Leak under shower tray
Discussion
I'm not sure what to do about getting this fixed.
We've had a (very) damp patch on the outside wall for some months now and originally thought the roof was leaking into the wall cavity and I replaced a portion of the underfelt myself, however the damp patch persisted.
I ended up taking a timelapse video of the outside wall to see where the water was originating from and it turned out to be adjacent to the toilet/shower waste pipe where it joins the outdoor drain.
The shower was only put in around 8 months ago.
Options are:
1. Speak to the bathroom fitter - he was a sole-trader and gave no guarantee so I'm not sure how interested he would be.
2. Go through house insurance - I've read the policy and it includes cover for 'escape of water' however, it says that if the cause is found to be bad workmanship then it wouldn't be covered. I'm curious to know what happens if they take the shower tray up and presumably some tiles as well, then find it's not covered due to poor workmanship of the original fitter then what happens? Do they bill me for the time it takes them to rip out? will they finish the repair (and bill me), or just walk away and say it's my problem to fix? I honestly don't know if it was poor workmanship or not, but it seems probable given the timing.
3. Just fix it myself, I'm a decent DIYer and happy taking everything out and fixing the pipe, but I would probably pay a tiler to do the finishing.
One question is, would the shower tray come up without damaging it?
Waste pipe runs from the toilet, under the floor/shower tray, and I'm fairly sure the leak is somewhere very close to the outside wall.
Outside damp patch, water originating from bottom left of the stone block
We've had a (very) damp patch on the outside wall for some months now and originally thought the roof was leaking into the wall cavity and I replaced a portion of the underfelt myself, however the damp patch persisted.
I ended up taking a timelapse video of the outside wall to see where the water was originating from and it turned out to be adjacent to the toilet/shower waste pipe where it joins the outdoor drain.
The shower was only put in around 8 months ago.
Options are:
1. Speak to the bathroom fitter - he was a sole-trader and gave no guarantee so I'm not sure how interested he would be.
2. Go through house insurance - I've read the policy and it includes cover for 'escape of water' however, it says that if the cause is found to be bad workmanship then it wouldn't be covered. I'm curious to know what happens if they take the shower tray up and presumably some tiles as well, then find it's not covered due to poor workmanship of the original fitter then what happens? Do they bill me for the time it takes them to rip out? will they finish the repair (and bill me), or just walk away and say it's my problem to fix? I honestly don't know if it was poor workmanship or not, but it seems probable given the timing.
3. Just fix it myself, I'm a decent DIYer and happy taking everything out and fixing the pipe, but I would probably pay a tiler to do the finishing.
One question is, would the shower tray come up without damaging it?
Waste pipe runs from the toilet, under the floor/shower tray, and I'm fairly sure the leak is somewhere very close to the outside wall.
Outside damp patch, water originating from bottom left of the stone block
No it wasn't, just tiled onto the plastered wall.
That was a concern to be honest, but I can't believe it is causing an issue to this extent - after using the shower you can literally see water seeping out of the outside wall.
Just to add, the shower tray is directly onto a concrete floor, so (I guess) less concern for full tanking.
That was a concern to be honest, but I can't believe it is causing an issue to this extent - after using the shower you can literally see water seeping out of the outside wall.
Just to add, the shower tray is directly onto a concrete floor, so (I guess) less concern for full tanking.
Edited by billbring on Thursday 27th June 21:09
You could possibly take a few tiles from the area you think the leak relates to on the outside wall, if dry then you could retile and grout if you have some spare, small
vibration tool would easily do this.
You’re not going to be ruining any tanking after all!
Tbh not tanking is a big no no in any shower area as silicone and grout eventually become unstable and allow water to pass.
vibration tool would easily do this.
You’re not going to be ruining any tanking after all!
Tbh not tanking is a big no no in any shower area as silicone and grout eventually become unstable and allow water to pass.
The issue isn't so much finding where the damp is coming from, that is virtually beyond doubt.
I'm interested in the best route to getting it fixed. Particularly my questions about the house insurance.
I guess I could add a fourth option of taking ALL the tiles off and tanking it properly – I suppose that's only a couple of days work.
I'm interested in the best route to getting it fixed. Particularly my questions about the house insurance.
I guess I could add a fourth option of taking ALL the tiles off and tanking it properly – I suppose that's only a couple of days work.
Not a plumber so take comments with a pinch of salt or whatever else
If it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
If it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
Those trays must be a nightmare to plumb so id guess its the waste at fault, how you go about it is tricky but if the tile grout lines and silicone seal at the tray look good then i feel your going to have to pull the tray.
Cant see any other option really especially on a solid floor.
Cant see any other option really especially on a solid floor.
B'stard Child said:
Not a plumber so take comments with a pinch of salt or whatever else
If it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
Some decent ideas that might narrow it down for the OPIf it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
Not clear from your post but have you determined if it’s coming through the wall of if it’s just the external pipe joints leaking?
If internal the id check the silicone seal to the tray first, if you are very lucky that might be gapped or have shrunk.Then if there are any gaps in the grout.
What height is the water relative to the tray height?
If it’s loads then I’d be most worried about the shower waste and pipe not being fully watertight, where does this run?
If internal the id check the silicone seal to the tray first, if you are very lucky that might be gapped or have shrunk.Then if there are any gaps in the grout.
What height is the water relative to the tray height?
If it’s loads then I’d be most worried about the shower waste and pipe not being fully watertight, where does this run?
Edited by bennno on Friday 28th June 08:32
The grout and silicone look good, there is no way there is enough water (if any) getting out of the shower area to cause the amount of damp I'm seeing.
I'm near certain that the main leak is at the joint where the shower/toilet waste meets the outside drain, which feeds down to where the round cover is in the bottom-centre of the outdoor photo. There may also be a leak behind the concealed control valve.
My current thinking is that I'm going to rip out the tiles and tray myself, then get somebody experienced in to fix the leak, tank the shower area and re-tile.
I just don't like the idea of getting the same person back to fix it, even though it will cost me a lot more to get somebody new in. It needs re-doing to a much higher standard and having some guy who's in a bad mood because he's being made to work for nothing doesn't fill me with confidence, especially when his first attempt has revealed significant incompetence.
I'm near certain that the main leak is at the joint where the shower/toilet waste meets the outside drain, which feeds down to where the round cover is in the bottom-centre of the outdoor photo. There may also be a leak behind the concealed control valve.
My current thinking is that I'm going to rip out the tiles and tray myself, then get somebody experienced in to fix the leak, tank the shower area and re-tile.
I just don't like the idea of getting the same person back to fix it, even though it will cost me a lot more to get somebody new in. It needs re-doing to a much higher standard and having some guy who's in a bad mood because he's being made to work for nothing doesn't fill me with confidence, especially when his first attempt has revealed significant incompetence.
Edited by billbring on Friday 28th June 10:18
billbring said:
The grout and silicone look good, there is no way there is enough water (if any) getting out of the shower area to cause the amount of damp I'm seeing.
I'm near certain that the main leak is at the joint where the shower/toilet waste meets the outside drain,.....
Does it leak when you flush the bog?I'm near certain that the main leak is at the joint where the shower/toilet waste meets the outside drain,.....
Edited by billbring on Friday 28th June 10:18
Does it leak if you run water into the bog to simulate the flow from the shower?
If not, fairly likely the leak is between the shower tray/trap and where the shower drain pipe joins the bog soil pipe.
It would be good to understand how you go about connecting the shower drain under the tray.
RTFM!
Do you connect the trap and all the pipes then lower the tray onto the trap and seal it up?
If so then maybe you can dismantle the trap/tray seal from above and check it's good.
It could be as simple as the trap/tray seal has come undone and the leaking water is running down the outside of the shower drain pipe.
First do what was suggested up-thread and confirm the leak really is drain side!
It may be worth contacting the fitter, because he will know exactly what trap is fitted.
So you can read the instructions!
We had a minor leak between a tap and a sink. Different makes of stuff not quite exactly compatible.
Cured by fitting a different 'o' ring.
Our shower tray is raised on a plinth, so the trap could be accessed by removing a handful of tiles.
B'stard Child said:
Not a plumber so take comments with a pinch of salt or whatever else
If it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
What he said.If it only leaks when the shower is in use then it's either waste, tray seal or feed from controls to shower head - if it was feed to the shower controls it would leak all the time.
You can identify which very easily
Don't use the shower - just pour a few buckets of water onto the shower tray slowly so it doesn't overflow the edge of the tray but all flows down the waste
If you see more water outside it's clearly the waste pipe
If you don't see water outside - block the waste and put as much water as you can onto the shower tray to overwhelm the edge
If you see water outside it will be the sealing of the tray to wall that has failed
Lastly run the shower into the buckets so the water doesn't go down the waste or over the tray or tiles
If you see water outside then you can be pretty sure it's the pipework to the shower head that is leaking behind the wall somewhere
The shower control is a long way away from the leak point - how does the pipework route from there to the shower head
up into ceiling and over?
Across and below the window and then up the wall?
Down to floor level and under the tray before up to the shower head?
Knowing the cause of the leak is key to how you fix it
Can I assume the window in the shower is the brown window we can see outside?
If so, there might be another option, water pooling on the window cill and flowing down the cavity and out at the bottom of the wall.
Actual said:
B'stard Child said:
You can identify which very easily...
Brilliant.Actual said:
Actual said:
B'stard Child said:
You can identify which very easily...
Brilliant.
The only other thing I’ve learnt over the years especially with bathroom, shower room, toilet or kitchen as you are refurbing one
think about how you are going to easily access any component to replace it if it ever needs it?
How easy is it to isolate the room from the water feed (hot and cold)?
Nothing worse than having to turn the main feed into the house off to fix something trivial like a leaking tap
Oh and never fit solvent seal waste pipes without testing them for leaks first - solvent seal pipework is much better than push fit but if you have a bad joint it’s better to find out before you fit it
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