Octopus energy company. Anyone use 'em?
Discussion
MrJuice said:
SpidersWeb said:
Gas is still around 20% cheaper on Tracker even after the July price cap drop, and although Electricity isn't worth it there is still Agile.
truebut how much gas are you using per day? I am using about 50p worth
SpidersWeb said:
MrJuice said:
SpidersWeb said:
Gas is still around 20% cheaper on Tracker even after the July price cap drop, and although Electricity isn't worth it there is still Agile.
truebut how much gas are you using per day? I am using about 50p worth
Greshamst said:
Is gas tracker definitely worth it?
Moved house recently and the electricity is on agile, but gas still on the regular variable tariff.
Looks like generally it’s cheaper than variable, but could there be a sting come winter? Have moved from a flat that required the heating on for about 10 days a year, to a house that seems like it may be quite cold in winter so slightly apprehensive as not had a winter here before.
The last time Tracker was higher than Flexible was back in about December 2022, when it was considerably higher but only for about a fortnight or so. That was, of course, the winter when the whole world was grappling with the conundrum of doing without Russian gas (which affects electricity substantially as well).Moved house recently and the electricity is on agile, but gas still on the regular variable tariff.
Looks like generally it’s cheaper than variable, but could there be a sting come winter? Have moved from a flat that required the heating on for about 10 days a year, to a house that seems like it may be quite cold in winter so slightly apprehensive as not had a winter here before.
This winter just gone, Tracker remained significantly below Flexible, and has been significantly less up to the last few months when the price cap has come down and narrowed the difference. The cap is expected to rise in October, but that’s also when Tracker is likely to rise.
do we think octopus are passing on all the savings they can to tracker customers?
I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
MrJuice said:
do we think octopus are passing on all the savings they can to tracker customers?
I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
You can see how they form their costs here: https://octopus.energy/api/v1/tracker/G-1R-SILVER-... So, for instance, for today, it's formed of:I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
"unit_rate": 4.7985,
"breakdown": {
"unit_charge": {
"Wholesale cost": 2.7098,
"Environmental & social obligations": 0,
"Delivery & networks": 1.5516,
"100% green": 0,
"Administration, financing & margin": 0.3086,
"VAT": 0.2285
},
MrJuice said:
do we think octopus are passing on all the savings they can to tracker customers?
I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
Their FAQ gives the fixed formula to apply against the wholesale price and says - I don't have any proof but it seems to me they are not. I think they have worked out that even a 10% delta from capped price is acceptable to most tracker punters. They can throw in the odd day of 30% less and that will keep the subscribers keen and yearning for more and keep them on tracker
"For electricity, the wholesale price W, is the baseload average price (in p/kWh) from the previous day's N2EX GB Day-Ahead auction. For gas, the W is the day ahead or weekend price in p/therm on the previous working day from Marex Spectron."
Plus for example the current Tracker calculation for Eastern England is
Electricity unit charge: (W * 1.2492) + 12.0750 p per kWh
Gas unit charge: (W * 0.03604) + 1.7448 p per kWh
https://octopus.energy/tracker-faqs/
And so as the formula is fixed, then unless you think they are either rigging the N2EX GB Day-Ahead auction prices and the Marex Spectron prices, or are putting in false figures into the calculation(!) then they have no mean of 'rigging' the numbers.
fair enough
the other thing is when they added 2p per kwh to the price of leccy. I think there was an increase in gas too.
since then, the number of 18p or less days for leccy has reduced significantly. I don't think they were losing money before on this tariff. now, it seems that much more profitable for them
the other thing is when they added 2p per kwh to the price of leccy. I think there was an increase in gas too.
since then, the number of 18p or less days for leccy has reduced significantly. I don't think they were losing money before on this tariff. now, it seems that much more profitable for them
MrJuice said:
I don't think they were losing money before on this tariff. now, it seems that much more profitable for them
Most likely. But at the end of the day would I sooner have a company that is profitable enough to stay in business and not collapse like Bulb, etc. but but still offers cheaper prices and better customer service than any of the other energy utility companies - sure I do.
MrJuice said:
the other thing is when they added 2p per kwh to the price of leccy. I think there was an increase in gas too.
Have a look for something called the spark gap (no, not to do with gapping your spark plugs). Basically the price of electricity is bound to the price of gas. So if one goes up, the other will. https://www.lowcarbonhub.org/p/spark-gap is a reasonable explainer on it. Octopus are fairly vocal in trying to get rid of this as well as other crap things like the way the standing charge is calculated.Trustmeimadoctor said:
Do you mean opus energy?
Makes sense. https://www.opusenergy.com/Maybe switch to Octopus instead?
mrmistoffelees said:
Have a look for something called the spark gap (no, not to do with gapping your spark plugs). Basically the price of electricity is bound to the price of gas. So if one goes up, the other will. https://www.lowcarbonhub.org/p/spark-gap is a reasonable explainer on it. Octopus are fairly vocal in trying to get rid of this as well as other crap things like the way the standing charge is calculated.
That's a bit of a misnomer and it's not as simple as what Octopus make out. The spark SPREAD is the profit made by a gas power station for buying gas and selling power. Similarly there is a dark spread for coal power stations.
Electricity is priced (as all commodities are) via an auction system, with the price for everyone being the top price someone will pay for the power. The same is true of oil, gas, coal, wheat, whatever. When you see the price of Brent being $80/bl, that is because someone will buy there and someone will sell there. Nobody will pay $81, but any offers below $80 are bought. If there is more sellers than buyers then the sellers will sell at $79, and suddenly that is the price. If someone will then sell at $78, but nobody will buy above $75 then someone has to move, up or down, to trade. Either the buyers move up, the sellers move down, or both move a bit and it trades at $76.5.
Normally the "marginal unit" of power is produced by gas power stations. That is to say that once you buy all the wind power which will generate at low prices, and the solar power which will also generate at low prices, you still need a few gas power stations to make up the difference. So if the price needs to be 15p/kwh to bring on a gas powered station the market will trade up to there - generators are not going to run at a loss.
However, take tomorrow across the overnight and tomorrow afternoon, prices are trading negative because all the wind and solar and imports will sell at low prices and so the prices are clearly a long long way below where gas fired power plants would come on.
So, while Octopus might be very vocal about getting rid of it, all that really tells me is either they dont understand how markets work, or they're just pushing PR pieces to look to good to their customers because they know it's a vote winner and will never happen.
Or to put it another way, it's a bit like Octopus selling electricity to you at once price, and me to another price, simply because what we are going to use it for. It's complete nonsense and would make the electricity market impossible, or at the very least, would have massive unintended consequences and huge inefficiencies in plant running order.
EDIT - the article you've linked to essentially says that the easiest way to reduce the spread between gas and power prices is to add some of the costs added to gas generation onto gas prices as well. For example if we produce 1t of CO2 at our power plants we have to pay about £45 for that, which is included in the cost of generation and therefore the cost we sell power at. The article is arguing for those costs to also be added to the gas people burn at home in their boilers as a way of reducing the spread, even though it will add costs for most people.
Edited by Condi on Wednesday 3rd July 19:13
It's a strange one for me today. Lots of negative Agile prices but I've also just had an email advising of a Power up between 3 and 4 today which will give me free electricity. The way this usually works is you get a credit a few weeks later for anything over normal usage. They also recently changed the process so you are automatically opted in to all power ups.
The issue is that at the time of the power up, prices are already negative. If following the usual process, the free electricity is actually going to cost me extra and I'll have an additional debit in a few weeks to cover the difference between negative and free.
Realistically it's going to be pennies either way but an interesting conundrum.
The issue is that at the time of the power up, prices are already negative. If following the usual process, the free electricity is actually going to cost me extra and I'll have an additional debit in a few weeks to cover the difference between negative and free.
Realistically it's going to be pennies either way but an interesting conundrum.
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