Garage 'Project'
Discussion
Anyone who has read my 2-Eleven thread may remember I spent a bit of time on my old garage earlier this year putting a bigger central door in, and centralising the ramp position. In hindsight this was just part of our campaign of flapping around trying to convince us that the house was our forever home...
I even added a hump to the ceiling for the future addition of a four post ramp.
Fast forward and inevitability struck, and we've moved. We love the new house, gone a bit more rural/remote but managed to snag a much bigger garage and enough secure driveway for trailer storage.
It's an old barn originally, half of it believed to be dated to the 1700s and half of it a bit more recent around 1930. The whole house has been renovated for sale, as it was an unoccupied farmhouse for about 40 years prior to us buying it. Under the renovations came a new roof for the garage, new floor and first fix of electrics, lighting and plumbing.
Internally it's been carved in two, approx 2/3 along it's length. There's a breezeblock dividing wall that's been added to make a dedicated garage, and then a space prepared for a future granny flat type arrangement. Obviously I need to undo that and turn it back into one big garage.
It's approx the size of 3x double garages all sat side by side. So roughly 15m long and 6m deep. It only has the one door right at one end.
I've not decided on a plan yet, but the 2-Eleven is currently off with Seriouslylotus getting some bits done, so if I'm going to make a mess.. I should do so now!
The two high level options are:
1. Keep dividing wall in place, and add a second garage door (or second and third garage doors) to the other half of the garage. Would give me two segregated garages, one approx. double garage sized and a other quad garage sized.
2. Knock dividing wall down, and drive the car in on a 90deg angle and park it "long ways" down the longer end of the garage. I could get 2x project cars in lengthways and then a third daily driver parked "traditionally" where the garage door currently is... And have ample room to work on all three.
In the name of time, I'm going to go option two for now. An additional door can always be added later to give me more layout options.
The yellow cars in this diagram are Lotus "111" sized, and the red car is "daily driver saloon" sized just as a reference.
2-Eleven splitter for scale
I love the contrast of the new floor/roof, and old walls. Would like to retain that aesthetic so won't be boarding it out or anything... but maybe something to preserve the walls/seal in the dust. The walls are very thick, no idea how it's going to stand up to moisture/condensation yet so will play that one by ear over Winter. I've never found the wanting for a heated garage that's totally airtight to be honest, favour a "well breathed" environment and a coat if needed.
The longer section of the garage is roughly divided into three via the roof truss things. Two of them have a central joist connecting the trusses together which house some new striplights, but the third section closest the end wall has no central beam. This gives great ceiling clearance for ramp fitment, but is currently lacking lighting.
Open to suggestions here, either two more strip lights mounted on 45deg angles on the two beams that go into the end wall... or maybe a larger panel(s) light that drops down from the apex.
Aside from lighting, there's a spur ready to go for some sockets, and the wiring all coiled up in a corner for it so have plenty of freedom of where to have a workbench etc.
The wall knock-through is not without complications. The floors are on different levels, the existing garage level being lower by about 100mm than the larger section of the barn which has been raised up with a damp course, so I'll need a gradient or raise the floor in the garage section. Gradient/ramp probably path of least resistance for now. The 90degrees turn into the garage is probably going to be a bit tight too as the door is not that wide. It's more like a 1.5x door rather than a true double. A Lotus should squeak round, but anything bigger would struggle. Thomas the Tank Engine turntable?!
Going back to Option 1, that's not without complication either if I wanted to retain two individual garages. Because of the higher floor level, I'll need a rather long (or steep) ramp buried beneath the gravel driveway, but there's some sewage/plumbing access in the way - so manhole cover would need to be part of the ramp, etc.
Posting this thread at this point to both get opinions/ideas, but also share the project. It's not had much attention yet due to other moving obligations, but I need to get a move on both to prepare it for arrival of the 2-Eleven, and maybe another project.
I even added a hump to the ceiling for the future addition of a four post ramp.
Fast forward and inevitability struck, and we've moved. We love the new house, gone a bit more rural/remote but managed to snag a much bigger garage and enough secure driveway for trailer storage.
It's an old barn originally, half of it believed to be dated to the 1700s and half of it a bit more recent around 1930. The whole house has been renovated for sale, as it was an unoccupied farmhouse for about 40 years prior to us buying it. Under the renovations came a new roof for the garage, new floor and first fix of electrics, lighting and plumbing.
Internally it's been carved in two, approx 2/3 along it's length. There's a breezeblock dividing wall that's been added to make a dedicated garage, and then a space prepared for a future granny flat type arrangement. Obviously I need to undo that and turn it back into one big garage.
It's approx the size of 3x double garages all sat side by side. So roughly 15m long and 6m deep. It only has the one door right at one end.
I've not decided on a plan yet, but the 2-Eleven is currently off with Seriouslylotus getting some bits done, so if I'm going to make a mess.. I should do so now!
The two high level options are:
1. Keep dividing wall in place, and add a second garage door (or second and third garage doors) to the other half of the garage. Would give me two segregated garages, one approx. double garage sized and a other quad garage sized.
2. Knock dividing wall down, and drive the car in on a 90deg angle and park it "long ways" down the longer end of the garage. I could get 2x project cars in lengthways and then a third daily driver parked "traditionally" where the garage door currently is... And have ample room to work on all three.
In the name of time, I'm going to go option two for now. An additional door can always be added later to give me more layout options.
The yellow cars in this diagram are Lotus "111" sized, and the red car is "daily driver saloon" sized just as a reference.
2-Eleven splitter for scale
I love the contrast of the new floor/roof, and old walls. Would like to retain that aesthetic so won't be boarding it out or anything... but maybe something to preserve the walls/seal in the dust. The walls are very thick, no idea how it's going to stand up to moisture/condensation yet so will play that one by ear over Winter. I've never found the wanting for a heated garage that's totally airtight to be honest, favour a "well breathed" environment and a coat if needed.
The longer section of the garage is roughly divided into three via the roof truss things. Two of them have a central joist connecting the trusses together which house some new striplights, but the third section closest the end wall has no central beam. This gives great ceiling clearance for ramp fitment, but is currently lacking lighting.
Open to suggestions here, either two more strip lights mounted on 45deg angles on the two beams that go into the end wall... or maybe a larger panel(s) light that drops down from the apex.
Aside from lighting, there's a spur ready to go for some sockets, and the wiring all coiled up in a corner for it so have plenty of freedom of where to have a workbench etc.
The wall knock-through is not without complications. The floors are on different levels, the existing garage level being lower by about 100mm than the larger section of the barn which has been raised up with a damp course, so I'll need a gradient or raise the floor in the garage section. Gradient/ramp probably path of least resistance for now. The 90degrees turn into the garage is probably going to be a bit tight too as the door is not that wide. It's more like a 1.5x door rather than a true double. A Lotus should squeak round, but anything bigger would struggle. Thomas the Tank Engine turntable?!
Going back to Option 1, that's not without complication either if I wanted to retain two individual garages. Because of the higher floor level, I'll need a rather long (or steep) ramp buried beneath the gravel driveway, but there's some sewage/plumbing access in the way - so manhole cover would need to be part of the ramp, etc.
Posting this thread at this point to both get opinions/ideas, but also share the project. It's not had much attention yet due to other moving obligations, but I need to get a move on both to prepare it for arrival of the 2-Eleven, and maybe another project.
Nice space and a nice problem to have....
Seems you have work ahead whatever you do so if it were me I'd be thinking about where I want to end up and working towards that.
Personally I'd quite like the one large space - you could get away with turning cars 90deg on wheel dollies to make the entrace space work, but I wouldn't want to be wheeling them up a slope that way so it would be a bit of a faff.
Seems you have work ahead whatever you do so if it were me I'd be thinking about where I want to end up and working towards that.
Personally I'd quite like the one large space - you could get away with turning cars 90deg on wheel dollies to make the entrace space work, but I wouldn't want to be wheeling them up a slope that way so it would be a bit of a faff.
I would go for 2 separate garages, 1 a man cave for your lovely looking Lotus and all the kit, flags, pics etc, keep it really nice and tidy.
The 2nd one for actually doing work in, changing oil, servicing etc. you can keep all the other stuff like bikes, lawnmowers etc in that one as well.
The 2nd one for actually doing work in, changing oil, servicing etc. you can keep all the other stuff like bikes, lawnmowers etc in that one as well.
EmBe said:
Nice space and a nice problem to have....
Seems you have work ahead whatever you do so if it were me I'd be thinking about where I want to end up and working towards that.
Personally I'd quite like the one large space - you could get away with turning cars 90deg on wheel dollies to make the entrace space work, but I wouldn't want to be wheeling them up a slope that way so it would be a bit of a faff.
Yep I'm with you on the single space, though I see benefits in having an isolated 'clean' area, that's always something that can be reintroduced later. More on that coming up.Seems you have work ahead whatever you do so if it were me I'd be thinking about where I want to end up and working towards that.
Personally I'd quite like the one large space - you could get away with turning cars 90deg on wheel dollies to make the entrace space work, but I wouldn't want to be wheeling them up a slope that way so it would be a bit of a faff.
As for the 90deg turn, I *THINK* I can probably squeak the Lotus around that corner just by driving it in. I have another project on the way which is even smaller/narrower than a Lotus so as long as I stay enthusiastic about lightweight specials - this corner shouldn't be a huge problem. That said, if I switch my enthusiasm to 90's Rolls Royces (for example) then I might be in trouble!
Another option is potentially to swap out this door for a bigger one in its place. If I opened this gap up to the 5m span I had in the old house/garage, then manoeuvring in and out becomes loads easier. This could potentially happen at the same time as raising the floor too.
classicaholic said:
I would go for 2 separate garages, 1 a man cave for your lovely looking Lotus and all the kit, flags, pics etc, keep it really nice and tidy.
The 2nd one for actually doing work in, changing oil, servicing etc. you can keep all the other stuff like bikes, lawnmowers etc in that one as well.
Yep that was certainly a consideration to keeping split garages. It's been a while since I've been patient enough to get really into detailing a car - but having a clean zone to keep something really nice does appeal. I had an FF until quite recently that was relegated to the driveway at the old house, would be a great example of a car that would suit a "clean" room. As for the Lotus, it's CONSTANTLY being fixed, 'upgraded', maintained, etc - it literally does not have time to sit pampered in front of a Lotus flag or dealership sign The 2nd one for actually doing work in, changing oil, servicing etc. you can keep all the other stuff like bikes, lawnmowers etc in that one as well.
If I do end up with a phase2 to this project, and add additional doors - then I can always reintroduce a partition. Potentially with some bifold/patio doors so I have visibility across the whole thing. That would be pretty cool.
Garden stuff does/will have another home. So I don't need to worry too much about that, but this new house is void of any loft space. The upper floor is essentially in the attic which is lovely for exposed beams and vaulted ceilings... less good for christmas tree storage. I'd like to board out 1/3rd of the garage roof to become a loftspace for house-crap. Probably the third which sits above the current garage foor.
Earthdweller said:
Lovely space and a lovely dilemma to have
Just out of interest is it listed if it's that old and would you need planning to add additional doors ?
Thank you! It's not listed, and it's already been hacked about a fair bit. From what I can gather from photos, it used to be an L shape. The "kick" of the L was removed as part of this renovation, and much of the brickwork repaired with reclaimed bricks etc. The end where the door is seems a bit triggers broom.Just out of interest is it listed if it's that old and would you need planning to add additional doors ?
The biggest challenge for adding a second door is twofold:
1) The floor is higher, so ramp up needs to be massive.
2) There are manhole covers in the path of where said-ramp would need to be. If it's to be a concrete ramp, that's going to need figuring out. It could of course be a wooden/metal "temporary" ramp that simply sits over the manhole cover but... aesthetics. Yuk.
I suspect a door will end up in the larger portion eventually, it feels inevitable. But with a time-sensitive project car on the way, I need to make it somewhat habitable for two cars pretty quickly.
Wow what a space, I'm hugely envious and I'm lucky enough to have a double garage 
If you're going to be doing messy car work, grinding, sanding etc then a separate showroom type space is much better.
I have the issue with a pristine Lotus one side and an old dusty oily 205 gti the other side.
Looking forward to the updates.
If you're going to be doing messy car work, grinding, sanding etc then a separate showroom type space is much better.
I have the issue with a pristine Lotus one side and an old dusty oily 205 gti the other side.
Looking forward to the updates.
I agree with the consensus that an extra door and a future option to have a clean/dirty area is worthwhile, so that is definitely the end goal.
For this winter, the garage is only likely to have two inhabitants. Both effectively projects, and both effectively summer cars. So the priority is just getting the wall down (it's not structural) so I can at least access the whole garage through the single door.
I'll use this time to play with layouts, get on with the aforementioned projects and get some other bits tidied up such as extra lighting, running sockets to appropriate places, etc. Might even add some WiFi and a TV.
Things have moved along quickly this week, and I've been introduced to the builder who did much of the renovation work on the house incl. the partition wall in the garage. He's had some jobs rained off this week, so luckily for me - he's going to come tomorrow for a look, and potentially start banging around!
In terms of ramps, I already have a high rise scissor lift type thing which is perfect for working on a Lotus. I've done loads of jobs using it, and pretty much everything is readily accessible. I don't fancy a 2-post ramp, but the thing I'm trying to get good at next is doing DIY alignments etc so a 4-post ramp alongside the scissor would be ideal.
There's only one part of the garage which would suit a four poster, and it's here:
Very crudely drawn, and not quite to scale - but it's the only section of the building which doesn't have a beam going down the spine of it (red lines). It has a 3.1 metre gap between wall and the first cross beam. 3.1 metres is not enough to get a full 4 poster ramp under it, but it is comfortably enough to get the "tall bits" of a car within it, potentially with the bonnet of said car sat beneath the first beam. This won't give me the full lifting height of most four post ramps, but will still get a car comfortably at working height, and maybe even be able to park something small underneath it.
If another door is added, having it right at the other end near the ramp makes a lot of sense, because then the ramp can be rotated 90 degrees and cars can be driven straight onto it/under it from outside. Aforementioned problems though would be getting a ramp steep/tall enough to get up to the floor level at this end of the garage, and its very close to the house which may make the ramp even more challenging. Still, this is likely all a job for next year.
Bill said:
You need an extra door IMO. Shuffling cars about gets dull pretty quickly. I'd also keep the two spaces but that's less of an issue (unless the wall is structural for the roof??)
Yeah expecting shuffling to be annoying, it was bad enough at the old house having to move three cars off the drive just to get the Lotus out of the garage!For this winter, the garage is only likely to have two inhabitants. Both effectively projects, and both effectively summer cars. So the priority is just getting the wall down (it's not structural) so I can at least access the whole garage through the single door.
I'll use this time to play with layouts, get on with the aforementioned projects and get some other bits tidied up such as extra lighting, running sockets to appropriate places, etc. Might even add some WiFi and a TV.
Things have moved along quickly this week, and I've been introduced to the builder who did much of the renovation work on the house incl. the partition wall in the garage. He's had some jobs rained off this week, so luckily for me - he's going to come tomorrow for a look, and potentially start banging around!
In terms of ramps, I already have a high rise scissor lift type thing which is perfect for working on a Lotus. I've done loads of jobs using it, and pretty much everything is readily accessible. I don't fancy a 2-post ramp, but the thing I'm trying to get good at next is doing DIY alignments etc so a 4-post ramp alongside the scissor would be ideal.
There's only one part of the garage which would suit a four poster, and it's here:
Very crudely drawn, and not quite to scale - but it's the only section of the building which doesn't have a beam going down the spine of it (red lines). It has a 3.1 metre gap between wall and the first cross beam. 3.1 metres is not enough to get a full 4 poster ramp under it, but it is comfortably enough to get the "tall bits" of a car within it, potentially with the bonnet of said car sat beneath the first beam. This won't give me the full lifting height of most four post ramps, but will still get a car comfortably at working height, and maybe even be able to park something small underneath it.
If another door is added, having it right at the other end near the ramp makes a lot of sense, because then the ramp can be rotated 90 degrees and cars can be driven straight onto it/under it from outside. Aforementioned problems though would be getting a ramp steep/tall enough to get up to the floor level at this end of the garage, and its very close to the house which may make the ramp even more challenging. Still, this is likely all a job for next year.
I wouldn’t recommend a four post ramp unless you have a very specific need for it. They are big and get in the way whenever you are not using them.
Best multi purpose option for me is an in-floor scissor, you can get full working height and great access all round but when it’s not in use it’s effectively not there. Effectively an upgrade from what you have now. Downsides are you can’t store another car under it and there is a lack of access to the underside but you would face that with the 4 poster anyway and it can be got round for most tasks as I assume you have already found.
I have this one https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/7335-flo... in my workshop plus a 2 poster.
On lighting, LED strip lights are excellent and give a great spread of light. Get lots!
Best multi purpose option for me is an in-floor scissor, you can get full working height and great access all round but when it’s not in use it’s effectively not there. Effectively an upgrade from what you have now. Downsides are you can’t store another car under it and there is a lack of access to the underside but you would face that with the 4 poster anyway and it can be got round for most tasks as I assume you have already found.
I have this one https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/7335-flo... in my workshop plus a 2 poster.
On lighting, LED strip lights are excellent and give a great spread of light. Get lots!
Bill said:
Or use a pair of steel trailer ramps when you need to.
Certainly not out of the question.Steve H said:
I wouldn’t recommend a four post ramp unless you have a very specific need for it. They are big and get in the way whenever you are not using them.
Best multi purpose option for me is an in-floor scissor, you can get full working height and great access all round but when it’s not in use it’s effectively not there. Effectively an upgrade from what you have now. Downsides are you can’t store another car under it and there is a lack of access to the underside but you would face that with the 4 poster anyway and it can be got round for most tasks as I assume you have already found.
I have this one https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/7335-flo... in my workshop plus a 2 poster.
On lighting, LED strip lights are excellent and give a great spread of light. Get lots!
Yeah can't disagree on the 4-poster stuff, but I do already have a scissor and have had great success with it. As I said earlier in thread, it's perfect for working on a Lotus.Best multi purpose option for me is an in-floor scissor, you can get full working height and great access all round but when it’s not in use it’s effectively not there. Effectively an upgrade from what you have now. Downsides are you can’t store another car under it and there is a lack of access to the underside but you would face that with the 4 poster anyway and it can be got round for most tasks as I assume you have already found.
I have this one https://automotechservices.co.uk/products/7335-flo... in my workshop plus a 2 poster.
On lighting, LED strip lights are excellent and give a great spread of light. Get lots!
The 4-poster I had specced up and nearly pulled the trigger on for my old garage was acknowledged to be a compromise to let me store two projects in the garage. I had it specced with dual jacking beams so I could still do 'corner work' etc. But it was a beast, and would have made the double garage feel very claustrophobic.
Moving to this new garage, I can potentially have my cake and eat it. I don't have the desperate parking/storage needs anymore - but I'm still working on my DIY suspension alignments a lot, and having a 4-post is ideal for that. I could have a 4post AND the scissor in this new space.
Perhaps instead though, I can look at some alignment tables. Can be stacked up in a corner when not in use - and can be used in collaboration with the scissor. Can get some fancy geo kit for the saved cost of a 4poster...
Two ramps are better than one for sure! 
I tend to do alignment on the floor with string and use the scissor to get the car up/down where needed for adjustments.
Like you say, everything has a compromise somewhere on cost/space/use, my workshop is around 8m wide x 10m deep and would just find a four poster too cumbersome.
I tend to do alignment on the floor with string and use the scissor to get the car up/down where needed for adjustments.
Like you say, everything has a compromise somewhere on cost/space/use, my workshop is around 8m wide x 10m deep and would just find a four poster too cumbersome.
Fonzey][Img]https://i.imgur.com/qHATd47.jpeg[/thumb said:
I even added a hump to the ceiling for the future addition of a four post ramp.
Good luck with the new garage project but thanks for posting up the "hump" it's given me an idea on how I can fit either a two or four post in my garage and actually be able to work under a car.I can stand up in the loft area
Bit of an update today.
I previously mentioned that I'd got talking to a builder who was involved in the house/garage renovations and he gave me a reasonable quote to bring the wall down.
Then, as the weather for today was forecast as torrential and he had another job rained off - he made the surprise offer to get it done today!
The terrible weather didn't stick to the plan... though.
I took a quick photo as he was setting up, serve as a reference.
Progress was rapid. Minimal power tools, just a chisel and a hammer made sure the blocks came off largely in clean individual pieces but also mess was kept to a minimum.
Eventually though, the dust generators came out as he trimmed the edges to match the inner lining of the small end of the garage.
Then suddenly.. it was gone!
He was barely here half a day. Skip filled, rubble swept up. Gone.
This is the step that next needs dealing with:
The rise of the first lip is 80mm, then approx another 40mm to get up onto the concrete. My trailer ramps are conveniently 80mm tall so gives me a reference as to what gradient/length rampage I'll need.
I previously mentioned that I'd got talking to a builder who was involved in the house/garage renovations and he gave me a reasonable quote to bring the wall down.
Then, as the weather for today was forecast as torrential and he had another job rained off - he made the surprise offer to get it done today!
The terrible weather didn't stick to the plan... though.
I took a quick photo as he was setting up, serve as a reference.
Progress was rapid. Minimal power tools, just a chisel and a hammer made sure the blocks came off largely in clean individual pieces but also mess was kept to a minimum.
Eventually though, the dust generators came out as he trimmed the edges to match the inner lining of the small end of the garage.
Then suddenly.. it was gone!
He was barely here half a day. Skip filled, rubble swept up. Gone.
This is the step that next needs dealing with:
The rise of the first lip is 80mm, then approx another 40mm to get up onto the concrete. My trailer ramps are conveniently 80mm tall so gives me a reference as to what gradient/length rampage I'll need.
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