Gas safety certification

[b14]

First world problem question incoming. We're currently in final stages of our house refurb and the gas fitter is imminently about to install the new boiler. All good. But, we have a swimming pool down the garden that has a gas boiler, fed from the house supply. It's a reasonably old install, with the gas pipe buried in the garden for around 100 yards to the swimming pool. Boiler is in a garden shed, with the flue projecting through the wooden roof.

Basically the gas fitter has made some preliminary noises about him not being happy with the gas pipe and boiler install for the swimming pool as it doesn’t meet current regs – something about the way the pipe is buried, and concerns about the metal flue through a wooden roof. Nothing firm yet but I’m preparing for him to essentially not sign-off the install without disconnecting the swimming pool feed.

Is it really right that if you get something new installed on the gas system, they can review everything else and condemn it because it isn’t up to current regs? I’m all for safety but this boiler runs nicely and hasn’t caused anyone any problems, and I don’t want to have to lay a new gas pipe and build a new enclosure around the boiler / even get a new boiler.

Thank you all

[mrmistoffelees]

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, the installation is everything from the meter on, so if part of the installation (ie a cooker, or another boiler) is causing an issue then it can cause the whole lot to fail. Part of the installation of the new boiler will for instance be checking that any leakage is within limits, measured in ppm. If it's above that then it's game over. The issue he's potentially getting at, for instance, is if the install for the pool will cause a failure then it's not possible to sign off the install of the new boiler.

[b14]

Thanks for that. I think I appreciate the point if there's testing done and it reveals an issue like the leak tests etc that I've had issues with before in previous houses. But does it cover off changes in regs - for example can he condemn the pool boiler because the gas pipe laid no longer meets regs? It feels a bit wrong that every time you have a new gas appliance installed you need to upgrade the entire installation to latest regs.

[119]

What has he said that is technically wrong or against the regs with the pipe?

[The Three D Mucketeer]

Last month I had British Gas round to upgrade my meters from SMETS1 to SMETS2 . He insisted on checking ALL Gas appliances in the house and stuck a DANGER notice on my Gas fire !!!!
The reason , the pebbledash had partial blocked the external ventilation brick outside the room , vent in the room goes vertically into the floor. . Which may have been valid , if I hadn't got floorboards and 1 metre void under the house with about 10 air ventilation bricks and a gale blowing if I go under the floor

Of course he left without getting the IHD working, and he was meant to be a SMART Metering expert !!! .... It still isn't working 4 weeks later..

[Mr Pointy]

mrmistoffelees said:

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, the installation is everything from the meter on, so if part of the installation (ie a cooker, or another boiler) is causing an issue then it can cause the whole lot to fail. Part of the installation of the new boiler will for instance be checking that any leakage is within limits, measured in ppm. If it's above that then it's game over. The issue he's potentially getting at, for instance, is if the install for the pool will cause a failure then it's not possible to sign off the install of the new boiler.

But you haven't answered the question about changes in regulations being retrospective. If the installation complied with the regulations at the time it was installed then why should it now be failed? It's not the case with changes in the wiring regulations so is it different with gas?

[mrmistoffelees]

b14 said:

Thanks for that. I think I appreciate the point if there's testing done and it reveals an issue like the leak tests etc that I've had issues with before in previous houses. But does it cover off changes in regs - for example can he condemn the pool boiler because the gas pipe laid no longer meets regs? It feels a bit wrong that every time you have a new gas appliance installed you need to upgrade the entire installation to latest regs.

You shouldn't need to - I'm only coming at this as a landlord that needs a good number of gas safety certs done each year so get chatting to the gas engineer I use. The questions worth asking are:
1) Did the installation comply with the regs at the time it was fitted? If yes, then why is it now a problem? It's worth pointing out that regs can apply retrospectively, but that's not the case across the board. Some regs like flues in voids, gas fires in sleeping spaces and so on which do apply retrospectively.

2) If it doesn't comply with the regs at the time it was fitted, then how was it passed as safe at that point (I'm assuming it was here, of course...)

It'd be worth looking up the flue requirements for the pool boiler - if it passes the manufacturer requirements then it's difficult to see what the issue is.

[Regbuser]

You gas installer is rightly assessing the existing installation against - Industry Standard Update 123: IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 with amendments July 2022 and June 2024: Gas industry unsafe situations procedure (GIUSP)
> https://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/technical/indu... - which is retrospective.

This categorises unsafe situations as:

- Immediately dangerous (ID), which if operated or left connected to a gas supply, is an immediate danger to life or property. To be physically disconnected, capped off and labelled 'do not use'.
- At risk (AR), where one or more recognised faults exist and which, as a result, if operated, may in the future constitute a danger to life or property. To be turned off at and labelled 'do not use'.
- Not to current standard (NCS), is currently operating safely but does not meet current standards. To be notified to the customer with a description of the improvements needed to meet current standards.

Therefore, they should provide a written assessment, noting deviations from the GSIU Regulations, and which Regulation, Clause, and Paragraph is breached, and whether ID, AR, or NCS.

[OutInTheShed]

mrmistoffelees said:

b14 said:

Thanks for that. I think I appreciate the point if there's testing done and it reveals an issue like the leak tests etc that I've had issues with before in previous houses. But does it cover off changes in regs - for example can he condemn the pool boiler because the gas pipe laid no longer meets regs? It feels a bit wrong that every time you have a new gas appliance installed you need to upgrade the entire installation to latest regs.

You shouldn't need to - I'm only coming at this as a landlord that needs a good number of gas safety certs done each year so get chatting to the gas engineer I use. The questions worth asking are:
1) Did the installation comply with the regs at the time it was fitted? If yes, then why is it now a problem? It's worth pointing out that regs can apply retrospectively, but that's not the case across the board. Some regs like flues in voids, gas fires in sleeping spaces and so on which do apply retrospectively.

2) If it doesn't comply with the regs at the time it was fitted, then how was it passed as safe at that point (I'm assuming it was here, of course...)

It'd be worth looking up the flue requirements for the pool boiler - if it passes the manufacturer requirements then it's difficult to see what the issue is.

If the installation has degraded or simply got very old, then maybe the fact that it was originally done to old regs doesn't do the job?

At the end of the day, the bloke whos signs things off has some responsibility for everything downstream of the meter.
You coul rent out your property and bad things could happen to third parties.
Fingers will then be pointed at the man who signed the gas inspection.