Painting beams - Grade 2 listed
Discussion
We have been looking to lighten some of our rooms which have a mix of different stained timber beams, and the way we think it could be achieved best would be to lighten the timbers which are stained, together with re decorating and improving lighting.
Having looked at ice blasting and other techniques, we feel that the best and safest way to achieve this would be to essentially use a company who professionally paints the beams to give a natural wooden finish. We have discussed this at length with one company and we are happy with their replies and are going to view their work this weekend.
However, there is a lot of conflicting info on weather you are able to paint over previously stained beams (not bare timber) in a grade 2. The listed building consent advice note mentions the 2 below points which are relevant to the works we are proposing.
1 - 'Most buildings have undergone many cycles of internal redecoration, and most internal redecoration would not affect special interest, in which case it would not need LBC
This category includes redecoration of previously decorated internal walls, doors, windows and frames, metalwork, etc. It does not include new plastering or removal of plaster (see 39 below). Exposed timber, brick- and stonework, etc, both internally and externally, and features such as tool marks, carpenters’ marks, smoke blackening, decorative painting, plasterwork, pargetting or sgraffito work are always damaged by abrasive cleaning methods. Such work to timber and to other substrates is always likely to affect special interest, to need LBC and therefore full expert assessment before consent is granted, as well as expert handling.'
2 - ' Decorating surfaces which were previously undecorated, e.g. previously unpainted brickwork, stonework, or timber. This would usually affect special interest (unless in a clearly non-significant part of a building) and would therefore need LBC'
Regards to point 1, we have decided against ice blasting, therefore there will be no damage to the timbers and in fact the lightening will highlight the carpenters marks since the dark black stain hides them.
For point 2, since the timbers have been stained already I assume this also is irrelevant.
A couple of pictures to show you
Our home -
Example of work -
The company who do the 'lightening / painting' do lots of work in listed properties, and say that due to the fact that there are no changes to the timber itself, and it has already been stained, that no consent would be required. Whilst I tend to agree to this, I would just like to see if anyone else here has been in a similar situation? I am concerned that if I go the the listed building officer, they will make it difficult even though the interpretation of the advice shows that it should be allowed.
Many thanks
Having looked at ice blasting and other techniques, we feel that the best and safest way to achieve this would be to essentially use a company who professionally paints the beams to give a natural wooden finish. We have discussed this at length with one company and we are happy with their replies and are going to view their work this weekend.
However, there is a lot of conflicting info on weather you are able to paint over previously stained beams (not bare timber) in a grade 2. The listed building consent advice note mentions the 2 below points which are relevant to the works we are proposing.
1 - 'Most buildings have undergone many cycles of internal redecoration, and most internal redecoration would not affect special interest, in which case it would not need LBC
This category includes redecoration of previously decorated internal walls, doors, windows and frames, metalwork, etc. It does not include new plastering or removal of plaster (see 39 below). Exposed timber, brick- and stonework, etc, both internally and externally, and features such as tool marks, carpenters’ marks, smoke blackening, decorative painting, plasterwork, pargetting or sgraffito work are always damaged by abrasive cleaning methods. Such work to timber and to other substrates is always likely to affect special interest, to need LBC and therefore full expert assessment before consent is granted, as well as expert handling.'
2 - ' Decorating surfaces which were previously undecorated, e.g. previously unpainted brickwork, stonework, or timber. This would usually affect special interest (unless in a clearly non-significant part of a building) and would therefore need LBC'
Regards to point 1, we have decided against ice blasting, therefore there will be no damage to the timbers and in fact the lightening will highlight the carpenters marks since the dark black stain hides them.
For point 2, since the timbers have been stained already I assume this also is irrelevant.
A couple of pictures to show you
Our home -
Example of work -
The company who do the 'lightening / painting' do lots of work in listed properties, and say that due to the fact that there are no changes to the timber itself, and it has already been stained, that no consent would be required. Whilst I tend to agree to this, I would just like to see if anyone else here has been in a similar situation? I am concerned that if I go the the listed building officer, they will make it difficult even though the interpretation of the advice shows that it should be allowed.
Many thanks
A word of warning. We were purchasing a Grade II listed house when it became apparent the vendor had not got approval for some works.
They got fined £50,000.
In the investigation report they had also been advised by their builder that no permission was needed. He also got fined.
Now that's not to say you do need permission, but your best course of action is to ask.
They got fined £50,000.
In the investigation report they had also been advised by their builder that no permission was needed. He also got fined.
Now that's not to say you do need permission, but your best course of action is to ask.
The official listing does not mention any internal decoration / timbers etc.. I do understand that the whole property falls under the grade 2 listing so any changes would need consent. Question is if the proposed works do.. The company I am dealing with (unsurprisingly) said that most owners go ahead since you are not altering the fabric of the building and only redecorating, similar to painting the ceilings or other walls in the property..
James_P said:
The official listing does not mention any internal decoration / timbers etc.. I do understand that the whole property falls under the grade 2 listing so any changes would need consent. Question is if the proposed works do.. The company I am dealing with (unsurprisingly) said that most owners go ahead since you are not altering the fabric of the building and only redecorating, similar to painting the ceilings or other walls in the property..
Our listing mentions only the outside, no mention of any interior features whatsoever.LBC is in the words of our conservation officer at the time we moved in to our G2 listed house not required for any internal “cosmetic “ decorating UNLESS your property has an historic / original scheme that needs preserving.
Unless photos exist of the interior or are mentioned in the listing I doubt any choice of timber colour or treatment will even be mentioned - providing of course you don’t go for a silly colour !
The majority of internal beams in our house remain stained ( we haven’t touched them in 20 years ) but there are some beams in one sitting room that were already painted white.
The witches mark/s underneath the paint is still clearly visible and when that room has been repainted we just left the beams as they were.
Unless photos exist of the interior or are mentioned in the listing I doubt any choice of timber colour or treatment will even be mentioned - providing of course you don’t go for a silly colour !
The majority of internal beams in our house remain stained ( we haven’t touched them in 20 years ) but there are some beams in one sitting room that were already painted white.
The witches mark/s underneath the paint is still clearly visible and when that room has been repainted we just left the beams as they were.
rustyuk said:
A word of warning. We were purchasing a Grade II listed house when it became apparent the vendor had not got approval for some works.
They got fined £50,000.
In the investigation report they had also been advised by their builder that no permission was needed. He also got fined.
Now that's not to say you do need permission, but your best course of action is to ask.
I suggest that is a very rare and very different situationThey got fined £50,000.
In the investigation report they had also been advised by their builder that no permission was needed. He also got fined.
Now that's not to say you do need permission, but your best course of action is to ask.
IME it's best to minimise any contact with them
I would have thought it best to blast the beams back but I'm aware there's mess involved
I haven't seen the results of painting over stained beams but a friend had a plaster "beam" installed over a steel beam - it was shockingly good
Everyone touches it as they can't believe it's not genuine so paint techniques can be really good
Although the OP has a LOT of beams (looks a fantastic home) I'd hate to think of the cost to paint them
I haven't seen the results of painting over stained beams but a friend had a plaster "beam" installed over a steel beam - it was shockingly good
Everyone touches it as they can't believe it's not genuine so paint techniques can be really good
Although the OP has a LOT of beams (looks a fantastic home) I'd hate to think of the cost to paint them
Blasting we wanted to avoid, as even with a non abrasive method, damages can still occur. The painting technique seems the best compromise for what we would like to achieve.
It is not cheap, but its done by professionals so the finish will be as good as you can get, and quite a bit less than blasting..
It is not cheap, but its done by professionals so the finish will be as good as you can get, and quite a bit less than blasting..
KTMsm said:
I suggest that is a very rare and very different situation
IME it's best to minimise any contact with them
The vendors got caught as the people that eventually purchased the property contacted them about replacing the windows. An officer visited and noticed two beams had been replaced.IME it's best to minimise any contact with them
Edited by rustyuk on Wednesday 11th September 14:50
Edited by rustyuk on Wednesday 11th September 14:51
rlw said:
Freddie Fitch said:
Can you quote the wording of the listing?
Does it mention the interior?
Unless it explicitly says otherwise, that is implied.Does it mention the interior?
I think the simple answer here (if any planning issues were to potentially arise from planing officers lacking common sense)
Just state that at the time of the building getting the listed status this paint x colour was original before the current dark stain had been applied
Can be proven by just mocking up a bit and photo as evidence, evidence achieved from experimental sandblasting of a small test area 😁
Just state that at the time of the building getting the listed status this paint x colour was original before the current dark stain had been applied
Can be proven by just mocking up a bit and photo as evidence, evidence achieved from experimental sandblasting of a small test area 😁
well well well... I emailed my LBO as I was already in conversation about replacing a gas fire with a log burner and sent some examples of what we proposed together with an email from the beam companies historic consultant and had the below reply.. 'The lightening of the beams by decoration would be acceptable.'
Happy days
Happy days
James_P said:
well well well... I emailed my LBO as I was already in conversation about replacing a gas fire with a log burner and sent some examples of what we proposed together with an email from the beam companies historic consultant and had the below reply.. 'The lightening of the beams by decoration would be acceptable.'
Happy days
Excellent result. Happy days
Be good to see some photos when all done.
James_P said:
well well well... I emailed my LBO as I was already in conversation about replacing a gas fire with a log burner and sent some examples of what we proposed together with an email from the beam companies historic consultant and had the below reply.. 'The lightening of the beams by decoration would be acceptable.'
Happy days
Great - you seem to have got one of the sensible ones! Happy days
alscar said:
James_P said:
well well well... I emailed my LBO as I was already in conversation about replacing a gas fire with a log burner and sent some examples of what we proposed together with an email from the beam companies historic consultant and had the below reply.. 'The lightening of the beams by decoration would be acceptable.'
Happy days
Excellent result. Happy days
Be good to see some photos when all done.
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