Best large scale builders of new houses in UK. Not bespoke.(
Discussion
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Worked on their sites a few times in the last 25 or so years.
Like Davidson’s they do build nice plots, not sure where that goes after the buyout, as Barratts bought David Wilson’s as well back in 2006/7.
Worked on their sites a few times in the last 25 or so years.
Like Davidson’s they do build nice plots, not sure where that goes after the buyout, as Barratts bought David Wilson’s as well back in 2006/7.
Edited by Promised Land on Monday 16th September 20:36
Promised Land said:
Well, that should kill off Redrow..
Aluminati said:
All round decent - Bloor Homes.
Best material quality - Croudace.
All, and I mean all the others are s
t on varying levels. Persimmon ( Who we refuse to work for) being head and shoulders above all when it comes to levels of sttyness.
I’d agree, most new builds are made with materials you’d never choose when self building, cheapo doors, hinges, electrical accessories etc., and that’s just the stuff you can see.Best material quality - Croudace.
All, and I mean all the others are s
t on varying levels. Persimmon ( Who we refuse to work for) being head and shoulders above all when it comes to levels of sttyness.I thought all the big house builders were as bad as each other?
All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Edited by wyson on Monday 16th September 22:39
wyson said:
I thought all the big house builders were as bad as each other?
All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Not so. I’ve seen Bloors quality director make a brickie firm knock down 3 units at first lift because he wasn’t happy with the quality.All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Edited by wyson on Monday 16th September 22:39
Croudace are the only ones I know to actually use lead on their dormers, instead of pre formed GRP crap. Real stone cills/heads etc.
Vistry are now amongst the biggest, buying up Countryside and looking at Crest Nicholson last I heard. They’ve also dumped timber frame due to multiple issues and going traditional.
The only reform they need to make is to have regulators not allow buyouts.
Basically big, high margin, low price monster can’t compete with smaller quality agile business, so buys them.
Oh look, more competition. Chomp.
More? Chomp.
Fair enough if there are hundreds or thousands of home builders but there aren’t… there are a handful of big ones.
Aside from that, actual enforcement of BR and council BR inspectors watching on a daily basis on the large sites.
In my narrow slice of experience BR seem to be optional (after stuff that keeps it standing up) rather than rules to adhere to.
The best one I heard about relatively recently was from SILs new build rental (no longer in).
The downstairs loo wasn’t flushing well. Turned out to be a few foot long snots of concrete in the pipe.
I’d be a multi millionaire in my work if I could get away with doing work like this all day.
Basically big, high margin, low price monster can’t compete with smaller quality agile business, so buys them.
Oh look, more competition. Chomp.
More? Chomp.
Fair enough if there are hundreds or thousands of home builders but there aren’t… there are a handful of big ones.
Aside from that, actual enforcement of BR and council BR inspectors watching on a daily basis on the large sites.
In my narrow slice of experience BR seem to be optional (after stuff that keeps it standing up) rather than rules to adhere to.
The best one I heard about relatively recently was from SILs new build rental (no longer in).
The downstairs loo wasn’t flushing well. Turned out to be a few foot long snots of concrete in the pipe.
I’d be a multi millionaire in my work if I could get away with doing work like this all day.
Ex Housebuilder MD here. I am still in the industry but running MMc business and social housing investment.
Housebuilder quality is often down to the site manager, some company can have good and bad sites.
However, if you are looking for consistency I would look at:
Hayfield Homes - excellent, they have good site managers and Chair/CEO who is really good. he was commercial director when I was land director at a major. Hayfield are probably as good as it gets with "volume" houses but you wont find many small cheap ones in their portfolio
Allison Homes - decent quality and growing, good hands on team
Redrow - probably the best of the massive builders, but site variations due to managers and product choice
Bloor - generally consistent
Miller - used to be really good at customer care and quality , but i am not sure now with various ownership changes
Spitfire - very good quality, Land Director used to work for me and knows how to find very good sites
Harper Crewe - run by ex Bloor CEO, excellent but a little niche
Housebuilder quality is often down to the site manager, some company can have good and bad sites.
However, if you are looking for consistency I would look at:
Hayfield Homes - excellent, they have good site managers and Chair/CEO who is really good. he was commercial director when I was land director at a major. Hayfield are probably as good as it gets with "volume" houses but you wont find many small cheap ones in their portfolio
Allison Homes - decent quality and growing, good hands on team
Redrow - probably the best of the massive builders, but site variations due to managers and product choice
Bloor - generally consistent
Miller - used to be really good at customer care and quality , but i am not sure now with various ownership changes
Spitfire - very good quality, Land Director used to work for me and knows how to find very good sites
Harper Crewe - run by ex Bloor CEO, excellent but a little niche
My 2p is go on snaggers reports, and as fine grained as possible per developer/site/phase if you can.
Ie, if snaggers has done others on site X, then you’ll get a good idea.
I also walked around on a big site we were looking at a house on.
Obviously partial releases to customers were there with access, and some unfinished and some at early stages.
If you go with someone with a basic understanding of building then you’ll be able to determine if the site is any good for your needs or not.
And small developer doesn’t equal quality either, as the plot of two conversions down the road from me suggests.
My snagger said mine was good for a new build but largely it’s still not great in my view.
Plus you can’t see all the stuff under the skin.
P1 of my development (different developer who went bust), all the houses had pointing removed and redone as it was washing out/failing.
It looks a bit weird now. But I worry about what the inner skin block work mortar will be like in 10yrs, if the exterior was failing sufficiently to get an insurer to fix it for the site at 2yrs!
Ie, if snaggers has done others on site X, then you’ll get a good idea.
I also walked around on a big site we were looking at a house on.
Obviously partial releases to customers were there with access, and some unfinished and some at early stages.
If you go with someone with a basic understanding of building then you’ll be able to determine if the site is any good for your needs or not.
And small developer doesn’t equal quality either, as the plot of two conversions down the road from me suggests.
My snagger said mine was good for a new build but largely it’s still not great in my view.
Plus you can’t see all the stuff under the skin.
P1 of my development (different developer who went bust), all the houses had pointing removed and redone as it was washing out/failing.
It looks a bit weird now. But I worry about what the inner skin block work mortar will be like in 10yrs, if the exterior was failing sufficiently to get an insurer to fix it for the site at 2yrs!
Aluminati said:
wyson said:
I thought all the big house builders were as bad as each other?
All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Not so. I’ve seen Bloors quality director make a brickie firm knock down 3 units at first lift because he wasn’t happy with the quality.All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Edited by wyson on Monday 16th September 22:39
Croudace are the only ones I know to actually use lead on their dormers, instead of pre formed GRP crap. Real stone cills/heads etc.
Vistry are now amongst the biggest, buying up Countryside and looking at Crest Nicholson last I heard. They’ve also dumped timber frame due to multiple issues and going traditional.
They had one issue with a bodged heating pipe that leaked in a floor (screw through it) - Bloor's response to a claim was deplorable and they only acted once I'd written a strong letter. Lots of other issues too - squeeking Weyroc that hadn't been glued and lots of other avoidable niggles.
They may have improved since then buy my overall impression of that particular house was of extremely lax site supervision and a poor end product - someon else nailed it above, it's all down to the site manager/CoW and whether he/she is prepared to make themselves unpopular with senior management.
Aluminati said:
Vistry are now amongst the biggest, buying up Countryside and looking at Crest Nicholson last I heard. They’ve also dumped timber frame due to multiple issues and going traditional.
The bit in bold is not correct. They have ramped up timber frame production now they own the factory that Countryside mothballed. Further most of their customers are HA's who are strategic partners of Homes England and that means they have to build at ;least 25% using MMC and the right timber frame meets Cat 2 MMC with a PMV of over 55%.I am interested in what you think the timber frame issues are. I am heavily involved in timber frame and amongst other things run a timber frame factory producing cat 2 MMC for our development company, a range of HA's, and contractors including Vistry.
I recently had the Group build director of one of the biggest volume house builders visit the factory as we can produce frame and cladding details that they cant get close to.
A standard open or even closed panel timber frame has been used by most housebuilders for many years. They are generally superior to traditional build in terms of tolerances, energy efficiency, embodied carbon, speed of erection, quality (especially Cat 2).
Lotobear said:
Aluminati said:
wyson said:
I thought all the big house builders were as bad as each other?
All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Not so. I’ve seen Bloors quality director make a brickie firm knock down 3 units at first lift because he wasn’t happy with the quality.All costed to the bone, sometimes beyond sense.
Everyone I know who has moved into a new build has a story. All of them have had to pay out of their own pockets to rectify basics and glaring omissions.
Barratt, David Wilson, Galliard, Redrow, all as bad as each other.
TBF to them, they don’t choose the system they operate in. The house building sector is ripe for reform.
Edited by wyson on Monday 16th September 22:39
Croudace are the only ones I know to actually use lead on their dormers, instead of pre formed GRP crap. Real stone cills/heads etc.
Vistry are now amongst the biggest, buying up Countryside and looking at Crest Nicholson last I heard. They’ve also dumped timber frame due to multiple issues and going traditional.
They had one issue with a bodged heating pipe that leaked in a floor (screw through it) - Bloor's response to a claim was deplorable and they only acted once I'd written a strong letter. Lots of other issues too - squeeking Weyroc that hadn't been glued and lots of other avoidable niggles.
However, while its not bad, its far from faultless, with bad patches of mortar now falling out the joints due to inconsistant batch mixes.
I've also since worked out, that our house in particular (out of a small cul-d-sac estate of 25 odd houses) had the ground slab built at least 2 brick courses too low......
There's also one BT socket installed in one wall with no wiring behind it, and one TV socket installed in a wall with no cable feed to the socket......
35 years ago when I was still working for Taylor Woodrow, my then boss and his wife bought a new Taylor Woodrow home......and being the a Chief Engineer for Taylor Woodrow Construction, his own snagging list was very impressive.....but, they couldn't have cared less, which given he was an employee of the same company, was shocking, so if he couldn't get anywhere as an employee, an ordinary member of the public didn't stand much chance!
aeropilot said:
We moved into a Bloor built almost 5 years ago, when house was then 6-7 years old. Bought from original owner. It's not bad, and better than the new build Redrow estate that was hugely expensive for smaller houses nearby.
However, while its not bad, its far from faultless, with bad patches of mortar now falling out the joints due to inconsistant batch mixes.
I've also since worked out, that our house in particular (out of a small cul-d-sac estate of 25 odd houses) had the ground slab built at least 2 brick courses too low......
There's also one BT socket installed in one wall with no wiring behind it, and one TV socket installed in a wall with no cable feed to the socket......
35 years ago when I was still working for Taylor Woodrow, my then boss and his wife bought a new Taylor Woodrow home......and being the a Chief Engineer for Taylor Woodrow Construction, his own snagging list was very impressive.....but, they couldn't have cared less, which given he was an employee of the same company, was shocking, so if he couldn't get anywhere as an employee, an ordinary member of the public didn't stand much chance!
The problem we have, especially with traditionally built houses, is that they are built outside in the cold English weather with a significant focus on cost minimisation. This inevitably leads to some plots where corners are cut or the attention to detail is poor.However, while its not bad, its far from faultless, with bad patches of mortar now falling out the joints due to inconsistant batch mixes.
I've also since worked out, that our house in particular (out of a small cul-d-sac estate of 25 odd houses) had the ground slab built at least 2 brick courses too low......
There's also one BT socket installed in one wall with no wiring behind it, and one TV socket installed in a wall with no cable feed to the socket......
35 years ago when I was still working for Taylor Woodrow, my then boss and his wife bought a new Taylor Woodrow home......and being the a Chief Engineer for Taylor Woodrow Construction, his own snagging list was very impressive.....but, they couldn't have cared less, which given he was an employee of the same company, was shocking, so if he couldn't get anywhere as an employee, an ordinary member of the public didn't stand much chance!
Keeping on top of it in management terms is extremely difficult. A typical region will produce 800 units per annum and be in competition with other builders for land and buyers. If you are not competitive on cost, you will struggle to even buy the land. I know that people read about massive housebuilder profits, but in tough times these fall dramatically, I recall one site that made £34 net profit, on an investment of £15m, because of the hit the market took in a recession. Some other lost money on the sites.
So the drive for value and efficiency is huge. We supply Cat 2 MMC to a range of housebuilders, they will always quibble about even the smallest increase of say £500 over a £5m order, and seek justification for every price movement.
What they are starting to realise, is that sorting issues is more expensive than building it right in the first place, and from my observations quality is generally improving.
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