?

Deposit with order is normal, but to hell with paying out before that.

That's what I thought too. Two different companies, 50% deposit please before we come and measure up.

That seems crazy.

If I was asked to quote for fitting a boiler, I wouldn't say its going to be £3000, but if you pay me £1500 now, I'll come and check and tell you if that will be the actual price.

Customers would be advised to get at least three confirmed quotes. What would happen if the customer decides to go with another company or decides that they can't afford the work at all?

Anyone that works like that must be a cowboy.

[Liamjrhodes]

We have just had a set installed, £3300 for a 3.6 x 2m 3 door with integral blinds.
I did the building work to make the gap for them, it was 50% deposit on placing order then they came out to survey after the building work was complete then the rest on installation