Rate my home heat loss
Discussion
EDIT: Oops, posted in wrong forum - have asked mods to move it.
We don't have access to gas, so our central heating is a wet system with a 6kW electric boiler.
Needless to say, this is proving to be expensive to run.
So I'm now graphing the temperatures in two rooms in the flat, and also have long standing graphs of energy usage.
According to my graphs, the two rooms concerned lose heat at a rate of approximately 1 deg C an hour, and the heating takes about the same length of time to replace that lost degree.
The room thermostat is set to 20 deg C.
I look forward to comments / opinions on this - is our insulation adequate?
Here are the graphs. (NOTE: the scales are different, so don't be misled by that).
Lounge:
'Room' (sensor is currently in the study)
And finally, the power graph. The temperature in the flat drops to around 16.1 / 16.5 overnight on average (outdoor temperatures are not currently logged electronically, but they have been between 1 and 3 pretty much constantly (night & day).
ETA: corrected temperature!
We don't have access to gas, so our central heating is a wet system with a 6kW electric boiler.
Needless to say, this is proving to be expensive to run.
So I'm now graphing the temperatures in two rooms in the flat, and also have long standing graphs of energy usage.
According to my graphs, the two rooms concerned lose heat at a rate of approximately 1 deg C an hour, and the heating takes about the same length of time to replace that lost degree.
The room thermostat is set to 20 deg C.
I look forward to comments / opinions on this - is our insulation adequate?
Here are the graphs. (NOTE: the scales are different, so don't be misled by that).
Lounge:
'Room' (sensor is currently in the study)
And finally, the power graph. The temperature in the flat drops to around 16.1 / 16.5 overnight on average (outdoor temperatures are not currently logged electronically, but they have been between 1 and 3 pretty much constantly (night & day).
ETA: corrected temperature!
Edited by TonyRPH on Saturday 13th January 14:20
What do you want from the forum?
I’ll guess that there’s not a lot you can do about it, except spend money trying to lower your costs. Difficult.
Do you think you’ll be in the flat for a few years?
Do you have flats above, below and either side?
Cheap overnight electricity?
Storage heaters?
I’ll guess that there’s not a lot you can do about it, except spend money trying to lower your costs. Difficult.
Do you think you’ll be in the flat for a few years?
Do you have flats above, below and either side?
Cheap overnight electricity?
Storage heaters?
48kWh per day seems a lot of electricity.
Broadly speaking that consumption can only be balancing the losses once you are up to temperature - therefore that must be about the heat loss too.
Sounds high for a flat, but obviously depends on how exposed it is, construction etc.
Since those are fixed values, the only thing you can do is improve the insulation.
About to go through a major project here - installing internal insulation in the 'old' part of the house that has solid walls. Very disruptive, but it won't improve unless I do something.
I would consider a heat pump to steal heat from the flat above. They would then be on here complaining about a cold floor
Broadly speaking that consumption can only be balancing the losses once you are up to temperature - therefore that must be about the heat loss too.
Sounds high for a flat, but obviously depends on how exposed it is, construction etc.
Since those are fixed values, the only thing you can do is improve the insulation.
About to go through a major project here - installing internal insulation in the 'old' part of the house that has solid walls. Very disruptive, but it won't improve unless I do something.
I would consider a heat pump to steal heat from the flat above. They would then be on here complaining about a cold floor
I think you have a fair sized home in sq m?
It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
OutInTheShed said:
I think you have a fair sized home in sq m?
It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
This is the kind of answer I was looking for.It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
Is our usage normal or high, and your comments suggest our usage is fairly typical.
The flat is 77sqM in total.
TonyRPH said:
OutInTheShed said:
I think you have a fair sized home in sq m?
It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
This is the kind of answer I was looking for.It's using 2kW to keep warm in cold weather. Say 48kWh a day.
My house is 5 bedroom, 25 years old, average 69kWh per day over the last 20days. It's been cold, we've had visitors so had the house warmer.
So, your place is not outside the normal range of the typical UK standard.
Is our usage normal or high, and your comments suggest our usage is fairly typical.
The flat is 77sqM in total.
Last 10 days avg 48kW per day for space heating (HW usage not included)
However Gas Boiler so costs are a lot lower than heating with Electric at 100% efficiency but as you say your property can't have gas so Electric is your only option
Was surprised that the Wet Electric Boiler doesn't seem to modulate in anyway at all - just seems to be 6kW or nothing.....
I assume that your energy usage includes other electricity consumption (we use about 10kW a day at this time of year)
There’s a bunch of articles about how bad UK property is at retaining heat - here’s one off Tado’s website: https://www.tado.com/gb-en/press/uk-homes-losing-h...
Ours (60’s 4 bed detached) varies a lot by room. We can’t have cavity wall insulation and our NE corner main bedroom drops a degree an hour overnight. Our kitchen, in the middle of the house, surrounded by insulated extensions, only drops a couple of degrees all night.
This week we’re using about 80kW of gas per day but not heating the whole house. Over Christmas we were doing 120kW for the whole house and it wasn’t very cold outside then.
With a flat, there’s other factors - someone on here lives in one and reckons he never turns his heating on as it’s kept warm by the other flats around him.
Ours (60’s 4 bed detached) varies a lot by room. We can’t have cavity wall insulation and our NE corner main bedroom drops a degree an hour overnight. Our kitchen, in the middle of the house, surrounded by insulated extensions, only drops a couple of degrees all night.
This week we’re using about 80kW of gas per day but not heating the whole house. Over Christmas we were doing 120kW for the whole house and it wasn’t very cold outside then.
With a flat, there’s other factors - someone on here lives in one and reckons he never turns his heating on as it’s kept warm by the other flats around him.
B'stard Child said:
<snip>
Was surprised that the Wet Electric Boiler doesn't seem to modulate in anyway at all - just seems to be 6kW or nothing.....
I've cranked the boiler temperature up to increase flow temps (although it still only achieves 50 degs C) - if I turn it down it does modulate.Was surprised that the Wet Electric Boiler doesn't seem to modulate in anyway at all - just seems to be 6kW or nothing.....
I do plan to turn it down again.
B'stard Child said:
I assume that your energy usage includes other electricity consumption (we use about 10kW a day at this time of year)
Yes, that's total consumption, which includes a 500w electric oil radiator (wall mounted vertical) in the kitchen, immersion heater (visible as the 3kW overnight on the graph) and network / router and server (total about 100w).During the same, we use about 10kW a day on average (this includes the immersion heater).
Tony1963 said:
What do you want from the forum?
I was largely seeking the experiences of others which would highlight if our usage is in line with expectations for the building.Tony1963 said:
I’ll guess that there’s not a lot you can do about it, except spend money trying to lower your costs. Difficult.
Very difficult indeed - one needs to be warm.Tony1963 said:
Do you think you’ll be in the flat for a few years?
Do you have flats above, below and either side?
Cheap overnight electricity?
Storage heaters?
We plan to be here for some time to come. We have flats above and below, although the flat below has been empty for several months, and the flat above, we're not sure if they run their heating.Do you have flats above, below and either side?
Cheap overnight electricity?
Storage heaters?
We're on Economy 7, and I try to take advantage of that by starting the heating as early as practically possible (don't want the flat too warm whilst we're still in bed). The immersion heater also runs on E7.
We've considered storage heaters, but have concerns over heat availability throughout the day and into the evening - and then of course there's the initial purchase cost and payback time to consider.
No ideas for a name said:
Figures from here;
average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
So our flat has 2 bedrooms, is supposed to be well insulated, and yet your consumption (in kW) is not massively higher than ours.average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Saturday 13th January 11:31
Interesting.
TonyRPH said:
B'stard Child said:
<snip>
Was surprised that the Wet Electric Boiler doesn't seem to modulate in anyway at all - just seems to be 6kW or nothing.....
I've cranked the boiler temperature up to increase flow temps (although it still only achieves 50 degs C) - if I turn it down it does modulate.Was surprised that the Wet Electric Boiler doesn't seem to modulate in anyway at all - just seems to be 6kW or nothing.....
I do plan to turn it down again.
It's not going to make much difference to your overall consumption if you heat longer and lower but I guess if you are taking advantage of E7 costs it's going to help cost wise
Have you done a calculation to see if you are actually saving with E7 - you are paying a sizeable premium for electric when you aren't using E7
We had E7 (despite having Gas CH) for 30 years but last year following the increases in energy costs and a few fag paper calcs it was pretty clear the day time consumption was costing more than we were saving with the E7 so we ditched it
TonyRPH said:
B'stard Child said:
I assume that your energy usage includes other electricity consumption (we use about 10kW a day at this time of year)
Yes, that's total consumption, which includes a 500w electric oil radiator (wall mounted vertical) in the kitchen, immersion heater (visible as the 3kW overnight on the graph) and network / router and server (total about 100w).During the same, we use about 10kW a day on average (this includes the immersion heater).
B'stard Child said:
OK you've turned it up because the property is not reaching temperature so you currently need 50 deg flow??
It was a test to see if higher flow temps meant the boiler would run for a shorter period thus heating the flat faster saving power.I'm not sure it's made a lot of difference, but I have actually just turned it back down to see if it modulates again, and see if that reduces overall consumption (which theoretically it should).
B'stard Child said:
It's not going to make much difference to your overall consumption if you heat longer and lower but I guess if you are taking advantage of E7 costs it's going to help cost wise
Have you done a calculation to see if you are actually saving with E7 - you are paying a sizeable premium for electric when you aren't using E7
We had E7 (despite having Gas CH) for 30 years but last year following the increases in energy costs and a few fag paper calcs it was pretty clear the day time consumption was costing more than we were saving with the E7 so we ditched it
That's interesting, I didn't consider that not having E7 but a flat daily rate would be cheaper in our circumstances - I shall look into this!Have you done a calculation to see if you are actually saving with E7 - you are paying a sizeable premium for electric when you aren't using E7
We had E7 (despite having Gas CH) for 30 years but last year following the increases in energy costs and a few fag paper calcs it was pretty clear the day time consumption was costing more than we were saving with the E7 so we ditched it
B'stard Child said:
OK so similar base line consumption daily to me
Thanks for the suggestion re: E7.
TonyRPH said:
B'stard Child said:
OK you've turned it up because the property is not reaching temperature so you currently need 50 deg flow??
It was a test to see if higher flow temps meant the boiler would run for a shorter period thus heating the flat faster saving power.I'm not sure it's made a lot of difference, but I have actually just turned it back down to see if it modulates again, and see if that reduces overall consumption (which theoretically it should).
TonyRPH said:
B'stard Child said:
It's not going to make much difference to your overall consumption if you heat longer and lower but I guess if you are taking advantage of E7 costs it's going to help cost wise
Have you done a calculation to see if you are actually saving with E7 - you are paying a sizeable premium for electric when you aren't using E7
We had E7 (despite having Gas CH) for 30 years but last year following the increases in energy costs and a few fag paper calcs it was pretty clear the day time consumption was costing more than we were saving with the E7 so we ditched it
That's interesting, I didn't consider that not having E7 but a flat daily rate would be cheaper in our circumstances - I shall look into this!Have you done a calculation to see if you are actually saving with E7 - you are paying a sizeable premium for electric when you aren't using E7
We had E7 (despite having Gas CH) for 30 years but last year following the increases in energy costs and a few fag paper calcs it was pretty clear the day time consumption was costing more than we were saving with the E7 so we ditched it
Thanks for the suggestion re: E7.
no probs - It was the comment that you don't run the heating much at night that made me think you really should evaluate if it's the right thing to have E7 - it may well be a saving but for us it was costing us £200 more a year to have E7 rather than a single flat rateWe did try to maximise laundry and dishwasher in the E7 hours but it was still costing more than a flat rate
My E7 Calcs from late 2022
At this point E7 % wise had actually got cheaper but the day rate had increased a lot so our 23% usage of E7 was just 7% of the total electricity charges and the day time rate at 77% usage was now 93% of the cost
As I said do the calcs for yourself
At this point E7 % wise had actually got cheaper but the day rate had increased a lot so our 23% usage of E7 was just 7% of the total electricity charges and the day time rate at 77% usage was now 93% of the cost
| Period / Rate | E7 | Day Rate | Total | E7 % | DR % |
| Last 12 mths | 838 | 2,867 | 3,705 | 23% | 77% |
| SVR (Oct 2022) | £0.1165 | £0.4670 | £1,436 | 7% | 93% |
| Period / Rate | Day Rate | Total |
| Last 12 mths | 3,705 | 3,705 |
| Single Rate SVR (Oct 2022) | £0.3339 | £1,237 |
| Saving | - | £199 |
As I said do the calcs for yourself
TonyRPH said:
No ideas for a name said:
Figures from here;
average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
So our flat has 2 bedrooms, is supposed to be well insulated, and yet your consumption (in kW) is not massively higher than ours.average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Saturday 13th January 11:31
Interesting.
The 85kWh per day over the last few days is gas only.
We have another 24kWh of electricity - but none of that is going in to heating (most actually runs a server rack, but that is another story).
About 9kWh of gas does the water heating (included in the 85).
But having looked at the EvoHome stuff, for various reasons, about half of the house is effectively off at present.
Some spare rooms are actually sitting at 10 degrees and so effectively not heated.
In which case, our 'real' figure if we were properly using all the space would probably be double.
Therefore, maybe your 48kWh isn't as bad as I thought initially.
No ideas for a name said:
TonyRPH said:
No ideas for a name said:
Figures from here;
average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
So our flat has 2 bedrooms, is supposed to be well insulated, and yet your consumption (in kW) is not massively higher than ours.average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
Interesting.
The 85kWh per day over the last few days is gas only.
We have another 24kWh of electricity - but none of that is going in to heating (most actually runs a server rack, but that is another story).
About 9kWh of gas does the water heating (included in the 85).
But having looked at the EvoHome stuff, for various reasons, about half of the house is effectively off at present.
Some spare rooms are actually sitting at 10 degrees and so effectively not heated.
In which case, our 'real' figure if we were properly using all the space would probably be double.
Therefore, maybe your 48kWh isn't as bad as I thought initially.
Based on your original info: "200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated." and bearing mind the outside temps we've had this week, your gas consumption seemed remarkably low.
Where is the server rack? You could be harvesting the heat off that.
Sheepshanks said:
No ideas for a name said:
TonyRPH said:
No ideas for a name said:
Figures from here;
average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
So our flat has 2 bedrooms, is supposed to be well insulated, and yet your consumption (in kW) is not massively higher than ours.average 85kWh of gas (so not 100% efficient)
200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated.
ETA: EvoHome, fully zoned - some rooms 'off' at the moment.
Interesting.
The 85kWh per day over the last few days is gas only.
We have another 24kWh of electricity - but none of that is going in to heating (most actually runs a server rack, but that is another story).
About 9kWh of gas does the water heating (included in the 85).
But having looked at the EvoHome stuff, for various reasons, about half of the house is effectively off at present.
Some spare rooms are actually sitting at 10 degrees and so effectively not heated.
In which case, our 'real' figure if we were properly using all the space would probably be double.
Therefore, maybe your 48kWh isn't as bad as I thought initially.
Based on your original info: "200m2, 1880's 4 bed. Really not very well insulated." and bearing mind the outside temps we've had this week, your gas consumption seemed remarkably low.
Where is the server rack? You could be harvesting the heat off that.
Yes, that is why I re-looked at it. I pulled the figures from my logged totals - then though, hang on, this isn't the full story.
It is on 'all the time', but Evohome has 11 zones and a profile for each zone through the day.
After 22:00 it is effectively off until around 06:00 as it has a 10 degree target. It doesn't get down to that, but no more heat is called for in those zones.
Working from home, presently only the office, hallway and kitchen are on 'properly'
Targets for the three spare bedrooms are low, but with a daily boost to keep them dry.
So, yes, reassesed figure mean we might only be properly heating half the house for half the time as it were, so our 'real' figures for comparison would be about 4 times what they are actually measuring.
So, again the 48kWh quoted by the OP isn't as bad as I initially thought. They are heating all of their flat!
No ideas for a name said:
<snip>
We have another 24kWh of electricity - but none of that is going in to heating (most actually runs a server rack, but that is another story).
About 6 - 7 years ago I too ran a server rack in a separate room in the garage. It was drawing a steady 1kW. I shudder to think what that would cost now....We have another 24kWh of electricity - but none of that is going in to heating (most actually runs a server rack, but that is another story).
No ideas for a name said:
<snip>
Therefore, maybe your 48kWh isn't as bad as I thought initially.
Thanks, so our Achilles heel really is the cost of electricity.Therefore, maybe your 48kWh isn't as bad as I thought initially.
We are looking at replacing the glazing with some high efficiency units as well, as the existing glazing is the cheapest of the cheap - and doesn't appear to be very effective at all.
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