Discussion
Living in a house with no mains gas we are reliant on a mix of wood and portable electric heaters and with 3 women in the house I don't think my marriage will stand another freezing winter. Oil seems to be the default option here but looking at LPG also. I realise the cost per kw/h is higher but it is still a huge saving on electricity and when you factor in lower installation costs, cheaper boilers, and the fact we are relatively light users it isn't so clear.
The other consideration is that while we will be here for a while yet it probably (hopefully) isn't forever so I'm reluctant to sink c. £10,000 (as quoted) into an oil tank up front when it's a few hundred for gas. The gas company has years to recoup its investment.
What are other people's experiences? Some people seem OK with LPG, others say avoid at all costs. Are my assumptions all wrong and am I missing something?
The other consideration is that while we will be here for a while yet it probably (hopefully) isn't forever so I'm reluctant to sink c. £10,000 (as quoted) into an oil tank up front when it's a few hundred for gas. The gas company has years to recoup its investment.
What are other people's experiences? Some people seem OK with LPG, others say avoid at all costs. Are my assumptions all wrong and am I missing something?
caziques said:
Also consider heat pumps.
I have looked into them but they're a bit if a non-starter in our situation. The house is an unusual construction with concrete floors which doesn't lend itself to underfloor heating, huge radiators etc and while it's reasonably well insulated for it's age it would need a lot more to make heat pumps viable, and the pay off time for the initial investment would be huge.I have the worst LPG scenario, in that there is no tank. Putting one out front would be difficult because of the space available and the restrictions on positioning, and there is no access to the rear. So I have a bunch of 47kg cylinders which have to be trollied through the house out to the back. It's a pain in the arse. Other than managing the supply, though, everything works just like mains.
otolith said:
I have the worst LPG scenario, in that there is no tank. Putting one out front would be difficult because of the space available and the restrictions on positioning, and there is no access to the rear. So I have a bunch of 47kg cylinders which have to be trollied through the house out to the back. It's a pain in the arse. Other than managing the supply, though, everything works just like mains.
That's another option if the installation proves too difficult. Have you worked out how the price compares to a tank?We have a similar setup to Otolith above. the house was built about 10 years ago, but the guy who did shall we say cut a few corners.
NE Scotland, so it gets pretty chilly, 4 bedrooms, myself and Mrs ABZ - She is out at work in the day, I work at home.
We have a standard combi boiler for central heating, hot water, gas hob, with 47kg bottles outside, with a switcher that changes to the next bottle when one runs empty. We operate the heating quite frugally - in winter usually a 30min burst first thing in the morning, if it's cold then another 30 mins at bedtime to warm the bedroom, which is above the garage so gets chilly. We also have a wood burner in the pretty large lounge that keeps us toasty in the evenings - Log cost is about #75/month.
Operating the heating in a mode that heated the whole house to a thermostat would be prohibitivley expensive - In Winter we use about 1.5 bottles a month, sometimes more if it's a cold spell - #100 a bottle these days. I have an electric heater and heated seat pad in my office, electric bill is #250/month, but that includes some EV charging.
I have had quotes in the past for a LPG tank, but they were from memory about #3000, the siting awkward and the payback would be lengthy.
If/when the boiler blows up I think we would probably go for oil, but we are used to the way we make things work now, even though it's not ideal.
NE Scotland, so it gets pretty chilly, 4 bedrooms, myself and Mrs ABZ - She is out at work in the day, I work at home.
We have a standard combi boiler for central heating, hot water, gas hob, with 47kg bottles outside, with a switcher that changes to the next bottle when one runs empty. We operate the heating quite frugally - in winter usually a 30min burst first thing in the morning, if it's cold then another 30 mins at bedtime to warm the bedroom, which is above the garage so gets chilly. We also have a wood burner in the pretty large lounge that keeps us toasty in the evenings - Log cost is about #75/month.
Operating the heating in a mode that heated the whole house to a thermostat would be prohibitivley expensive - In Winter we use about 1.5 bottles a month, sometimes more if it's a cold spell - #100 a bottle these days. I have an electric heater and heated seat pad in my office, electric bill is #250/month, but that includes some EV charging.
I have had quotes in the past for a LPG tank, but they were from memory about #3000, the siting awkward and the payback would be lengthy.
If/when the boiler blows up I think we would probably go for oil, but we are used to the way we make things work now, even though it's not ideal.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
That's another option if the installation proves too difficult. Have you worked out how the price compares to a tank?
Yes, significantly more - £75 for a 47kg cylinder works out at about £0.82 per litre vs the best rates of c. £0.50 per litre for bulk. I think there is usually a standing charge for the tank rental, but still.Interesting, thanks.
abzmike, didn't they offer the flat rate installation? Both Flogas and Calor offer installation for a few hundred quid. We have a relatively awkward set up but the guy who came out thought it wouldn't be a problem.
otolith, about £65/year for an overground tank or £90 underground. Seems worth it if installation is possible.
Looks like a lot depends on getting installation at a reasonable price.
Thanks guys.
abzmike, didn't they offer the flat rate installation? Both Flogas and Calor offer installation for a few hundred quid. We have a relatively awkward set up but the guy who came out thought it wouldn't be a problem.
otolith, about £65/year for an overground tank or £90 underground. Seems worth it if installation is possible.
Looks like a lot depends on getting installation at a reasonable price.
Thanks guys.
I've come from mains gas house to a new barn conversion (360Sq Mtr) that is on LPG (my first LPG experience). New house is bigger than old house but has much better insulation.
LPG tank in the garden (1400Ltrs) and currently with Avanti Gas at £60 annual charge and 46p per litre, I'm paying slightly less now than I was on mains gas!!
We like it warm and usage (heating and water for the 2 of us) is:
Aug - 84L
Sep - 140L
Oct - 168L
Nov - 210L
Dec - 294L
Jan - 364L
So far so good with Avanti topping us up when we get down to about 20% in the tank.
Jim
LPG tank in the garden (1400Ltrs) and currently with Avanti Gas at £60 annual charge and 46p per litre, I'm paying slightly less now than I was on mains gas!!
We like it warm and usage (heating and water for the 2 of us) is:
Aug - 84L
Sep - 140L
Oct - 168L
Nov - 210L
Dec - 294L
Jan - 364L
So far so good with Avanti topping us up when we get down to about 20% in the tank.
Jim
Our neighbour's oil tank split, and he took the opportunity to switch to LPG, but using the 47kg cylinders. Heating the house and water has proven to be a lot more expensive than oil, with a 47kg cylinder nearing £100 now.
We had a new oil tank fitted for £2,300 recently. Our Worcester Oil boiler is 25 years old and requires minimal maintenance. I would be very reluctant to move away from oil, which IMO works brilliantly for our old house. We spend about £1400 a year on oil (heating and hot water for an old 5 bedroom house with 5 inhabitants), which I think is good value.
We had a new oil tank fitted for £2,300 recently. Our Worcester Oil boiler is 25 years old and requires minimal maintenance. I would be very reluctant to move away from oil, which IMO works brilliantly for our old house. We spend about £1400 a year on oil (heating and hot water for an old 5 bedroom house with 5 inhabitants), which I think is good value.
otolith said:
I paid £375 for five cylinders in January, but the pricing seems quite opaque and to vary regionally.
Sweet - I'm £310 for three, delivered from Calor.I was with Flogas previously but they were so unreliable with deliveries I had to change. Maybe I should do a bit more shopping around. It seems a market ripe for a regulator to have a look at.
I'm in Portugal, had lpg heating when we first moved in, changed to biomass within 3 months. Cost prohibitive to run on lpg at now 120e/45kg.
Its not that cold here in the winters either, but going through gas like it was going out of fashion didn't appeal.
In hindsight should have went for split ac systems as we ended up having a solar array installed later. (maybe something to consider)
Its not that cold here in the winters either, but going through gas like it was going out of fashion didn't appeal.
In hindsight should have went for split ac systems as we ended up having a solar array installed later. (maybe something to consider)
When I lived in France I changed from oil to LPG and the supplier buried the huuge tank in the front garden. They turned up with a small digger, dug the hole and buried the tank and reinstated the lawn all in the same day. Don't know if Calor or Flogas in the UK would be OK with that, can't see any reason why not apart from "we don't do that not allowed"
ColinM50 said:
When I lived in France I changed from oil to LPG and the supplier buried the huuge tank in the front garden. They turned up with a small digger, dug the hole and buried the tank and reinstated the lawn all in the same day. Don't know if Calor or Flogas in the UK would be OK with that, can't see any reason why not apart from "we don't do that not allowed"
They do. I'd probably be looking at a vertical tank which makes more sense in the relatively confined space we have, but there are quite strict regulations about where it can be. J210 said:
Calor bulk just make up prices as they go along.
So do Flogas. They all try to tie you in to 24 month contracts and inflate the price 12 months in. Come renewal time they ramp up the ppl and try to get away with it.
Flogas also charge you if ever anything goes wrong with the regulators or other kit required to deliver the gas to your house from the tank.
It's not a regulated utility like mains gas or electric, and the suppliers behave accordingly because there is nobody holding them to account for dubious practices.
Pro's for LOT are
Right now it's far cheaper than oil.
Cons are
Normally slightly more expensive than oil.
You need to sign a 2 year contract, which is easy enough but a pain getting the cheapest quote.
If you don't shop around at the end of each contract you will end up paying 30% more than you need to.
If I was getting a new system fitted it would be oil based, having spent the last 12 year with LPG. I have learnt a lot and right now pay 43p a litre. Which is cheap, even compared to.mains gas.
Right now it's far cheaper than oil.
Cons are
Normally slightly more expensive than oil.
You need to sign a 2 year contract, which is easy enough but a pain getting the cheapest quote.
If you don't shop around at the end of each contract you will end up paying 30% more than you need to.
If I was getting a new system fitted it would be oil based, having spent the last 12 year with LPG. I have learnt a lot and right now pay 43p a litre. Which is cheap, even compared to.mains gas.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff