What to do with a manky uneven limecrete floor?
Discussion
Hello, I need the help of the PistonHeads hive mind - hopefully someone has experience of a similar situation.
I live in a GII listed cottage. The dining room (about 15 SQM) used to be covered in asbestos containing floor tiles which were stuck down with bitumen. I have removed all of the tiles and virtually all of the bitumen though some stubborn patches remain.
I had hoped removal of the tiles would reveal a nice flagstone floor, but instead all I have revealed is an ugly, stained, uneven lime cement floor (I think it's usually referred to as limecrete).
I can't remove the historic limecrete because of the GII listing. I also have limited head room to lay a new floor - literally.
Having done a bit of research, my current plan is to coat the limecrete with new bitumen to seal and then use a bitumen friendly floor leveller (I've found a few quite easily).
I would then lay some nice stone tiles with a suitable adhesive and grout on top.
Is anyone able to advise or have any recommendations? I'm comfortable working with lime already and will do all the work myself.
I live in a GII listed cottage. The dining room (about 15 SQM) used to be covered in asbestos containing floor tiles which were stuck down with bitumen. I have removed all of the tiles and virtually all of the bitumen though some stubborn patches remain.
I had hoped removal of the tiles would reveal a nice flagstone floor, but instead all I have revealed is an ugly, stained, uneven lime cement floor (I think it's usually referred to as limecrete).
I can't remove the historic limecrete because of the GII listing. I also have limited head room to lay a new floor - literally.
Having done a bit of research, my current plan is to coat the limecrete with new bitumen to seal and then use a bitumen friendly floor leveller (I've found a few quite easily).
I would then lay some nice stone tiles with a suitable adhesive and grout on top.
Is anyone able to advise or have any recommendations? I'm comfortable working with lime already and will do all the work myself.
Instant Cynicism said:
Hello, I need the help of the PistonHeads hive mind - hopefully someone has experience of a similar situation.
I live in a GII listed cottage. The dining room (about 15 SQM) used to be covered in asbestos containing floor tiles which were stuck down with bitumen. I have removed all of the tiles and virtually all of the bitumen though some stubborn patches remain.
I had hoped removal of the tiles would reveal a nice flagstone floor, but instead all I have revealed is an ugly, stained, uneven lime cement floor (I think it's usually referred to as limecrete).
I can't remove the historic limecrete because of the GII listing. I also have limited head room to lay a new floor - literally.
Having done a bit of research, my current plan is to coat the limecrete with new bitumen to seal and then use a bitumen friendly floor leveller (I've found a few quite easily).
I would then lay some nice stone tiles with a suitable adhesive and grout on top.
Is anyone able to advise or have any recommendations? I'm comfortable working with lime already and will do all the work myself.
When was it listed? Did you need/obtain 'permission to remove what you have? I live in a GII listed cottage. The dining room (about 15 SQM) used to be covered in asbestos containing floor tiles which were stuck down with bitumen. I have removed all of the tiles and virtually all of the bitumen though some stubborn patches remain.
I had hoped removal of the tiles would reveal a nice flagstone floor, but instead all I have revealed is an ugly, stained, uneven lime cement floor (I think it's usually referred to as limecrete).
I can't remove the historic limecrete because of the GII listing. I also have limited head room to lay a new floor - literally.
Having done a bit of research, my current plan is to coat the limecrete with new bitumen to seal and then use a bitumen friendly floor leveller (I've found a few quite easily).
I would then lay some nice stone tiles with a suitable adhesive and grout on top.
Is anyone able to advise or have any recommendations? I'm comfortable working with lime already and will do all the work myself.
There could be a flag floor under the limecrete?
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
OutInTheShed said:
There could be a flag floor under the limecrete?
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
Like I questioned in a more obtuse way 
I'ts important to know when it was listed and what has happened after that date. Problem being even if somebody before the OP has 'altered it' it's still down to the OP to put back as was or get approval. The easy answer is to ask the Conservation Officer but I wouldn't go that route without knowing what's gone on in the past. CO's have a nasty habit of finding other very costly problems if/when they inspect!! dickymint said:
OutInTheShed said:
There could be a flag floor under the limecrete?
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
Is it possible that if the floor was not an element of the listing, then if you were free to remove the tiles, you're free to remove the imecrete and do something better? Or have you broken the rules already be removing the tiles?
I don't know, I''m asking the question though!
When I was a kid, there was an old cottsge In knew quite well, the flagstone floor, as I recall it, was lower than you'd expect, relative to door thresholds etc. Does it look like the door might have been sawn off when the limecrete went in? Any other evidence of floor level not being original?
I'm tempted to suggest 'keep digging!'.
Like I questioned in a more obtuse way I'ts important to know when it was listed and what has happened after that date. Problem being even if somebody before the OP has 'altered it' it's still down to the OP to put back as was or get approval. The easy answer is to ask the Conservation Officer but I wouldn't go that route without knowing what's gone on in the past. CO's have a nasty habit of finding other very costly problems if/when they inspect!! tbh I think too many people have the idea that only parts of a house are listed. Once its listed then everything is listed, the only issue is what a co is going to allow.
OP has already done stuff, albeit to something that is probably unimportant to the co.
OutInTheShed said:
Historic England says listing covers "most types of work that affect the 'special architectural or historic interest' of their home."
It would be a bit extreme to extend that to knackered floor coverings?
It isnt your decision though. I've seen far too many people claim that the listing only applies to things actually mentioned in the listing notice. It applies to the whole building and curtilidge.It would be a bit extreme to extend that to knackered floor coverings?
wrt knackered floor coverings, I used to live in a G2 house that had an outbuilding with what seemed to be a knackered floor made up of old bricks on soil. LBC to redo the floor was refused.
OutInTheShed said:
Historic England says listing covers "most types of work that affect the 'special architectural or historic interest' of their home."
It would be a bit extreme to extend that to knackered floor coverings?
Not at all I'm afraid as they would want it repaired/replaced with similar or whatever takes their fancy It would be a bit extreme to extend that to knackered floor coverings?
Just one of many examples I've been involved in......... Grade 2 listed pub conversion to a domestic house, owner wanted to put Welsh Slate (bearing in mind we're in Wales and the roof had to be Welsh Slate) chippings on the patio/parking area that was cracked concrete when we started. CO said nope I want it to be done in Cotswold pebble.....
Thanks for the responses so far. The house was listed around 40 years ago and dates in its current form to the early 1800s (there's evidence to suggest the house existed as far back as the late 1600s but it would have been 2 separate cottages at that time.
I haven't obtained permission for removal of the asbestos floor tiles as a significant number were broken and loose and I wasn't really willing to wait the several months needed for LBC given this is in an interior living space.
In my experience of dealing with the local COs, their default response is to replace with like for like if refurb of the original fixtures and fittings is no longer viable, but they seem to be relatively pragmatic compared to other local authorities. There have been a number of approved modifications to the house prior to my ownership which are not necessarily in keeping with the original building style but have improved the house (new modern roof, additional windows etc)
The asbestos floor tiles would probably have been fitted at some point in the early to mid 1900s but they clearly would not have been original to the house. I think the best course of action is to dig an exploratory hole through the limecrete to see what is underneath. I have a feeling it will be mud, but at least I'll know for sure - then I'll come up with a plan for something more sympathetic to the original house and discuss with the local COs i.e. flagstones with NHL lime mortar grout. I just resent the £40 I have to pay for a 30 minute chat with a CO...
I haven't obtained permission for removal of the asbestos floor tiles as a significant number were broken and loose and I wasn't really willing to wait the several months needed for LBC given this is in an interior living space.
In my experience of dealing with the local COs, their default response is to replace with like for like if refurb of the original fixtures and fittings is no longer viable, but they seem to be relatively pragmatic compared to other local authorities. There have been a number of approved modifications to the house prior to my ownership which are not necessarily in keeping with the original building style but have improved the house (new modern roof, additional windows etc)
The asbestos floor tiles would probably have been fitted at some point in the early to mid 1900s but they clearly would not have been original to the house. I think the best course of action is to dig an exploratory hole through the limecrete to see what is underneath. I have a feeling it will be mud, but at least I'll know for sure - then I'll come up with a plan for something more sympathetic to the original house and discuss with the local COs i.e. flagstones with NHL lime mortar grout. I just resent the £40 I have to pay for a 30 minute chat with a CO...
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